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Tech ex invis frame traps / mixups

Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Noob
So i was dabbling in training mode with ares and i came to the realization that the recovery frames on his ex invis is 14 frames, meaning he most certainly can gain significant frame advantage cancelling into, this would give him INVISIBLE frame traps.... this would be good for setting up knockdown pressure.

um... this sounds really broken.

Somberness
 
themule

themule

Noob
You can't cancel into MB Phase Shifter, only the regular version. Pretty sure this applies to all moves that require you to MB before the move starts.

It might be good for other set ups. I haven't messed around with it a ton, but I occasionally use it when they look like they're baiting a teleport and then throw a fireball or trait or use a godsmack to catch them while they're pressing button because the start up animation looked similar to teleports and even if they do react correctly it's usually safe because the recovery is so fast.
 
themule

themule

Noob
Immortal Reaver said:
You can cancel into a MB PS.
Click to expand...
Thank you for pointing this out

I was inputting it wrong. You have to wait for the move to come out, then hit MB. I was dialing it all in because that's how I did it when I performed the move on its own, I didn't realize that you did actually have to get the move out before you MB'd it.

This is definitely something that should be looked into. Because the MB activates after the move itself starts it means the total recovery is actually more than 14 frames, but it probably still leaves Ares with frame traps. Invisible frame traps!
I know at least a couple of Ares strings appear to have a cancel advantage of over +20. Time to hit the lab.
 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Noob
Yeah, I'm surprised no one's pointed it out yet but the '14 frame recovery' on the mb starts after a number frames from the normal version. So actual recovery is in at least the 20's and maybe not any faster than the regular version.

I can't find any frame traps off this. It's safe after 3d2 and maybe a couple other strings but doesn't appear to give any advantage. Might be good occasionally to throw off the opponent or something, but it's not anything you're going to be able to base much offense on.

WaywardStranger has mentioned invis frame traps off 112, but I think that was on hit
 
WaywardStranger

WaywardStranger

Boob
I haven't found any frame traps on block using the mb invis. 112~mb invis is a frame trap in the corner when it hits a standing opponent.

Invisibility is most useful to me after F23 on an airborne opponent. After f23~invis opponent can't jump out of a linked GS; mind games ensue.

Back to work.
 
InFlames

InFlames

dead

Combo shown:

3,D2~MB Invisibility-3,D2,D4-F3-D3

As D3 is a hard knockdown, the opponent cannot tech-roll therefore a wake-up attack is their only way out. MB Invisibility gives numerous options to trick your opponent in this situation.

Options after D3 in video order:

-Godsmack (Close) - MB for armor and full combo
-Godsmack (Normal) - MB for armor and full combo
-NJ1 into combo/blockstring
-Cross-up J2 into combo/blockstring
-Low Mix-up (any choice)
-Overhead Mix-up (any choice)
-MB B3/F3 to continue pressure
-Throw (forgot to add in video)

F2,3~Teleport is also very good combo-ender while invisible:
4x4lo8o said:
I've been messing with invis in the corner for awhile. There's this set up you can use while you're invisible with teleport, where it teleports you into the corner but they bounce back into the corner. The teleport animation makes it pretty clear you teleported into the corner, but if you're invisible they have no way of knowing they ended up back in the corner.

So something like
F23~mb invis, d1~d4, j2, f23~teleport
leaves you invisible and the opponent thinks you're on wrong side.
Click to expand...
I've tried it and it has a lot of potential.
 
Roko1985

Roko1985

Put down the controller and run!
InFlames said:
Combo shown:

3,D2~MB Invisibility-3,D2,D4-F3-D3

As D3 is a hard knockdown, the opponent cannot tech-roll therefore a wake-up attack is their only way out. MB Invisibility gives numerous options to trick your opponent in this situation.

Options after D3 in video order:

-Godsmack (Close) - MB for armor and full combo
-Godsmack (Normal) - MB for armor and full combo
-NJ1 into combo/blockstring
-Cross-up J2 into combo/blockstring
-Low Mix-up (any choice)
-Overhead Mix-up (any choice)
-MB B3 to continue pressure
-Throw (forgot to add in video)

F2,3~Teleport is also very good combo-ender while invisible:

I've tried it and it has a lot of potential.
Click to expand...
I didn't pick him yet, but I love that kind of stuff. I will try him for some time to see if he fits me. Nice find man!
 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Noob
Other ideas:

3d2~MB Invisibility, 3d2~D4, j2, 112/123~teleport - 112 leaves them in the corner, 123 puts you in the corner

3d2~MB Invisibility, 3d2~u4 - standing reset
 
Lt. Boxy Angelman

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
In a game where surviving oftentimes comes down to guessing your way out of a 50/50, I don't know how people can underplay a trick like Ares' Invisibility.

Great stuff.
 
Hellbringer

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Another thing i noticed.
When you do his regular corner bnb where you use f23, f23, you can do mb invisibilty after the second f23 and hit 112 after the mb invis. wich leaves you open for alot of setups such as 112~teleport and your still invisible.
 
InFlames

InFlames

dead
Dislexsik said:
Another thing i noticed.
When you do his regular corner bnb where you use f23, f23, you can do mb invisibilty after the second f23 and hit 112 after the mb invis. wich leaves you open for alot of setups such as 112~teleport and your still invisible.
Click to expand...
Can you do Sword after 112? This could increase the damage.
 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Noob
3d2, f23~invis, 112~teleport or 3d2, f23~invis, 112~d4, j2, 112~teleport

You can vary the timing on the 112 to control which side of them you end up on. If they try to tech roll they always roll towards the corner. You can follow up with a nj2 and they have to guess which side you're on or get hit for another 40+% combo. They can try to wake up, but it should flip their controls so unless they have an option select wake up that beats neutral jumps(Deathstroke's the only one that comes to mind, and I think nj beats Sword Spin) that might not help a whole lot.

You still have enough advantage after the teleport to go for any of the options listed in the op. You basically have a 4 way mix up between overhead from the left, overhead from the right, low(even if you don't have sword you get pressure and frame traps from d1 on hit, and they still don't know which side you're on or what they got hit by), and throw(it's probably impossible to tech this throw on reaction)
 
Hellbringer

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
4x4lo8o said:
3d2, f23~invis, 112~teleport or 3d2, f23~invis, 112~d4, j2, 112~teleport

You can vary the timing on the 112 to control which side of them you end up on. If they try to tech roll they always roll towards the corner. You can follow up with a nj2 and they have to guess which side you're on or get hit for another 40+% combo. They can try to wake up, but it should flip their controls so unless they have an option select wake up that beats neutral jumps(Deathstroke's the only one that comes to mind, and I think nj beats Sword Spin) that might not help a whole lot.

You still have enough advantage after the teleport to go for any of the options listed in the op. You basically have a 4 way mix up between overhead from the left, overhead from the right, low(even if you don't have sword you get pressure and frame traps from d1 on hit, and they still don't know which side you're on or what they got hit by), and throw(it's probably impossible to tech this throw on reaction)
Click to expand...
Nice.
It works the same when you start combo with F3. Just tested it.
f3, f23~mbdb1. 112d4, j2, 112~teleport 41%

Edit: also f23, f23~mbdb1, 112d4, j2, 112~teleport 47%
 
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