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Match-up Discussion Cyrax Matchup Discussion Thread

Spletty

Grandmaster
How does Liu fair up against this robot? I'd say 6-4 for Cyrax at worst. I only fear Cyrax's resets, everything else is somewhat easy to get in. I don't know how Cyrax is up close, but Liu holds his own up close. Liu has decent zoning, but I wouldn't try zone Cryrax. (only because I have a little problem with iafb, if someone could peform perfect iafbs it'd be different) Most Cyrax players I meet online just sit back shooting nets hoping for a lucky shot. Don't get me wrong though, I respect and fear Cyrax. I espicially like the ones who don't do resets. (the unavoidable ones, not the "me standing up" ones)
I've been playing cyrax a lot lately and my roommate says he's my best now. He plays kang, raiden, and sub zero, and liu is the only one he can beat me with and I destroy the rest. Id say its 5-5 or 6-4 liu just because of the super intense mix ups, low pressure, and he stuffs all of cyrax's wakeups

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Spletty

Grandmaster
Is there a more updated veesion of this? The one boxy robot matchup special was about the only thing that's recent.. someone link me to a current matchup chart

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TheChad_87

Bad Reputation
If I were to take a stab at it, Id say:

Baraka 6-4
Cyber Sub-Zero 5-5
Ermac 5-5
Freddie 5-5
Jade 5-5
Jax 5-5
Johnny Cage 5-5
Kabal 3-7
Kano 5-5
Kenshi 4-6
Kitana 4-6
Kung Lao 5-5
Liu Kang 5-5
Mileena 6-4
Nightwolf 5-5
Noob Saibot 6-4
Quan Chi 6-4
Raiden 4-6
Rain 5-5
Reptile 5-5
Scorpion 5-5
Sektor 4-6
Shang Tsung 5-5
Sheeva 6-4
Sindel 5-5
Skarlet 5-5
Smoke 5-5
Sonya 4-6
Stryker 5-5
Sub Zero 5-5

That would make his bad MUs:
Kabal, Kenshi, Kitana, Raiden, Sektor, Sonya

and I'm not sure about Kenshi or Raiden. Could be 5-5s.

It's pretty similar to a list by Mustard with the exception of Reptile (He says 4-6), Kano (4-6 again), and Kitana (He says 5-5). Also, I have Kabal at 3-7. He has it at 4-6.
Most of my experience is online. Not gonna lie. But I do have some offline as well. So, take that with a grain of salt.
 

NariTuba

disMember
So how can I make Cyrax VS Kabal a liveable fight?

There HAS to be a way.
Honest to god, if we are not talking about Cyblax I dont think there is. Even Cyblax has a hard time, I just dont think robo can really hang in that matchup.

Ive been playing this match A LOT offline vs a hitbox kabal recently. I have a chance to beat him only if I make a LOT of correct reads in a row or when he gets bored of zoning me out and comes in to go toe to toe.

The problem is he dictates the pace, so he decides when you need to make those correct reads, which makes it that much harder. It sucks because at some points he will stop zoning and come in, then Ill start making good reads and / or outplay him; and when the match comes down to the wire and it LOOKS like it could go either way he just pulls the trigger on the win button to remind me that its all a mirage.

Im gonna start working hard on Cyblax, Ill let you know how it goes :)
 
Reactions: HAN

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Honest to god, if we are not talking about Cyblax I dont think there is. Even Cyblax has a hard time, I just dont think robo can really hang in that matchup.

Ive been playing this match A LOT offline vs a hitbox kabal recently. I have a chance to beat him only if I make a LOT of correct reads in a row or when he gets bored of zoning me out and comes in to go toe to toe.

The problem is he dictates the pace, so he decides when you need to make those correct reads, which makes it that much harder. It sucks because at some points he will stop zoning and come in, then Ill start making good reads and / or outplay him; and when the match comes down to the wire and it LOOKS like it could go either way he just pulls the trigger on the win button to remind me that its all a mirage.

Im gonna start working hard on Cyblax, Ill let you know how it goes :)
Sounds about right. I can't remember the last time I played Blax, but this along with Kenshi are the 2 fights I always figured I'd absolutely need him for.

Time to put my dreads on...
 

TheChad_87

Bad Reputation
Yeah ... I always switch to Mileena for Kabal ... -_-. I think we're just gonna have to be content to call this one a wash. I mean, if he goes full on idiot and dashes into a block, we get that big punish, but that doesn't happen very often.

We have no armor to get out of pressure. Really don't have an answer to his zoning.
I've used X-Ray some in the match and it actually helps with the pressure escape part, but you have to be on point with it since the angle is a lil strange. It also helps to be able to follow-up with a 12xxNet (not the easiest thing to do).

Note that I dont mess with Cyblax at all, so I couldnt say anything for him, but with Rax, it feels pretty rough. Catching him in a reset is no guarantee either as by the time you actually land one, he's likely already done >50% to you anyway, so we're just evening the score.

Idk. Just my thoughts on it thus far. Tbh, I dont have a ton of experience with high-level Kabal, but this is just what I think.
 

GGA HAN

Galloping Ghost Arcade
Baraka 6-4
Cyber Sub-Zero 6-4
Ermac 6-4
Freddie 5-5
Jade 6-4
Jax 5-5
Johnny Cage 5-5
Kabal 3-7
Kano 6-4
Kenshi 4-6
Kitana 4-6
Kung Lao 5-5
Liu Kang 5-5
Mileena 5-5
Nightwolf 6-4
Noob Saibot 6-4
Quan Chi 6-4
Raiden 4-6
Rain 6-4
Reptile 5-5
Scorpion 6-4
Sektor 5-5
Shang Tsung 6-4
Sheeva 7-3
Sindel 5-5
Skarlet 5-5
Smoke 4-6
Sonya 4-6
Stryker 6-4
Sub Zero 6-4

This is my newest revision of Cyrax's MU's, not using human cyrax for any matches. With all the recent discoveries (breaker traps, higher damage resets, ect...) I gave Cyrax some more points and have changed some of my previous 5-5's to 6-4's in Cyrax's favor. After playing Perfect Legend's Raiden, Kung Lao, and Kabal a bunch over the last few days here at GGA, I am content saying that his only nearly unwinnable match might be Kabal.

Questions, comments, criticisms...?
 

NariTuba

disMember
Questions, comments, criticisms...?
I pretty much agree with everything here, good stuff Han.

Just for fun, Ill mention 2 matchups:

Kenshi: 5-5

You can play footsies midscreen because of how bad trades are for him. Kenshi doesnt have good mobility, you can make him move with the bombs. Far bomb makes him walk into sc/net trade zone. He wins the zoning obviously but if you put stuff on the screen every chance you get in a smart way, you will catch him. All you need to do is catch him twice. In the miraculous case he has no meter you pressure his high hitbox to death.

Liu Kang: 6-4

The zoning is not really a problem. The low fireball gives you a chance to attack, it has bad recovery. If they use it scout it, if they dont just duck your way in. Upclose is pretty even. His mixups are better but they dont completely make up for the damage. Id say its slight advantage Cyrax.

what do you think?
 
Reactions: HAN

GGA HAN

Galloping Ghost Arcade
I pretty much agree with everything here, good stuff Han.

Just for fun, Ill mention 2 matchups:

Kenshi: 5-5

You can play footsies midscreen because of how bad trades are for him. Kenshi doesnt have good mobility, you can make him move with the bombs. Far bomb makes him walk into sc/net trade zone. He wins the zoning obviously but if you put stuff on the screen every chance you get in a smart way, you will catch him. All you need to do is catch him twice. In the miraculous case he has no meter you pressure his high hitbox to death.

Liu Kang: 6-4

The zoning is not really a problem. The low fireball gives you a chance to attack, it has bad recovery. If they use it scout it, if they dont just duck your way in. Upclose is pretty even. His mixups are better but they dont completely make up for the damage. Id say its slight advantage Cyrax.

what do you think?
I'm thinking both of these matches could be debated, but the fact that the GGA and chicago area have no dedicated Liu Kang mains makes my judgement sway towards what Krayzie thinks on Liu being pretty tough for Cyrax. He plays Xbladez and Shoryuken, 2 awesome Liu Kangs more than any other Cyrax, which is why I've leaned the way I did.

Kenshi I used to think was even. It might be...I ran a pretty long set with Pig Of The Hut in Raleigh and had mixed results with trying to put bombs on the screen, and the close range was literally dominated by Kenshi with spirit charge. By the time you think "I should put a net out, I think he's going to SC" one has already hit you before your second back motion of the net. If you can maintain a life lead and force him to come to you, it is very manageable. Maybe we'll have to defer to a Kenshi main like Pig to give us some input on this one, but 4-6 is only a slight advantage, remember.
 

Krayzie

Safeties disabled. Krayzie mode engaged!
I'm thinking both of these matches could be debated, but the fact that the GGA and chicago area have no dedicated Liu Kang mains makes my judgement sway towards what Krayzie thinks on Liu being pretty tough for Cyrax. He plays Xbladez and Shoryuken, 2 awesome Liu Kangs more than any other Cyrax, which is why I've leaned the way I did.

Kenshi I used to think was even. It might be...I ran a pretty long set with Pig Of The Hut in Raleigh and had mixed results with trying to put bombs on the screen, and the close range was literally dominated by Kenshi with spirit charge. By the time you think "I should put a net out, I think he's going to SC" one has already hit you before your second back motion of the net. If you can maintain a life lead and force him to come to you, it is very manageable. Maybe we'll have to defer to a Kenshi main like Pig to give us some input on this one, but 4-6 is only a slight advantage, remember.
The best way to beat Liu Kang is to be as lame as a Sub-Zero player, and even then Liu Kang has the advantage.

Cyrax needs to constantly break, so meter management becomes difficult. You cant constantly keep bombs and nets on the screen to make meter because of the constant fire balls on the screen. Don't get me wrong, you do need the occasional far bombs to close the distance, but you have to be careful and understand your spacing. Close bombs don't work because F12, B312, and 213 advance forward and are 0 on block. Not to mention his fastest jab starts off at 8 frames, and is one of the best anti-airs in the game.

Once you finally catch Liu Kang, he can break free and zone you out again. B3 eats D4, so you cant just use that like in the Kabal match-up. Basically just play it safe and don't make too many mistakes.

Kenshi... There is no need for bombs honestly. Stay just outside of his spirit charge range, and trade with nets.

Tele-Fury is not a good idea against Cyrax because he is opened up for 51 frames, net comes out at 18, Tele-Fury comes out at 21. Kenshi has to think twice about Spirit Charge since you will be just outside of that range. If he advances, he will have to deal with his pressure. If Cyrax gets his hands on Kenshi, he can actually use tools that wouldn't normally work on other characters, such as 334, which is +5 on block. This is due to his huge hitbox. The bigger the hitbox, the more time in the sandbox for Cyrax to play in.

Now, think of the execution difference in this situation. Kenshi has an 8 frame spirit charge, and Cyrax has a 9 frame Command Grab... wait, what? Well how is this possible Krayzie? Well, If you're +5 after 334, you can comand grab Kenshi before he can advance. He either lets go of block, and deals with 12 net, or blocks too long and eats a command grab.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that Kenshi is dragging himself to the wall as he tries to zone you out. Now, in the corner, Kenshi is in trouble because of 334. There is less pushback due to the wall, so you can continue pressuring all day.

Think of this match as an old western stand-off. Only difference is Kenshi has a BB Gun, and Cyrax... Well you know... I reckon Pig Of The Hut wont use Kenshi against me at MLG, would he? :)

[EDIT]

HAN - Also, I wouldn't be so quick to reflect a net if I was Kenshi.

I find it hilarious that I keep giving hints at this, and nobody asks me wtf I'm talking about... lol

I've kept this Cyrax secret for months already.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
The best way to beat Liu Kang is to be as lame as a Sub-Zero player, and even then Liu Kang has the advantage.

Cyrax needs to constantly break, so meter management becomes difficult. You cant constantly keep bombs and nets on the screen to make meter because of the constant fire balls on the screen. Don't get me wrong, you do need the occasional far bombs to close the distance, but you have to be careful and understand your spacing. Close bombs don't work because F12, B312, and 213 advance forward and are 0 on block. Not to mention his fastest jab starts off at 8 frames, and is one of the best anti-airs in the game.

Once you finally catch Liu Kang, he can break free and zone you out again. B3 eats D4, so you cant just use that like in the Kabal match-up. Basically just play it safe and don't make too many mistakes.

Kenshi... There is no need for bombs honestly. Stay just outside of his spirit charge range, and trade with nets.

Tele-Fury is not a good idea against Cyrax because he is opened up for 51 frames, net comes out at 18, Tele-Fury comes out at 21. Kenshi has to think twice about Spirit Charge since you will be just outside of that range. If he advances, he will have to deal with his pressure. If Cyrax gets his hands on Kenshi, he can actually use tools that wouldn't normally work on other characters, such as 334, which is +5 on block. This is due to his huge hitbox. The bigger the hitbox, the more time in the sandbox for Cyrax to play in.

Now, think of the execution difference in this situation. Kenshi has an 8 frame spirit charge, and Cyrax has a 9 frame Command Grab... wait, what? Well how is this possible Krayzie? Well, If you're +5 after 334, you can comand grab Kenshi before he can advance. He either lets go of block, and deals with 12 net, or blocks too long and eats a command grab.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that Kenshi is dragging himself to the wall as he tries to zone you out. Now, in the corner, Kenshi is in trouble because of 334. There is less pushback due to the wall, so you can continue pressuring all day.

Think of this match as an old western stand-off. Only difference is Kenshi has a BB Gun, and Cyrax... Well you know... I reckon Pig Of The Hut wont use Kenshi against me at MLG, would he? :)

[EDIT]

HAN - Also, I wouldn't be so quick to reflect a net if I was Kenshi.

I find it hilarious that I keep giving hints at this, and nobody asks me wtf I'm talking about... lol

I've kept this Cyrax secret for months already.
I'm thinking both of these matches could be debated, but the fact that the GGA and chicago area have no dedicated Liu Kang mains makes my judgement sway towards what Krayzie thinks on Liu being pretty tough for Cyrax. He plays Xbladez and Shoryuken, 2 awesome Liu Kangs more than any other Cyrax, which is why I've leaned the way I did.

Kenshi I used to think was even. It might be...I ran a pretty long set with Pig Of The Hut in Raleigh and had mixed results with trying to put bombs on the screen, and the close range was literally dominated by Kenshi with spirit charge. By the time you think "I should put a net out, I think he's going to SC" one has already hit you before your second back motion of the net. If you can maintain a life lead and force him to come to you, it is very manageable. Maybe we'll have to defer to a Kenshi main like Pig to give us some input on this one, but 4-6 is only a slight advantage, remember.
I apologize first off because im not going to go in depth.

Id say the mu is 5-5 as long as kenshi understand when he can and cannot do certain telekinesis moves. Meter management game is huge and his footsies, movement and spacing must be on point. One mistake is a death sentence.

I think Han and Krayzie are easily some of the best cyrax players out there and i feel if we ran 10 games on any day it'd end 5-5 in most cases. sometimes 4-6/ 6-4
 

GGA HAN

Galloping Ghost Arcade
I apologize first off because im not going to go in depth.

Id say the mu is 5-5 as long as kenshi understand when he can and cannot do certain telekinesis moves. Meter management game is huge and his footsies, movement and spacing must be on point. One mistake is a death sentence.

I think Han and Krayzie are easily some of the best cyrax players out there and i feel if we ran 10 games on any day it'd end 5-5 in most cases. sometimes 4-6/ 6-4
I am going to revise my list and change it back to 5-5; when I listed it as 4-6 before I don't think I gave enough credit to the player, in this case Pig. I've had pretty good success against other great Kenshi's and because Pig is the man and nearly impossible to beat I was blinded temporarily. I'll be doing a revised chart soon.
 

GGA HAN

Galloping Ghost Arcade
My new MU chart, I'll edit later with explanations and remarks...

Baraka 6-4
Cyber Sub-Zero 6-4
Ermac 6-4
Freddie 5-5
Jade 7-3
Jax 5-5
Johnny Cage 6-4
Kabal 3-7
Kano 6-4
Kenshi 5-5
Kitana 4-6
Kung Lao 6-4
Liu Kang 5-5
Mileena 5-5
Nightwolf 6-4
Noob Saibot 6-4
Quan Chi 6-4
Raiden 5-5
Rain 6-4
Reptile 6-4
Scorpion 6-4
Sektor 5-5
Shang Tsung 7-3
Sheeva 7-3
Sindel 5-5
Skarlet 5-5
Smoke 4-6
Sonya 4-6
Stryker 6-4
Sub Zero 6-4
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
what kind of character would u classify cyrax as anyways? rushdown? footsies? zoner? Damage? xD
 

GGA HAN

Galloping Ghost Arcade
what kind of character would u classify cyrax as anyways? rushdown? footsies? zoner? Damage? xD
Its hard to classify him. He can zone, like for example vs Cage, but shouldn't against any decent anti-zoner like Sektor. He can play footsies with his gdlk d4, like he should against those he can't zone. He can decently rush down, with his 1,2 or 1,2 pressure into cmnd grabs, overhead buzzsaw and ex-ragdoll and other tools. He is basically the swiss army knife of MK characters...but instead of a small pocket knife blade of a swiss army knife, he has all the tools plus a nuke as his knife when he touches you.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
Its hard to classify him. He can zone, like for example vs Cage, but shouldn't against any decent anti-zoner like Sektor. He can play footsies with his gdlk d4, like he should against those he can't zone. He can decently rush down, with his 1,2 or 1,2 pressure into cmnd grabs, overhead buzzsaw and ex-ragdoll and other tools. He is basically the swiss army knife of MK characters...but instead of a small pocket knife blade of a swiss army knife, he has all the tools plus a nuke as his knife when he touches you.
why 12 specifically, what about 11 or 21 or 33?
 

GGA HAN

Galloping Ghost Arcade
3,3 doesn't give you (well, me - because I'm old) enough time to hit confirm into a net. For punishment though, 33 is def. more reliable than 1,1, 1,2 or 2,1. The 1,2 string is pretty awesome because the hitbox of the 2 in the string has a hidden use of covering your back, kind of like subzero's 2,2 string. If you are applying pressure and your opponent jumps over you to cross up, it will usually hit them, even if you're facing the wrong way. Pretty cheap stuff!

Edit: Here's an example of the 1,(2) hitting behind the back. It's just another thing he obviously needs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9i0--SaVFNw#t=980s

watch around 17:00
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
all this cyrax bullshit is temtping me to use him again...even tho i dropped him cuz i felt his bs was bogus......x.x....but then again i have been spending an awful lot of time in the training mode with Kabal....