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AssassiN

AssassiN

Noob
Red X said:
How do you deal noob saibot and how do you counter low pokes like mileenas or smoke or ermac its annoying!!
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Against Noob just a lot of pokes and actually use sweep for his upknee, you don't outzone Noob.
You just gotta get close, when you get close Noob Saibot players like to spam upknee. When one whiffs just come in with a 213 and end the combo with a sweep to keep him close.

Against low pokes => jump-kicks.
 
Red X

Red X

Noob
AssassiN[be] said:
Against Noob just a lot of pokes and actually use sweep for his upknee, you don't outzone Noob.
You just gotta get close, when you get close Noob Saibot players like to spam upknee. When one whiffs just come in with a 213 and end the combo with a sweep to keep him close.

Against low pokes => jump-kicks.
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ya them low pokes online play is killing me. After they do their strings they low poke afterwards. I try to low poke counter after they low poke me but I get stuff. I need to study frame data but I have to study for my Job Test first :(.

So crossover jump kick is the only way you can deal with annoying low pokes?
 
AK Gookus

AK Gookus

Slant-eyed Nightwing
Has anyone else ever gotten only a 24% X-Ray? Seen it about 6 times now. Is it because they're jumping out at some point? Or just lame buggy shit...like Stryker's armor?

Edit: Tested it. At max range, only one foot hits. Losing 6% on the first hit.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
So I have been messing around with Dragon Stance and I think I may have found a use for it. Since Liu does not have great footsies I find that dragon stance is good because it backs Liu up to try and make the opponent whiff or dash forward. If you do dragon stance low fireball it backs you up even more and forces your opponent to either block or get hit to give you advantage. It seems like a good tool to get out of pressure with, like on Johnny Cage for example.

Is there a way to blow this up or reason why it is not used?
 
AssassiN

AssassiN

Noob
Zoidberg747 said:
So I have been messing around with Dragon Stance and I think I may have found a use for it. Since Liu does not have great footsies I find that dragon stance is good because it backs Liu up to try and make the opponent whiff or dash forward. If you do dragon stance low fireball it backs you up even more and forces your opponent to either block or get hit to give you advantage. It seems like a good tool to get out of pressure with, like on Johnny Cage for example.

Is there a way to blow this up or reason why it is not used?
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Pretty much every high level Liu Kang has been using it for that reason :p.
His B1 is excellent for footsies and punishing whiffed attacks :).

Reason for not using it: making the wrong reads or playing against characters with fast special moves(like Raiden, Kabal, ...) that can blow that shit up.
 
Squeaker101

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
Zoidberg747 said:
So I have been messing around with Dragon Stance and I think I may have found a use for it. Since Liu does not have great footsies I find that dragon stance is good because it backs Liu up to try and make the opponent whiff or dash forward. If you do dragon stance low fireball it backs you up even more and forces your opponent to either block or get hit to give you advantage. It seems like a good tool to get out of pressure with, like on Johnny Cage for example.

Is there a way to blow this up or reason why it is not used?
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I know someone who only does DS into Low fireball, or DS 1 (AA), and it's oddly effective. I've never really used it to make someone whiff anything, I didn't think you'd go back far enough. (Sonya MS does)

As you probably already know, you can't block during DS, and you have to wait a bit after canceling it. Some people can just armor through what your gonna do, or just use a fast advancing special. (Reptile's dash, Jax's punch, Sonya's EX Kartwheel, Raiden's superman etc.). I guess I'd recommend using DS once people start respecting you, your pressure, your zoning, and respect your options.

I think only a few people use DS effectively.
 
AssassiN

AssassiN

Noob
Squeaker101 said:
I know someone who only does DS into Low fireball, or DS 1 (AA), and it's oddly effective. I've never really used it to make someone whiff anything, I didn't think you'd go back far enough. (Sonya MS does)

As you probably already know, you can't block during DS, and you have to wait a bit after canceling it. Some people can just armor through what your gonna do, or just use a fast advancing special. (Reptile's dash, Jax's punch, Sonya's EX Kartwheel, Raiden's superman etc.). I guess I'd recommend using DS once people start respecting you, your pressure, your zoning, and respect your options.

I think only a few people use DS effectively.
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That's why you read your opponent :p.
For Jax you pretty much just crouch and punish it with 213.
For Sonya you do NJP, for Raiden you jump backwards.
And the list goes on and on.
You can avoid every special move in MK(except for Sektor's teleport, maybe I just haven't found it yet), just gotta know what to do against what.

The zoning characters will pretty much say "fuck that" and continue zoning.
It's only useful against characters that don't zone.
 
Squeaker101

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
AssassiN[be] said:
That's why you read your opponent :p.
For Jax you pretty much just crouch and punish it with 213.
For Sonya you do NJP, for Raiden you jump backwards.
And the list goes on and on.
You can avoid every special move in MK(except for Sektor's teleport, maybe I just haven't found it yet), just gotta know what to do against what.

The zoning characters will pretty much say "fuck that" and continue zoning.
It's only useful against characters that don't zone.
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I meant from Dragon Stance... the moment you go in DS they can do all those on reaction. You might be able to stop them with a fireball, but that depends if they EX'd or not.
 
AssassiN

AssassiN

Noob
Squeaker101 said:
I meant from Dragon Stance... the moment you go in DS they can do all those on reaction. You might be able to stop them with a fireball, but that depends if they EX'd or not.
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If you go into DS, you pretty much made up your mind if you are gonna cancel or do something.
You're not gonna wait for the other player to do something :p.

By the time they inputted it you'll have canceled the DS already.
 
Squeaker101

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
AssassiN[be] said:
If you go into DS, you pretty much made up your mind if you are gonna cancel or do something.
You're not gonna wait for the other player to do something :p.

By the time they inputted it you'll have canceled the DS already.
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I'm just sayin' if your opponents reaction is fast enough, they'll beat you to it. DS cancels are great, but I'll only use them if my opponent respects my options.

You know you're stuff, so I won't argue. I'm not that great in my fundamentals anyway, so I'm glad I have you, MK Peanuts, and XBlades around.
 
AK Gookus

AK Gookus

Slant-eyed Nightwing
Most of the posts so far have good points regarding Dragon Stance, the notes I have on it are
Dragon Stance's start up is 18f and options 1 and 4 are both 0 on block.
1, 12f, can be used as an anti air if you react well, can be used to punish Balled State well. Makes a lot of tele's whiff and launch them
2, 14f, never use this. -10 on block and you just scream punish me. Usually hit when pressing 2 for Dragon Stance
3, 25f, overhead, can hit jumping opponents but is very punishable. Should be used maybe once a match.
4, 15f, goes into a sweeping motion, his range reaches further than his normal sweep, can make some moves whiff

You can also cancel Dragon Stance into Specials.
Cancelling into either Fireballs can cause some mind games with your opponent, as in, low,high, or no shot. You can also cancel into exDragon Kick after baiting your opponent to trade projectiles. Cancelling into Parry will back you up a bit and make a lot of moves whiff, so be sure it'll still touch you if you're going for a Parry. I've never really cancelled it into Bike Kick, cause I've always dash cancelled out of it, dunno if you can for sure. But if you are going to commit to a cancel, I tend to go with b1xxLowFB as a whiff punisher or anti-air combo with standing 2, f12, b312, f24xxBike Kick (29%)

Some other things instances I've used Dragon Stance are:
After I launch them with b312 in the corner (Option 1), after landing a NJP counter, (Option 1), After knocking them down and I believe I will either beat their wake up or they respect my options, I will Dragon Stance dash cancel forward into another b312 starter and catch. (This is when you can mix it up with your one use of Option 3 for 14% and possible win the round/match)

If you ever do master the cancels into stance switch for blocking moves and punishing accordingly, I believe his entire rushdown and mind games increase so much more. Feel free to pick and blow up any of my notes.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
So why do people say not to use his 1,1,1 string? I love this string, and most likely I just get away with it playing expert ladder. I dont really get why some say not to use it when it is neutral on block and has decent pushback. I find it can set up a mixup with throw, F3, B312 or f12. What is it about this string that I am missing?
 
Squeaker101

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
Zoidberg747 said:
So why do people say not to use his 1,1,1 string? I love this string, and most likely I just get away with it playing expert ladder. I dont really get why some say not to use it when it is neutral on block and has decent pushback. I find it can set up a mixup with throw, F3, B312 or f12. What is it about this string that I am missing?
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Hits high, won't even hit a ducking opponent that's blocking. (I believe 2 does) Can be poked out of and uppercutted, it might work if you delay a bit. (as people might expect a f3)

You can oddly enough cancel out of 112. (eg. 112 low fireball) as people will probably try and punish you after 112. (might even be able to do Bicycle Kicks)
 
Squeaker101

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
How many different ways are there to do iafb? I've been trying to do a 360 on the d-pad as quick as I can, and having little success.

Is it wrong that I ask a question in my own thread?
 
EGP_Shoryuken

EGP_Shoryuken

Noob
Squeaker101 said:
How many different ways are there to do iafb? I've been trying to do a 360 on the d-pad as quick as I can, and having little success.

Is it wrong that I ask a question in my own thread?
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I tap D/F then U/B/F. If you do a IAF from a crouching position then you get a head shot almost every time. Most ppl whiff the first one then get a rhythm going. IMO the first one is the most important one, it usually stuffs out anything they try to do unless its an armored special.
 
AYSAMO

AYSAMO

Noob
EGP_Shoryuken said:
I tap D/F then U/B/F. If you do a IAF from a crouching position then you get a head shot almost every time. Most ppl whiff the first one then get a rhythm going. IMO the first one is the most important one, it usually stuffs out anything they try to do unless its an armored special.
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Interesting, Ill have to try that out.
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Does he have any high execution stuff? I only see people mash that kick punch punch combo, no idea of the input, he never interested me until recently. I wonder if he's got anything going for him because to be frank here, I've always found him lame that all you need to do is mash three buttons to get 30+ damage.
 
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