Match-up Discussion Kitana Matchup Discussion Thread

[Jimmypotato]

Me and @Mr.Mileena are figuring out a way for her to escape crossups. So far the best way we've found was to just simply dash under the cross up attempt. He was also using square wave a bit and it worked quite a few times if timed right. I was using dash under 21 or dash under ex fan lift and it works as well, but its risky.

And yes, kenshi will forever be a cunt in the princess's eyes.

yah man recently I have been putting thought into Cross up defence as well, it can be a real bitch,

if you make a great read nothing beats 3 fan into full combo, but you gotta get lucky.

Trying stuff online i find when I dash under I do it too late and anything I do besides EX lift gets stuffed.

instead of a full out dash I have been walking towards the side the jump from just slightly and doing D3, it makes them wiff pretty consistenly and usually gets me far enough away that JK combos wiff. But I haven't had the chance to try this stuff offline yet.

Long live the princess.

 

[rev0lver]

if you make a great read nothing beats 3 fan into full combo, but you gotta get lucky.

I do this sometimes after a blockstring to catch people wanting to crossover, and it's not a huge risk. Her fan isn't combo-punishable on block, but I'm not sure on the frame data on crouch block. If I remember right, the first one will hit a crouch block but the second one will whiff. I'm not sure if it's relevant for a punish or not, but I have only been poked after it if I guess wrong. 33 into 2~lift can work as well, of course, but sometimes the second 3 will whiff if they're at a certain height.

Also, I'm not sure if it has been mentioned in the past, but I'd like to point out that 3~fan can stop Kung Lao's divekick crossover shenanigans

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Kitana loses to Shang Tsung.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Kitana loses to Shang Tsung.

Why?

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Why?

Woundcowboy is the only shang that blows my Kitana up, it's online, but still, everything is there.

-He zones her out (shuts down her air game)
-He has unbreakable damage
- He has frame traps, that if Kitana pokes out with a d1, is blocked, will eat f4 into combo
- Shuts down her footsies imo with soul steal, which forces her to start jumping if she wants to evade it, and can be risky.
-He can end a round with soul steal for extra damage and chip
- Builds meter on her pretty well

- Kitana has trouble playing a footsie match with him, she cannot zone or play an air game, the only time she can zone is 100% FULL screen with ZERO input errors, even at that, his upskull can slow her down.

I don't see this being 5/5

 

[xKhaoTik]

Woundcowboy is the only shang that blows my Kitana up, it's online, but still, everything is there.

-He zones her out (shuts down her air game)
-He has unbreakable damage
- He has frame traps, that if Kitana pokes out with a d1, is blocked, will eat f4 into combo
- Shuts down her footsies imo with soul steal, which forces her to start jumping if she wants to evade it, and can be risky.
-He can end a round with soul steal for extra damage and chip
- Builds meter on her pretty well

- Kitana has trouble playing a footsie match with him, she cannot zone or play an air game, the only time she can zone is 100% FULL screen with ZERO input errors, even at that, his upskull can slow her down.

I don't see this being 5/5

Idk...I do very well against WoundCowboy when I play him with kitana. Last time I spoke with him, he made it seem like shang has more trouble than kitana does, he even said he'd rather use Freddy/Kenshi(I forget which one he said) against me.

Most of your reasoning also works against a majority of the cast as well, tho your reasoning is nothing to disagree with.

I'm not too sure if this is a true MU we can speak of tho. The only two shang players worth mentioning are Detroit and Wound and there aren't many shang's in the MK scene to help us determine a true MU number for this. I'm sure Osu 16 Bit has played one of these Top shang players so maybe he might have a better understanding with the MU.

But idk, I haven't had trouble in the MU at all, online and offline.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Kitana loses to Shang Tsung.

I've always had a little trouble with this match up as well, specially online, feels like shang has a friggin block infinite online.

when people kept telling me it's 5-5 I chocked it up to me not knowing the match up, I try to be very agressive but you can get blown the F up for that, your dead if you try to kick it anywhere esle on the the screen, and shang doesn't need to come at you at any point really,

soul steal is a fuckin deadly move

 

[ragnar0kz28]

Idk...I do very well against WoundCowboy when I play him with kitana. Last time I spoke with him, he made it seem like shang has more trouble than kitana does, he even said he'd rather use Freddy/Kenshi(I forget which one he said) against me.

Most of your reasoning also works against a majority of the cast as well, tho your reasoning is nothing to disagree with.

I'm not too sure if this is a true MU we can speak of tho. The only two shang players worth mentioning are Detroit and Wound and there aren't many shang's in the MK scene to help us determine a true MU number for this. I'm sure Osu 16 Bit has played one of these Top shang players so maybe he might have a better understanding with the MU.

But idk, I haven't had trouble in the MU at all, online and offline.

I could say the same Shang seem so free to Kitty, I never lost to a Shang and he seem so helpless up close.

 

[Jimmypotato]

I could say the same Shang seem so free to Kitty, I never lost to a Shang and he seem so helpless up close.

Have you played Wound? this in no way is any disrespect towards you, just a question, because he puts the fuckin T in Shang Tsung

WoundCowboy

 

[xKhaoTik]

I could say the same Shang seem so free to Kitty, I never lost to a Shang and he seem so helpless up close.

O no man. You have it wrong lol. Shang is NOT free for kitana at all. Mr. Mileena could be right and this could be a bad MU, its just that this match is very under the radar.

Also, idk what Shang you're playing, but shang is DEFINITELY a threat up close.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

I mean, i can't counter poke a blocked d3 online, and he gets free pressure, but still, wound is very good and plays the Shang Kit Mu correctly. I don't, maybe i should zone full screen more, and slowly work my way in, but it is also hard to block skulls online.

I just feel in the future, he will beat her, Kitana is still not being fought agaisnt correctly, perhaps noone ever will, but once they do, the d1 back off f2+1 gimmicks wont work

 

[Jimmypotato]

I mean, i can't counter poke a blocked d3 online, and he gets free pressure, but still, wound is very good and plays the Shang Kit Mu correctly. I don't, maybe i should zone full screen more, and slowly work my way in, but it is also hard to block skulls online.

I just feel in the future, he will beat her, Kitana is still not being fought agaisnt correctly, perhaps noone ever will, but once they do, the d1 back off f2+1 gimmicks wont work

tough to stay full screen here too man, because he can just advance and ends up getting you in the corner, if you square ass your eating an ubreakable as well,

 

[ragnar0kz28]

Sorry I mean none plays him offline, and every online Shang looses bad to me even JadedReign, and hes Shang is very good, not Detroit good but good.

 

[16 Bit]

I've played Wound offline. Not a lot though. We played a decent amount of casuals at MLG Anaheim and played in tournament at Evo. Other than that my only offline Shang exp was from Detroit and Alex Valle in 2011.

I have this MU at 5-5. I don't think his zoning shuts down hers. I will do like one IAF then move in a bit. The IAF is faster than he can get skulls out. She wins from 2,1 range. Soul Steal is all you have to worry about. He does win up close. For poking out of f+4~skull pressure i would use d+3 unless I'm going for d+1~cuttet.If you think he's going to stop and block hoping to blow up d+1 then throw or jump out, same as Cage.

 

[BenGmanUk]

I find making Shang whiff a ground skull and getting an ex fan cancelled into double dash f21 is always a threat.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I find making Shang whiff a ground skull and getting an ex fan cancelled into double dash f21 is always a threat.

I do this a well. Also, when im zoning him from full screen, I noticed that some shang players like to go for the upskull since the ground skull whiffs. At that point, If I read an upskull, I like to dash in and use ex fan toss, preferably ex iaf since it comes out faster. Works everytime, at least for me.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

I have been very conflicted about this MU. Sometimes I do well and other times I just get blown up. Shang's problems in this Mu are that he has to over-commit himself to most of his options from mid and far distances. SS is good in theory to play footsies against her, but the problem is that it is SUPER risky. It is slow so it ca be out-poked if they are too close and if they jump, Shang is dead. F+2,1 can be blown up pretty easily by Shang, but everything else (2,1 and especially 2 by itself) is relatively safe against him since he does not have a fast or long ranged advancing normal like Sonya or Cage. He definitely wins in the pressure game, especially since she doesn't have armor. IDK, I definitely don't think that Shang wins but it might be 5-5. It is dumb though, I do better with one of my shitty backup characters then I do with my main

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

I also hope that I get to play both xKhaoTikx and Mr. Mileena offline at some point. lol, no more D+3, crossover bs or safe whiffed normals

 

[BillStickers]

Kitana loses to Shang Tsung.

This is what happens when you insist on playing footsies.

Fan Toss (air) - 13

Fire Skull - 21
Fire Skull (full screen) - 54
Up Skull - 57
Ground Skull - 29
Soul Steal - 24
Triple Skulls - 21
Triple Skulls (full screen) - 54
Skull Storm - 57
Ground Eruption (first fireball) - 21
Ground Eruption (second fireball) - 36
Ground Eruption (third fireball) - 51
Soul Capture - 18
Your Soul Is Mine - 20

lol.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

This is what happens when you insist on playing footsies.







lol.

So you're going to keep throwing fans when you don't have the life lead? I know that's all you do, but just throwing fans isn't gonna win you this matchup, that's why you dropped her for Jade.

 

[xKhaoTik]

This is what happens when you insist on playing footsies.







lol.

Throwing fans in this match is gonna do nothing but get you Blown up man. Even from full screen, kitana has to be careful because of tthe upskull.

Also, if kit is zoning from full screen, shang can just move in carefully then hit you with ex ground skull, all unbreakable and very damaging.

 

[16 Bit]

Throwing fans in that mu keeps him honest. It stops him from establishing the skulls on screen so you can get in.

 

[RTM2004]

yah man recently I have been putting thought into Cross up defence as well, it can be a real bitch,

Trying stuff online i find when I dash under I do it too late and anything I do besides EX lift gets stuffed.

What happened to the JimmyPotato "Pretty Kick" special? lol. Wake up Pretty Kick during a cross over after a knockdown moves Kitana to the other side. Of course it's horrible if your opponent crouch block ready to poke her wake up Cutter or Uppercut her Pretty Kick but meh it's one of those gimmicks I've seen you used before and it was successful, hardly ever punished =p

 

[Jimmypotato]

What happened to the JimmyPotato "Pretty Kick" special? lol. Wake up Pretty Kick during a cross over after a knockdown moves Kitana to the other side. Of course it's horrible if your opponent crouch block ready to poke her wake up Cutter or Uppercut her Pretty Kick but meh it's one of those gimmicks I've seen you used before and it was successful, hardly ever punished =p

I still use it everynow and then, I was talking about cross overs when I'm already standing though,

 

[RTM2004]

I still use it everynow and then, I was talking about cross overs when I'm already standing though,

Oh I know what you mean. Kitana's D1 as cross up defense won't save her. After watching Mr. Mileena against Cat and Rev0lver against Perfect Legend, her D1 was punished heavily from a cross up jip combo so I guess the D1 safe get out of jail card Kitana era days is done too :\ I can only assume Kitana's D3 is her only saving grace during a cross up defense since it shrinks her hitbox like Jade/Mileena's D3?

Every day it seems like Kitana is being exposed and picked apart anatomically D*:

I can't wait until Kenshi and Freddy get ripped into shreds and turned into dirt >=-D