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Understanding how to fight against NDCs

Lulzlou

Noob
name one kabal who actually WANTS to do this.
that would be zero... because they want dat meter. You actually win a huge battle if you can make him just finish the first cancel with a mixup.
Well it all depends on the situation in the match.


If I keep noticing they poke out of the first NDC, I commit to the dash and combo with the f4 ender. Its all reads really.
If the kabal player reads that you will poke out he will get a good punish into a reset
If the person fighting kabal reads he'll commit to it, he can just block and get a free full combo punish.

It is more of a risk committing to the dash than a regular 50/50 mix up. As a kabal player you need to make them respect the dash, not expect it. That all comes down to the player so you need to have good mind games.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Actually kabals will do this if they have a breaker in hand/ make a read u want to poke out. If u stop respecting it, he will blow u up with a dash and get a full combo with the f4 to reset things. I see plenty of kabals take that one risk bcuz they know their opponent won't expect it. Doing the expected gets ppl blown up, FYI. I never said they want to do this lol putting words into my mouth, I said what IF.
I didn't put any words in your mouth.
I'm just saying. EVEYRONE eats 2 revolutions of NDC.... EVERYONE. No one i've ever seen has just said "fuck it i'm blowing this up"
I said that... ME!!!!
If I see a 2NDC... I'm going to try and blow up the next one... or poke... because you sure as shit ain't HC that. God himself would have a hard time HC'ing 2~NDC.
 
I didn't put any words in your mouth.
I'm just saying. EVEYRONE eats 2 revolutions of NDC.... EVERYONE. No one i've ever seen has just said "fuck it i'm blowing this up"
I said that... ME!!!!
I was just making sure, also u can't ever fully predict what a kabal will during his pressure. Heck, he good do f4 to ex dash cancel and be at advantage, do a 50/50 mixup in between, or just grab someone and go back to zoning. In the end, it is a guessing game that can never be completely dealt with, but can be handled to a point where you won't get blown up and babied.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I feel like... at the very least..... i'm going to lose guns blazing.
If he blows me up for trying to get a full combo off a NDC.... so be it. I'll tip my cap..... well probably not, but you get the gist.

If you want to beat Kabal... you gotta toss your dick out there and hope it comes back.
 

Lulzlou

Noob
I
If I see a 2NDC... I'm going to try and blow up the next one... or poke... because you sure as shit ain't HC that. God himself would have a hard time HC'ing 2~NDC.
I can get them good in casuals. Last offline meet up, I did it to a sonya 7 or 8 times and won the match. He even said that he was trying to crouch block. Imo, its not as hard as people make it seem. I feel like what the problem is that its hard to do under pressure and/or tournament nerves. I recently started being able to do them a lot so I'll see how it goes at my next tournament, which will be ECT4.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I can get them good in casuals. Last offline meet up, I did it to a sonya 7 or 8 times and won the match. He even said that he was trying to crouch block. Imo, its not as hard as people make it seem. I feel like what the problem is that its hard to do under pressure and/or tournament nerves. I recently started being able to do them a lot so I'll see how it goes at my next tournament, which will be ECT4.
no i mean HC into the spin. You've already buffered the dash.... and probably cancelled it... a one hit HC is hard to pull off.
 

Lulzlou

Noob
no i mean HC into the spin. You've already buffered the dash.... and probably cancelled it... a one hit HC is hard to pull off.
You just need to train your fingers to react the moment you see something. I taught my self to do that even if my finger is a millimeter away from hitting block. I'm not saying I get it every time and I have some god like reactions but it can be done.


I tend to do more 2ndc in the corner. With the way I mix it up, people like to jump then I catch them in a juggle. I'd juggle them for example like, 2ndc, 2ndc, 2ndc, f4~nd or 2ndc, 2ndc, b121 if I'm feeling crazy. Keep in mind I'm paying attention to my meter/health and my opponents.

Also people tend to not react in time if they get hit by a 2ndc and by then I'll realize it and do 2nd. Maybe thats an online thing. I can't remember if I get people with that at my offline meet ups.

Probably sounds like I'm lying but oh well xD

I dont think 2 ND combos.....does it?
It does. One of the most common things I do that with is Reptiles dash. If I feel like I reacted to late I'll try to hit confirm the 2 ND.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Something I never see Skarlet players take advantage of. So long as Skarlet has meter, you can never attempt to poke her after RD slide. >_>
its because the slash can be blocked even after the poke, so if they try any other movement than poke, they eat a full combo.

So having the meter in display becomes a threat like Glue said on his guide, it gives the warning that she can do something crazy inside the interruptibles gaps.:)
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
Kung Lao is boring....but Kenshi isn't?!
Yeah, totally. I mean sure, against someone who doesn't know how to deal with your zoning, it's not so exciting. But using him on a high level is a fucking thrill. When you have to really get in with your footsies. Trying to bait wakeups in the corner to get an EX SC conversion combo. All his corner combos are really fun and non-repetitive. Pulling the trigger on an EX RK to blow up a crossover punch is like a fuckin' adrenaline shot!

His sword always looks gorgeous, so there's a real aesthetic enjoyment as well. And the teleflurry in particular is just such a cool animation.
 

AYSAMO

Noob
Just so you know Liu's standing 213 gets beat out all the time and his 2 is 8 frames. I think it depends on what move kabal decides to do after he cancels. The only thing I really have that guarantees me stopping his pressure is d3, then I just have to guess between a 50/50 whether he's going to finish the string or follow threw with it. The fact is most characters just have a fast poke and thats about it, in your case your d3 is also your best bet.
Yea with liu kang Im pretty much forced to sit there and wait to throw out a d3 after I see certain strings like f32. Was thinking about trying to d3 into ex low fb?
 
Yea with liu kang Im pretty much forced to sit there and wait to throw out a d3 after I see certain strings like f32. Was thinking about trying to d3 into ex low fb?
After d3 hits you can do b312, f12, 21 and maybe en low fireball or finish the string, jump out, or you can basically start your own pressure. Just don't go for a f4 or any other sting that has a slow start up or you'll probably get poked again and Kabal can restart his pressure.
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
So the whole point of this thread is how to fight against Kabal's NDC so you won't have to spend 1 meter to armor out and to not use Breaker while you are in his blockstring pressure? You break, Kabal returns to spamming. You finally get in on Kabal, he uses Breaker and escapes free. You knock him down trying to maintain pressure, he armors out easy with his Ex Nomad Dash.

iAGB spam full screen, Smoke and Jade eliminates his zoning but Kabal has strong answers for rushdown to abuse. This reminds me of last year when everyone complained about Kung Lao being too good up close, kills zoners with his Teleports and can zone with his Low Hat and to mention 2,4,Low Hat spam. Kabal heavily benefited from the normalize dash nerf 1.05 patch.
 

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
Right since you guys still arent getting it I'll explain it to you.

NDC is a move that is supposed to happen when the opponent respects Kabals options to do a low or an overhead at the end of any blockstring.

E.g A Kabal player that does F32 NDC F32 is no different than a Mileena player doing 4 2, 4 2 as blockstrings. Or a Cage player doing 11 11. It happens when you respect that the opponent can extend their blockstring, but they deliberately shorten it so that they can repeat it again.

What to understand

Moves you MUST respect:

- 111 NDC, this leaves Kabal at +8 and grants him either a free F4, throw, F3 or B1, just block or armour
- 2NDC, this leaves Kabal at +9, so its any of the above again

Moves you dont need to respect if you have a 10frame or faster starter (preferably mid hitting but doesnt matter too much):

- F32 NDC & B12 NDC, leaves Kabal at +2 and B1 NDC/11B4NDC/21 NDC leaving him at +1 BUT if you want to interupt him here just mash your fastest launcher, if it is high hitting it will force Kabal to poke or eat a combo. If it is mid hitting he has no choice other than to poke. Once you force him to poke you then have the option to jump over him or block his poke for a counter set up.

Moves Kabal has to commit to something on:

F4 NDC (-5) This is a terrible idea for the Kabal player to do because if they cancel and attempt another normal they will get comboed, so here they either have to commit to the dash, or end in a 50/50. Most Kabal players are scared to commit to the dash, but if they do it wont hurt to get hit by it a couple times because he can only get about 25% off of it. Whereas if you block it you get max damage, which is big for characters like Rain, Cyrax, Sektor, Sonya etc.

IF THE KABAL PLAYER DOES F4 WITHOUT A 50/50 OR A COMMITTED DASH THEIR PRESSURE GAME IS OVER

So basically just mash out them NDCs

Other things to note:

B1~2 can be armoured out of or teleported out of (Raiden)
111 against crouch block is full combo punished when interupted
ALSO if the kabal play loves to do d3 and d1 to stop you from mashing buttons, block low and counterpoke. It works really well and throws players off guard and I don't see people doing this that much. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT