cage,sonya against the cast matchups

[Evil_Riu48]

first thing this thread is not to talk about the cage vs sonya matchup


this thread is like a cage matchup vs sonya matchup thread

example

reptile matchup

sonya 6-4
cage 5-5

sonya can check retile much better than cage does and since reptile can not punish sonya's dive kick with a full combo like other characters can sonya can take more risk with her dive kick she elso has more option than cage in this matchup because she can play reptile at any place in the screem when cage most get in to play this matchup

 

[Death]

Awesome thread RIU48. I do think Sonya is better than Cage and MUs where cage goes even sonya possibly beats.
I think Cage is even with CSZ, Ermac, Liu Kang, Rain, Reptile, Sektor. The MUs I think Cage has Adv in are Baraka, Jade, Jax, Kano, KL, Mileena, NW, Quan Chi, Raiden, Scorpion, Shang, Sheeva, Smoke. Those ADV MUs Cage has I think Sonya has adv over all of them too.

Cage vs CSZ: 5-5
Sonya vs CSZ: 6-4

Cage vs Ermac: 5-5
Sonya vs Ermac: 6-4

Cage vs Liu Kang: 5-5
Sonya vs Liu Kang: 6-4

Cage vs Rain: 5-5
Sonya vs Rain: 6-4

Cage vs Reptile: 5-5
Sonya vs Reptile: 6-4

Cage vs Sektor: 5-5
Sonya vs Sektor: 6-4

Just those are the big differences. I think both of them only have 3 bad MUs being Freddy, Kabal, Kenshi. People say Cage loses to Sub but I think at the highest level of gameplay that MU is even. Same with Sub/Sonya.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

Death

i would like you to talk about all of them but i guess that would be a long post for you but can you explain the sektor and specially the ermac matchup why you feel sonya beat ermac but cage goes 5-5? same with sektor

 

[Death]

VS Sektor, That MU could be in Cage favor but I think Sonya beats sektor worst than Cage. Sektor low hitbox and 6 frame jab can really fuck up Cage pressure game. Cage can EX shadow kick any missile on reaction which will push Sektor closer to the corner and where sektor struggles. I do think Sektor has an easier time vs Cage mainly because of his 6 frame jab. If Cage gets predictable in his pressure Sektor can combo him for big damage.

Sonya really fucks up Sektor IMO. Sonya can throw out ring toss mid screen and bait an ITU for 45% at least. If Sektor EX it then its free blockstrings for Sonya or a free grab when they block. Sonya D+4 MS F+1 is a great tool once blocking a flame thrower as well. Sektor HAS to be careful about doing any types of zoning. If sektor flame throwers Sonya can ex cartwheel it for 35% at least. Or do D+4 MSF1 to get it. She has way better footsies and can bait missiles and punish with ex cartwheel or dive kick it of a good read. Sonya does have to be careful on block strings vs Sektor cuz sektor can use his 6 frame jab to end it so a lot of times you have to block from MS and crouch under 12B1 and poke out or armor threw. Its a baiting game on block strings.

VS Ermac, zoning is irrelevent to both characters. All this will do is push Ermac in the corner once Cage gets closer. This MU is 5-5 because Ermac has good pokes and can get out of Cage pressure. BUT Ermac has no armor and slow normals so the best he can do is through a couple low pokes to get him out. The Cage player has to be patient and just dash block his way in. No reason to jump ever. Cage can do 13~ex forceball as a trap since F+33~FB will whiff on Ermac. Cage can shadow Kick ermac TKP on block which will kick him closer to the corner where cage wants him to be.

Sonya fucks up Ermac as well. Its similar to the sektor MU. However Sonya does not have an answer for a block TKP. All she can do is dash block in to get into D4MSF1 range. 2 blocked TKP and shes doing that or she can ex cartwheel TKP on 1 dash block away. Sonya isnt a pressure character like Cage so she can come and really fuck him with block strings which she cant do to Sektor cuz of his 6 frame jab. Poking sonya means suicide for the most part. She can block up pokes with EX cartwheel and Instant dive kick and counter poking for sonya means counter poke plus Military Stance. If Ermac does any type of risk meaning any TKP or Lift on wake up or trying to trade rings with a teleport/ex teleport means hes losing half his life.

I prob missed stuff out and will edit some parts but some of this is just of the top of my head.

 

[LEGEND]

does instant dive kick beat out instant air blast? (Sonya v Ermac)

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

I believe a lot of people would agree with me that Mileena is one of Sektor's worst match ups due to her d4 stuffing Sektor's footsie game. Sonya has the same d4 that leads into more shit; hence an even worse match up. IMO Sektor is one of the best characters to use against Cage outside characters like Kenshi. The match up may even be slightly in Sektor's favor.

On paper, Sonya is a way better character than Cage. That's not to say it's going to translate 100% into actual matches however.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

does instant dive kick beat out instant air blast? (Sonya v Ermac)

nope, but whiff an iab and get cartwheeled.

 

[LEGEND]

nope, but whiff an iab and get cartwheeled.

at point blank range after a neutral string what can sonya do to make it wiff?

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

at point blank range after a neutral string what can sonya do to make it wiff?

duck, block low, d4, anything that lowers her hit box.

Ermac falls really slow after a whiffed iab, right? I don't do them much, so I could be wrong on this. Reason being is when they whiff I always eat shit.

 

[LEGEND]

duck, block low, d4, anything that lowers her hit box.

Ermac falls really slow after a whiffed iab, right? I don't do them much, so I could be wrong on this. Reason being is when they whiff I always eat shit.

i haven't tested them throughly enough with all characters but i think it still hits most D4 and D3 lowered hitboxes. Also pretty certain cartwheel is too slow to punish it on wiff but standing 1 might still do it

 

[Death]

does instant dive kick beat out instant air blast? (Sonya v Ermac)

I wouldnt recommend jumping straight up in the air in Sonyas face from close range. You will get AA D+1 into cartwheel into MS reset. Or Just EX cartwheel on reaction. That MU is Sonyas favor.

 

[LEGEND]

I wouldnt recommend jumping straight up in the air in Sonyas face from close range. You will get AA D+1 into cartwheel into MS reset. Or Just EX cartwheel on reaction. That MU is Sonyas favor.

i still think that MU is questionable, you wiff anything and you're fucked plus you can't really do anything about Ermacs zoning so he WILL have meter once you do get in

 

[Death]

What would I whiff D+4? Its like that with every charater though. Every character has big damage on whiff punishing. I'm not D+4 until I know its 100% going to hit. Yes Ermac will have meter but lets be honest here. His zoning is trash compared to a lot of characters. Hes not winning MUs of zoning thats for sure.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

Death i do not think you know the sektor vs sonya matchup

sektor will punish sonya 's ring with an instant teleport punch on reaction every time every time and for her to use the ex cartwheel on the flame she has to make the read on the flame because she can not see the flame then do the cartwheel because the flame has more range than the cartwheel sektor at best for sonya is 5-5


ermac vs cage is much worst for ermac than ermac vs sonya because cage can punish the push on block and when he gets in there is not such a thing as ermac has good poke to get cage off from him because that would be like saying every characters that has a 6 frame d1 can get cage off from him/her and we know that is not it because about 80% of the cast has a 6 frame. . .

 

[Zyphox]

Cage can do 13~ex forceball as a trap since F+33~FB will whiff on Ermac. Cage can shadow Kick ermac TKP on block which will kick him closer to the corner where cage wants him to be.

\

ermac can take the 3 in 13 and forceball will wiff and ermac can punish with 31TKS combo, also no ermac will TKP unless its max range, shadow kick is risky to do against ermac so ermac should be playing footsie in shadow kick range and bait it if they actually try it.

 

[Death]

ITU is the most overrated tactic in the game. If sonya is being predictable and throwing out rings then yes Sektor can do that but if Sonya is throwing them out periodically from mid screen then Sektor cannot punish on reaction. If Sektor guesses wrong he loses half his life. I know the sektor MU better than most people. I know how to fight that character. Even if I block the flame thrower I can still get D+4 MSF+1 going. I always do ex cartwheel on flame thrower. It blows up flame thrower very easily.

Sonya beats Ermac so much more than Cage does for the reasons i listed. She can get in so easily and kill him with damage. His zoning wont stop either character but Sonya armor and ability to get in much easier gives her the edge. I know we talked about sonya a lot at MLG but i Do feel like you underrate sonya tremendously. I.m the only sonya player out there who thinks this character is a top 5 character. Sonya mains need to just admit shes a top character. So many sonyas make threads and comments saying she isnt top 5. I guess we can all agree to disagree.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

In the middle of a match where you are not full screen, the ability to stop doing what you were doing and itu fast recovery projectiles is nigh impossible. If the Sektor player is just standing 3/4th to full screen and doing nothing, then they are going to itu you if you shoot something. Take this opportunity to get in on Sektor for free. There's only a few characters that you can itu their projectiles on reaction while also managing footsies and firing missiles; Sonya isn't one of them.

 

[Death]

A good tactic you can use for sonya fighting sektor or any1 that baits out ring toss. Is to just Dash midscreen and press standing 2. Standing 2 recovery is very good and it has the same motion and looks like ring toss. Its good at baiting sub slides and a lot of moves as well. Works very good vs sektor too if Sektor is looking for ITU. Punish sektor teleport with 50%.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

. I know we talked about sonya a lot at MLG but i Do feel like you underrate sonya tremendously. I.m the only sonya player out there who thinks this character is a top 5 character. Sonya mains need to just admit shes a top character. So many sonyas make threads and comments saying she isnt top 5. I guess we can all agree to disagree.

i agree 2 can be use as a mind game against people who try to react 2 fast to punish her rings

i think you are got my opinion of the charcater the wrong way i do not underrate sonya at all in fact i think she is top tier what i do not agree with is people saying stuff like her rushdown is as good as cage or people saying stuff like she easily beat sektor like you are trying to say because trust me sektor can give her a lot of problems mind games and ex cartwheel will not win you the fight against a smart sektor who knows her but again i think this matchup is 5-5

like i said i do not underrate her other are the one who are over rating her tools the fact that most of the players out there think she gets a 50/50 after a d4ms show it