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General/Other Snake-Oil Smoke Bombs: What I Would Trade the Reset for and Why

No, because I don't use resets...so it would be useless to me. Whether or not he'd be better with something else is irrelevant. He does have the resets. We do have to deal with them in the meta game. They are ridiculous. Just because he isn't the top character doesn't mean he needs 100% resets no matter how hard they are to do.

Oh and pick up reptile if you want forceballs.
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Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
its also one of the better footsie and whiff punishing tools in the game so its not the case of block high and b23 will never hit
I don't think it is, really. It's good because of how easy it is to hitconfirm into smoke bomb on hit but I don't think it's that ideal to be be preemptively throwing out just outside footsies range. Characters like Sub-Zero and Sonya don't care about it because they have better footsies tools in their respective d4's.

Gpood whiff punish, not so much footsies, though, imo.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
What a fucking scumbag, making people miss the point of the thread by mentioning "reset".
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
This attempt to change the community's perception might be futile but I don't give a FUCK.
Tbh, if the resets actually made that much of an impact, you'd see more Cyrax/Jax/Smoke players actually placing top 8. Fact is, you don't.

There's more to a game than just damage. There's a reason why characters like Frost in MKDA or Fei Long in ST aren't top tier despite having such consistently viable high-damage options. Shit goes way beyond that.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
I would trade the reset for nothing as long as we could keep our cancelling out of the F4 normal... so annoying if this ever gets patched to the actual PS3 game.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Tbh, if the resets actually made that much of an impact, you'd see more Cyrax/Jax/Smoke players actually placing top 8. Fact is, you don't.

There's more to a game than just damage. There's a reason why characters like Frost in MKDA or Fei Long in ST aren't top tier despite having such consistently viable high-damage options. Shit goes way beyond that.
Mmm...Frost <3.

I think KT should get a muffin for his attempts at rationality.

I'd trade Cyrax's resets AND 2X regular Bomb juggle combos for a low combo starter or hitbox.
Without hesitation.

well, sub-zero got over nerfed. I always supported him keeping his EX ground freeze reset.
If they'd nerfed his damage and kept the reset, or kept his damage and nerfed the reset, he'd be set. Taking them both made life quite difficult for Mr. Freezypop.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
The difference between a regular tool like a dive kick and big ass combos is that the resets make you feel like you got screwed.

The logic that b+2 being an overhead is a non issue because no one blocks low against Smoke makes no sense. Why do you think no one blocks low against Smoke? If b+2 was special mid then everyone would block low against Smoke all day.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
well, sub-zero got over nerfed. I always supported him keeping his EX ground freeze reset.
Na, that thing was lame. It was a 50% 1 bar wall carry and was super hitconfirmable off his 9frame startup string. Sub-Zero is a machine when he has you in the corner, too, so it was op.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
My favorite example is NEC. There were about a dozen known cyrax players there. You know who made top 8? Only Maxter.
Oh man, I remember that.
There were fucking robots EVERYWHERE.
People were getting knocked out left and right by Cyrax via Krayzie, Noobe and the like, but when it came down to the wire, only Maximo emerged.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Na, that thing was lame. It was a 50% 1 bar wall carry and was super hitconfirmable off his 9frame startup string. Sub-Zero is a machine when he has you in the corner, too, so it was op.
Knowing the shit we know now, it wouldn't have catapulted Sub to godliness at all.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Saying "but they're glitches and they shouldn't be there in the first place" is missing the point. They ARE there and instead of looking at them as glitches you need to look at how they factor into the metagame.

The point of this thread:

People flip a shit about reset combos.

There are things that, when applied to a character instead of reset combos, are BETTER than reset combos. These things people WOULD NOT flip a shit about.


THAT IS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD, TO POINT THAT OUT. That's all.
Its not a reset if its guaranteed. idk how many time I have to say it but ill say again.

If a reset is guaranteed then its not a reset. its a damage reset combo which is bs. There are 2 ways to fix this

1) Get rid of it b/c of obv reasons
or
2) Give everyone in the cast guaranteed resets a.k.a damage reset combos

I don't see why people think this is ok. I do like the fact there letting this marinate to see what it does tot he meta but NO ONE is using it in the meta and people who try mess up b/c they have no practice in a real fight
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
Knowing the shit we know now, it wouldn't have catapulted Sub to godliness at all.
That's only because other characters have too much retarded stuff and Tom Brady thinks Sub is a top 10 character again due to his OS clone stuff which very few people know about, so, in all honesty, who knows. My opinion is that all the dubious stuff should go so the game has less dirt but if all the dirt stays, then Sub's dirt might as well have stayed, too, I suppose. Sub-Zero would be a massive threat if he still had his ex groundfreeze reset. He gets plenty of 21 opportunities off his 8 frame d4, lol. I think he'd be pretty ridiculous.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Its not a reset if its guaranteed. idk how many time I have to say it but ill say again.

If a reset is guaranteed then its not a reset. its a damage reset combo which is bs. There are 2 ways to fix this

1) Get rid of it b/c of obv reasons
or
2) Give everyone in the cast guaranteed resets a.k.a damage reset combos

I don't see why people think this is ok. I do like the fact there letting this marinate to see what it does tot he meta but NO ONE is using it in the meta and people who try mess up b/c they have no practice in a real fight
Cyrax and Jax reset is consistently being performed in competitive play, and the Smoke players that can do it are (Except for Jr).
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
That's only because other characters have too much retarded stuff and Tom Brady thinks Sub is a top 10 character again due to his OS clone stuff which very few people know about, so, in all honesty, who knows. My opinion is that all the dubious stuff should go so the game has less dirt but if all the dirt stays, then Sub's dirt might as well have stayed, too, I suppose. Sub-Zero would be a massive threat if he still had his ex groundfreeze reset. He gets plenty of 21 opportunities off his 8 frame d4, lol. I think he'd be pretty ridiculous.
He still wouldn't be as ridiculous as the top 5. Sonya, Cage, Freddy, Kenshi, Kabal.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
He still wouldn't be as ridiculous as the top 5. Sonya, Cage, Freddy, Kenshi, Kabal.
I think he would be because you would be incredibly hesitant to interrupt 21 pressure. If he was doing 21 pressure, and you tried to blockstring or poke out, and he crossed you up or just took a gamble on the full string into iceblast... good game. I don't know, he'd be frightening to play against.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Cyrax and Jax reset is consistently being performed in competitive play, and the Smoke players that can do it are (Except for Jr).
This I know but for some reason aside from KT Smith I don't see this reset performed. Even Jr doesnt do it a lot.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
I think he would be because you would be incredibly hesitant to interrupt 21 pressure. If he was doing 21 pressure, and you tried to blockstring or poke out, and he crossed you up or just took a gamble on the full string into iceblast... good game. I don't know, he'd be frightening to play against.
Just the fact that we're having the discussion about how he "might" be as good as the top 5 means that he shouldn't have gotten nerfed.

People were and are too eager to change shit around on impulse. If it's not Ivan Ooze god tier OP it doesn't need to get nerfed until marinating in the meta game for at least 6 months.

What justification was there to nerf potentially top 5 subz into mid tier? He should have been left in his 1.03 state.