1.Ok, first of all actually yes it does mean something given the fact that NRS's first game was MK 9 but clearly you're not the brightest apple in the bin. Only a moron would deny this fact. Disregarding facts tells me you simply have no argument lol.
Still means nothing in the context of my talking point: balance. I don't understand how you don't get that.
Not a ridiculous strawman, it's fact. You want to dickride MK 11 be my guest, I'm not a shill to the game and can recognize as many others here the many flaws of the game as my thread regarding NRS proved.
"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent."
Please point out where I said MK11 is "perfect compared to MK11" to prove you aren't setting up a blatant strawman.
What does Reo's tier list have to do with anything? He posted it to prove you people wrong making assumptions that "Cyrax is the best character" yet he's not even top 3 in the game.
1- Because I'm talking about balance, though you haven't quite grasped that yet I can see.
2- No he didn't? He literally responded to someone saying "I didnt play MK9, is it true that 9-1s and 8-2s happened fairly often?" There was literally NO Cyrax context to his post whatsoever. Where in the FUCK are you pulling that from?
Well you'd still be wrong then as I've stated that the gameplay mechanics suck and are NOT better than MK 9's, you can scream about it til the cows come home I'm not changing my viewpoint as a top MK 9 player and someone who plays MK in general competitively, oh and you don't need to be in every tourney to know this.
I never mentioned gameplay mechanics, let alone "scream[ed] about it." Irrelevant.
Even a casual player can grasp this concept that MK 11 is not nearly as great as balanced game as you think. Not by a long shot, there's characters like Geras, Kabal, Jacqui, Cage, Cetrion, Sonya, Scorp who literally dominate Kombat League and tourneys if you've actually watched them. Guess what? Mk 9 people complained about Kabal, KL, Kenshi, Cyrax, Sonya showing up too much but from what I've seen in general way more diversity in MK 9 and lower and mid tiers getting farther than any mids or lows in this game. There's a known Sheeva player who got far in MK 9 tourneys she's low af. Crazy Dominican Jr won a combo breaker with Rain....so yeah, talk to me when Raiden in 2nd or 3rd V wins anything, hell at this point even V1. Raijin is the best easily but haven't exactly seen anyone tear anyone up with it now.
So wait a minute, you listed 7 MK11 characters to complain about then only 5 MK9 characters complained about and that results in higher diversity? For mid and lower tiers in MK11, we also have Honeybee with Noob Saibot, Kitana Prime with Jade / Kitana, and Biohazard with Kotal / Kano just to name a few. In addition, please refer to the
MK11 Pro Tour Top 8 Character Usage thread to see how diverse even just top 8s are in MK11. 26 characters have had various levels of usage in the top 8. Note that Cetrion, Sonya, Liu Kang, Jacqui, Johnny, Cassie, Kung Lao, Jade, Frost, Kabal, and Nightwolf have obtained grandfinals wins. If you want a parallel to the Sheeva player, Sonicfox went to a grandfinal with Kollector (a character many regarded as bottom 5 before that).
But again, I'm not even talking "character exclusive balance" I'm talking overall game balance which are two entirely different things however, one indirectly effects the other. Example, MK 9's wake ups, breakers, throws, poke system were superior to MK 11 in every way possible. Why? Simply put because they worked. MK 11's are inconsistent, not universal (take Jade's U2 vs oh I dont know Gera's U2 which is far better than most U2's in the game from the arche alone) and let's not forget the fact that wake ups in this game with delay being the ONE and only exception costs defensive meter which is a ripoff. If you're facing someone like Jacqui Upgraded with insane pressure and you have no meter to wake up, you may as well drop the controller.
1- Stating "they simply worked" isn't an argument, it's just biased conjecture.
2- The games having notable differences in baseline gameplay mechanics does not mean one is better balanced than the other. All it means is that the
baseline to be balanced around is different. Individual character balance is INFINITELY more important for overall game balance because that's what ends up mattering in the end. If a baseline mechanic better suits one character greatly over most others, that one character can be toned down with how they interact with the baseline mechanic to bring better balance to the game (see: Geras U2 speed nerf). The other end of the balance spectrum can also be true. Take MK11 Kitana U2 as the perfect example: her version of a universal mechanic sucked ass and was buffed on an individual level. Even with what you consider inferior baseline mechanics here in MK11, we don't have any 9-1 or 8-2 matchups and any 7-3s are wild outliers. Meanwhile with MK9's mechanics that "worked," we've got Sheeva with no winning matchups, Kenshi with winning matchups against 87% of the cast, multiple 9-1 and 8-2 matchups, and a LOT of 7-3 matchups.
3- MK9's wakeup system was also ridiculously inconsistent because it mattered entirely on the character's special move options on wakeup. This is the exact same issue as MK11's inconsistency in wakeup power. I do agree that wakeup U2/U3 inconsistency is a notable issue in MK11, but don't try saying that MK9's wasn't lopsided too.
Poke system is flawed since you mentioned REO, ok you are aware he also made a video explaining why pokes suck ass in MK 11 compared to MK 9 right? Throws are too OP you can throw someone from a mere ducking animation and you get thrown easily out of rolls, forward and backwards as well as FB's up close(great armor there)Break Aways? Ha if I have really have to explain why these are ass compared to breakers to you then there really is no hope for you. So yeah not fixated on anything, just telling it how it is but feel free to deny all that.
Yet despite the "fact" that pokes "suck ass" compared to MK9, "throws are too OP," and breakways are "ass compared to breakers," matchups aren't nearly as polarizing in this game as MK9. It's almost like how I mentioned above that these mechanics are a baseline to be balanced around and NRS has done a better job of it here than in MK9.
Bolded part: Considering it's a discussion, I'd prefer if you did instead of going "Oh yeah and this point too, but the entire human race already knows and agrees on one point here so you're a lost cause if you don't." That's some real childish shit right there.
2. Actually it does because my preference aside, nobody by nobody I mean majority on here gives a rats ass about "Balance" as much as people like you. If they did MK 9 wouldn't have won that poll by a landslide over MK 11 now would it? nope.
"I wasn't talking about anything but MK9 balance. Why does all this preference and poll shit matter?" "It does matter cause no one else cares about balance as much as you." Ok great. Why are you responding to me then when that's all I've been talking about? Why do you continue to decide to tack on all this other horseshit that has literally nothing to do with what I'm talking about?
Again, just went through this, character balance is not everything when it comes to defining a solid game. MK 9 was also played multiple tourneys and Evos, you're acting as if the game was rejected by majors and MK 11 is this game lightyears better in balance. It may be a little better with character balance but it sure as hell ain't MUCH, MUCH better than MK 9 for various reasons.
I never said nor have I ever acted as if MK9 was rejected by majors. MK9 literally MADE the NRS tournament scene for the modern era. Yet another strawman you're pulling out your ass.
Umm no has nothing do with "forum drama" as you put it, just more facts that back up my claims. I'm not even talking about the disputes, just the poll results if you actually read what I said guy...
I know you were talking about the poll. For the umpteenth time, I wasn't talking about anything other than balance. Not MK9 as a whole, not MK11 whatsoever, not anyone's preference, not MK9 vs. MK11 - just MK9's balance. As such, that poll being "more facts that back up [your] claims" is entirely irrelevant as it had nothing to do with my argument. For someone saying I need to "actually read what [you] said," you sure don't like to read what I say.
3. Nope, now you're trying to backtrack I didn't take it wrong I called you out on your elitist, arrogant attitude and now you're backpedalling lol. "Rose tinted glasses" implying people can't see past their own preference, lol hypocrite much? What are you doing with Mk 11? lol You're quite amusing I must say.
1- What backtracking? I simply clarified what I meant since you clearly didn't understand it the first time. I still stand by "rose-tinted glasses" because that's exactly what it is: nostalgia blindness of your fond memories interfering with the truth of the matter that MK9 was lopsided as fuck. The only difference here is that you insisted that I was saying all MK9 fans have those glasses when in fact all I said was that people like yourself who try to shrug off the notable balance issues of MK9 are 100% blinded by nostalgia. Nothing about the core game, nothing about having fun with it, nothing about loving the mechanics - just its balance.
2- I've been pretty vocal about things I consider balance issues in MK11 so I don't know what exactly makes me a hypocrite here. Please enlighten me.
Whoever told you that obviously is a troll since I address only the topic at hand, now for people like you I may have to go into vivid detail but you'll just ignore what I say anyway and go back to your elitist formula.
What vivid detail? A forum poll that MK9 is the most loved game, that you and so many others like MK9 more, that MK11 also has balance issues - aka all this other irrelevant stuff that has no bearing on my core point that MK9 was lopsided as fuck?
Bold: Now that is some horrendously laughable shit right here.
I have news for you dude, not everyone on here goes where the wind blows. You need to accept and understand this. That being said my "point of view" according to your logic has no more bearing than your personal opinion about my "reading comprehension, what kind glasses I wear or some fake news rep you label me by" because you happen to disagree with me on this. All of that is irrelevant to me as my personal view is to you.
Your point of view of MK9 being better than MK11 isn't irrelevant to me in a general sense. You're more than welcome to your opinion just as I am mine. Your point of view of MK9 > MK11 IS entirely irrelevant to me in regards to the argument I was making as you brought it forth entirely unprovoked in a discussion it was completely off topic to. THAT is why I'm calling you out for poor reading comprehension cause you cannot seem to fathom the simple fact that all this other stuff you are using as "vivid detail" has absolutely no bearing on the topic at hand.
lol if anything You're the one that needs work in reading comprehension, I've explained myself several times in that thread, this one among others WHY most prefer MK 9 to MK 11 but you just keep parroting the same argument like a broken record "character balance, character balance, character balance" it's rather old and tiresome at this point.
Except.. except my point has literally never been about why people prefer MK9 to MK11. Where in the fuck are you getting this from? Don't come after my reading comprehension when a vast majority of your responses to me may as well have not been written in regards to what I was talking about originally. Jesus Christ, dude.
When did I say you hate MK 9? Again I just said I call it how I see it, you may not hate MK 9 but you're obviously pro MK 11 and put it on this pedestal of perfection the way you talk about it. Yes, yes, yes again with the character balance....while ignoring everything else not just in the game but that effects character balance such as universal gameplay mechanics but feel free to ignore that "boo boo".
Just stop using the word "perfect" or any various form of it. I've never said it. Do I put MK11 up on a pedestal? I can 100% see how it reads that way as I think NRS has done a more solid job balancing it than its predecessors. As for mechanics, please see my point above about that.
Cool story bro, I've been playing MK since MK 1 being an 80's kid and while I can't afford nor have the time to go to majors I've played in plenty of local tourneys at mom and pop joints, Gamestops, Gamechamps and numerous other places that are now gone or relocated over the years with MK games. But at least you've played UMk3 which is easily one of the best MK games ever to this day. FTR and I know this is again my personal preference here but saying it anyway because, UMK3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MK 11 any day. That game is way older but the balance since that's your thing was fantastic with it. Another game of the MK franchises where lows if you were good with them could compete with majority of the roster. Can I say that for MK 11? Nope.
Fascinating. You're the one who asked me which was my first MK game and I figured I'd give a little more "vivid detail" as I'm sure it wouldn't have been enough to you to say UMK3, yet now you just dismiss me with "Cool story bro."
@Sutter Pain was so very right about you just being a child.
That all being said, we may as well just agree to disagree because clearly we're going in circles and you have your mindset, I have mine. Let's just move on, shall we?
I just don't understand what there is to "agree to disagree" on here concerning MK9's balance. It was lopsided. VERY lopsided. Anything else here you've decided to bring into this discussion we can agree to disagree on, but it's all a bunch of irrelevant talking points that you have brought up. So.. sure, I guess?
And why do you call me boo boo? Are you trying to scare me or this some sort of flirting tactic you use?lol
No. It's just something I say to people. The second one was just a callback to the first.