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The Future of Noob Saibot.

almost all his strings and specials should be less negative on block and, his clone shouldnt disappear when hit and change his fatal blow requirements. That should be enough to help our fellow saibot.
 

Dante

Noob
Don't know about all string but he should at least have one mid string that's confirmable and maybe a move that's advantageous.
Like seriously, make the damn 3 usable
 
I hate how noob just stands there when you throw out a shadow tackle like goddamn, kung lao just keeps using shaolin drop (d,4) and he gets an easy krushing blow and i lose, like actually i can never find a use with shadow tackle unless i pull them in.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Not trying to be "that guy" but in SF Akuma's fireballs only go half screen, and that character ran shit seasons 2 and 3. It is indeed possible
Akuma has one of the best footsies and offensive games in Street Fighter IV.

What is the connection to Noob? I fail to see one.
 

Nutz

Noob
Not trying to be "that guy" but in SF Akuma's fireballs only go half screen, and that character ran shit seasons 2 and 3. It is indeed possible
If this is supposed to be a counter to the lack of there being zoners in fighting games with projectiles that only go half screen, you have to put it in context and realize Akuma was heavy rushdown in that game not a zoner.
 

zHawken

Would you settle for me sausage?
Akuma has one of the best footsies and offensive games in Street Fighter IV.

What is the connection to Noob? I fail to see one.
Noob has amazing footsies and some of the highest damage in the game. Just because the fireball doesn't go full screen doesn't mean we can't use it to enhance other aspects of our game plan, or force us to adapt and discover new tech that otherwise would not have been found, if that makes sense. In SF4 Akuma could zone you from anywhere on screen, grounded or aerial. In 5 he's got some of the stubbiest normals in the game and is forced to almost use fireballs as an extended limb, and it turned out to be one of his more useful tools and give him advantage against characters with longer reach. I'm saying should apply that same philosophy Noob, especially Seeing Double, and not count out his seemingly lacking moves just yet. I apologize for not being clear.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Noob has amazing footsies and some of the highest damage in the game. Just because the fireball doesn't go full screen doesn't mean we can't use it to enhance other aspects of our game plan, or force us to adapt and discover new tech that otherwise would not have been found, if that makes sense. In SF4 Akuma could zone you from anywhere on screen, grounded or aerial. In 5 he's got some of the stubbiest normals in the game and is forced to almost use fireballs as an extended limb, and it turned out to be one of his more useful tools and give him advantage against characters with longer reach. I'm saying should apply that same philosophy Noob, especially Seeing Double, and not count out his seemingly lacking moves just yet
how are you managing to get any damage with the "Seeing Double" variation? It literally has zero combo extenders.

I've used the variation and I can only win against poeople who just don't "remember" i have a low projectile. I have zero punish damage outside of the b1 KB or a rare b3 KB.

I guess i'm not seeing what you're seeing at all with that variation.
 

zHawken

Would you settle for me sausage?
how are you managing to get any damage with the "Seeing Double" variation? It literally has zero combo extenders.

I've used the variation and I can only win against poeople who just don't "remember" i have a low projectile. I have zero punish damage outside of the b1 KB or a rare b3 KB.

I guess i'm not seeing what you're seeing at all with that variation.
The comment on his damage was more a general one and not directed at Seeing Double in particular. That's my point. Even as far back as day 1 people have been shitting on the variation for not being as good as Dark Sabbath, and I feel that this mentality has stopped a lot of people from trying it, or going about using it in the wrong way trying to make it function like DS. Yeah it might not have bust ass damage, but I still feel like it has some great untapped potential, even if only applicable to a few matchups. I'm starting to see Dark Sabbath as the whiff punish variation, while Seeing Double is the zoning punish variation.
 

Dante

Noob
Seeing double is shit at everything. And no it doesn't beat cassie wth. Jump tele shouldn't be variation locked tho
 
Noob can open people up having KBs on both throws and an auto-shimmy string that leads to almost 40% damage to complement it.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Noob has amazing footsies and some of the highest damage in the game. Just because the fireball doesn't go full screen doesn't mean we can't use it to enhance other aspects of our game plan, or force us to adapt and discover new tech that otherwise would not have been found, if that makes sense. In SF4 Akuma could zone you from anywhere on screen, grounded or aerial. In 5 he's got some of the stubbiest normals in the game and is forced to almost use fireballs as an extended limb, and it turned out to be one of his more useful tools and give him advantage against characters with longer reach. I'm saying should apply that same philosophy Noob, especially Seeing Double, and not count out his seemingly lacking moves just yet. I apologize for not being clear.
I understand your premise, but Akuma has access to tools that are superior to Noob's. Unlike Noob, he can generate lots of offense and pressure. If Noob could generate lots of offense, this thread would not exist. LOL. Many players would also beg to differ that Akuma has stubby normal attacks, but this discussion is about Noob, not Akuma.

The comment on his damage was more a general one and not directed at Seeing Double in particular. That's my point. Even as far back as day 1 people have been shitting on the variation for not being as good as Dark Sabbath, and I feel that this mentality has stopped a lot of people from trying it, or going about using it in the wrong way trying to make it function like DS. Yeah it might not have bust ass damage, but I still feel like it has some great untapped potential, even if only applicable to a few matchups. I'm starting to see Dark Sabbath as the whiff punish variation, while Seeing Double is the zoning punish variation.
I agree that the community's groupthink discourages players from experimenting with different characters and variations. I genuinely believe that Noob is a solid character. He is not too bad yet not too good either. I think he is a mid tier character who has a couple of difficult match ups versus the top tier, which is why many high level players dropped him. I am personally more critical of the gameplay design than the tier status, which is destined to change. I am disappointed because I expected a different type of character when I heard "premier zoning" on the Kombat Kast.
 
There is nothing wrong with Noob saibot, S teir overtuned chars are the issue. No need to touch him (only KB req), he is a very balanced character: super high damage, amazing buttons, super fast mid but punishable depending on enemy, average zoning, full combo teleport
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Not trying to be "that guy" but in SF Akuma's fireballs only go half screen, and that character ran shit seasons 2 and 3. It is indeed possible
Noob has amazing footsies and some of the highest damage in the game. Just because the fireball doesn't go full screen doesn't mean we can't use it to enhance other aspects of our game plan, or force us to adapt and discover new tech that otherwise would not have been found, if that makes sense. In SF4 Akuma could zone you from anywhere on screen, grounded or aerial. In 5 he's got some of the stubbiest normals in the game and is forced to almost use fireballs as an extended limb, and it turned out to be one of his more useful tools and give him advantage against characters with longer reach. I'm saying should apply that same philosophy Noob, especially Seeing Double, and not count out his seemingly lacking moves just yet. I apologize for not being clear.
Comparing Noob to Akuma is a bit simple. I say this because Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat 11 are two completely different games. Yes, both are predicated on neutral, but neutral is rewarded more in Street Fighter than it is in MK 11. For one, In Street Fighter, you can combo off kf low jabs and kicks and in MK11 you just get some frames of advantage to land another poke or a throw. By properly spacing in street fighter you can land a small but of damage by using the right pokes.

In Street Fighter you can tech grabs whether one is blocking or not and can do so using the throw button. In MK11 you have to guess which direction the opponent is throwing you in and if you're blocking you can't tech it.

Street Fighter utilizes oki properly and characters have many tools to allow them to handle a variety of situations, minus SFV. MK11 has a guessing game when it comes to the wakeup system and characters tools are stripped down and seperated into variations, which makes some characters feel shallow and othera incomplete. When characters become shallow it makes the game very matchup based.

The overall core of each game is different. MK11 is trying to go into the direction Street Fighter is in, but they're trying to keep MKisms in the game which make the game feel janky and awkward. It's unfair to compare the two, let alone specific characters in each game.
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On the subject of Seeing Double, it plays like Noob from MK9, but with shittier zoning. It's not good. It doesn't take a genius to figure that. I spent a week with the variation only to come to this realization. Noob suffers from what some characters suffered from in MKX where theybhave only 1 practical variation. I want them to fix Seeing Double and make it usable.
There is nothing wrong with Noob saibot, S teir overtuned chars are the issue. No need to touch him (only KB req), he is a very balanced character: super high damage, amazing buttons, super fast mid but punishable depending on enemy, average zoning, full combo teleport
I wouldn't say there is nothing wrong with him, but he isn't terrible by any means. He's a good character. You're not wrong about the top tiers though. I'd like to see his tackle fixed, seeing double becoming useful and fixed KB requirements truthfully.
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
A Noob with slide like sub zeros, and quicker shadow drop kick from air, and a tweaked shadow tackle would be viable.

That shadow air kick is too dang slow imo.