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The playstyles you want for the characters in mk11

sranc

creep
I play Ferra Torr, Swamp Thing, and Birdie, so obviously I need my big button big body mid range grappler. Outside of that idgaf
 

Mattman

Warlock Nerd
i know its very likely and is pretty much common sense, but are we all certain that netherrealm's next game is going to be mk11? has it even been confirmed yet?
 

DelSchokoladenSaft

Can of Corn Main
I don't know how everyone would feel about this, but how about submission holds being added?
Similar to wrestling games, the submission hold can either be extended by the holder or shortened by the holdee by mashing buttons. Say, any button for a normal hold, but a specific sequence of buttons for the enhanced hold. Albeit similar to the command grab and regular throw, the submission hold could be another way to add depth.

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Aramonde

Noob
Jade - I'd like her to be a poke/footsie character at staff length range. If she's outside of staff range she really can't do anything and if she's up close her best stings are unsafe. Her sweet spot should always be at staff range.

Quan - I don't think he will be in 11 but if he is i'd like him to play kinda like Warlock. An anti zoner who's decent up close. I'd like portal stab to not be ass and if it hits he grabs the opponent through the portal placing them in front of him in a captured state. I want Sky Drop to not be fucking garbage!!!!!!!! If its blocked its super unsafe but if he goes through the ground portal and you're not blocking you get hit!!!! Im so tired of this move begin garbage!!!!

I want NRS to make a wall dive archetype character. Like Vega from SF or Choi from KOF. It's a play style that is totally absent from MK.
If they ever bring Mavado back i'd like him to play like Vega. Using his ropes to grapple to walls. Basically be like Spiderman lol. Brainiac was Vega like character right?
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Jade:

She'd be an anti-zoning character whose kit would revolve around keeping out rushdowners and getting in on zoners. For this purpose she'd have long-range frametraps which are unsafe, projectile avoidance and a teleport.
She'd require footsies and proper spacing / timing which could be blown up by someone like Cage if not used wisely, or outplayed by someone like Kitana if the Jade player does not know how to counterzone.
She'd be solid upper mid tier, balanced and honest with excellent normals and compelling specials. Fundamentally sound players would have a blast playing her.

DF1 - Straight Boomerang Toss. A fast startup mid projectile like Mournful Kitana's was. Meterburn to return for frame traps and a brutality where the MB version can be controlled to cut legs, head, or waist in half. Can be done in air.
DF4 - Shadow Kick. High, 0 on block. MB to make a mid, + on block and MB version can be cancelled for + frames and pressure on the next string. Would have to be tested so that it isn't nearly as compelling as ND cancels for Kabal were: Making it cost a bar is obvious but there needs to be some sort of control so it's not utterly stupid just adequately powerful. Brutality where the target's torso (normal version) gets kicked leaving the head and limbs to fall to the ground. MB Brutality where the target explodes.
DF2 - Staff Push. Mid. Lowers her hitbox, usable as AA. Pushback on block, groin smash stun on hit like her x-ray in mk9 akin to the Cage Signature Move. Restand. Creates advantage on hit, neutral on block. Hits of armor on the MB version. Brutality where the target's pelvis gets crushed.
DD3 - Teleport. Can be done in air. Unsafe, MB to make safe and launch for a combo.
BF3 - Green Glow. Immune to all forms of zoning, ranged attacks and moves, cannot use meter burn special moves while glowing. Meter Burn to allow additional meter burn moves and gain invincibility frames for 10f, taking double damage which cannot kill her.

1 - 6f Jab, +2 on block
2 - 11f mid, 0 on block
3 - 16f Overhead -8 on block
4 - High, anti-air kick with heavy cancel advantage, leads to an anti-air punish.

f1 - 18f long reaching staff overhead, catches airborne opponents and leads to a knockdown. Very negative on whiff.
b2 - Her old b2 from MK9: a long range launcher that's safe on block but very negative on whiff.
b3 - A low combo starter a bit like Tanya's. Should be fast but unsafe on block. None of Jade's mixups should be brainless, instead her overall playstyle should be based heavily on spacing and committing.
b4 - Jade's sweep should reach very far and be done with her staff. Lower her hitbox to low profile. Very unsafe on block and whiff.
u3 - Her old U3: double mid launcher. Can be followed up for a combo on hit.

Commas are gaps.
11,2 - jab, elbow, staff twirl. Massively negative on whiff, huge chip on the third hit on block, very positive on hit. 11 in itself is her fastest punish leading to massive damage.
23,f2 - Mid, jumpkick, staff strike. A long range advancing string that covers space. 23 a natural but unsafe combo starter, f2 to make safe via staff pushback on block. The jumpkick goes over lows.
3,21 - Overhead, high, high. The opponent gets hit with an axe kick and then elbowed twice. Jails into a standing state, 2 unsafe with cancel adv, 1 to make safe at 0 on block but then it does not cancel.
b34,34,34 - Low, high, repeating kicks. Juggle that keeps the opponent in the air extending combos.

Just some random ideas without much context. Who knows if this game will have mixups at all, after how mkx flunked on them.
 
Jade - I'd like her to be a poke/footsie character at staff length range. If she's outside of staff range she really can't do anything and if she's up close her best stings are unsafe. Her sweet spot should always be at staff range.

Quan - I don't think he will be in 11 but if he is i'd like him to play kinda like Warlock. An anti zoner who's decent up close. I'd like portal stab to not be ass and if it hits he grabs the opponent through the portal placing them in front of him in a captured state. I want Sky Drop to not be fucking garbage!!!!!!!! If its blocked its super unsafe but if he goes through the ground portal and you're not blocking you get hit!!!! Im so tired of this move begin garbage!!!!



If they ever bring Mavado back i'd like him to play like Vega. Using his ropes to grapple to walls. Basically be like Spiderman lol. Brainiac was Vega like character right?

Well brainiac doesn't actually perform any moves off a wall dive. That's kind of required for a wall dive char. But I see what you mean. Mavado would be a cool choice though.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
I want Frost in the game, but I honest to god have no idea how she actually played in the past. 12 year old me mained her in DA, but also had no clue what he was doing. And I can't exactly go back and lab her (which actually sounds like fun), since I no longer have a ps2 and that disk is long, long gone.

Based on her characterization, I would think she'd play rushdown, but rather than simply saying "Make her the new Cryomancer, done" I'd like to see her as hyper mobile and based around slides, preferably a few different kinds or the slide as a stance that can be canceled into multiple endings, most important imo being no ending at all. That way people would have to guess if there was an actual strike coming at all, making a mind game out of her approach on whether you go for the whiff punish or block and punish. Now that I write this down it sounds potentially cancerous, like if you gave Mileena the option to roll cancel, lol.
 

protools27

Rebel without a scene
I don’t want a specific playstyle as much as I want a variety of play styles. That’s something I thought injustice 1 did well, every char felt different and operated differently. In mkx it just felt like almost all the chars were designed to run in and mix.


I’ve always enjoyed the oki game and it to me was lackluster in mkx. I hope it comes back, but that offensive styles are just as rewarding as defensive ones.
 
I don't know how everyone would feel about this, but how about submission holds being added?
Similar to wrestling games, the submission hold can either be extended by the holder or shortened by the holdee by mashing buttons. Say, any button for a normal hold, but a specific sequence of buttons for the enhanced hold. Albeit similar to the command grab and regular throw, the submission hold could be another way to add depth.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
As a mixed martial artist- part of me wants more stuff like that but when im escaping a submission, it has nothing to do with mashing or just trying hard to escape, you have to do specific things and they can do things in response etc. its an interaction
 

chrisisnice

I'm a lover, not a fighter
#1 NO RUN MECHANIC.

Apart from that, I actually think each character had one variation which was inline with how they have played in the past. I'd be happy for these to return with minor adjustments and no run mechanic. I don't really have a list of specific stuff I want for each character (as in specific buttons etc), but basically

No run mechanic

Kitana... Royal Storm with Assassin Strike.
Tanya - Kobu with fireballs
Ermac - back to MK9
Mileena - Piercing

and no run mechanic

There... that is my shopping list.

Oh, yeah and NO RUN MECHANIC!

I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND... I HATE THE RUN MECHANIC!!!!

PS... no run mechanic pls.
 

SixPathsOfHate

Make triple skulls input BDF or DF Hold F
#1 NO RUN MECHANIC.

Apart from that, I actually think each character had one variation which was inline with how they have played in the past. I'd be happy for these to return with minor adjustments and no run mechanic. I don't really have a list of specific stuff I want for each character (as in specific buttons etc), but basically

No run mechanic

Kitana... Royal Storm with Assassin Strike.
Tanya - Kobu with fireballs
Ermac - back to MK9
Mileena - Piercing

and no run mechanic

There... that is my shopping list.

Oh, yeah and NO RUN MECHANIC!

I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND... I HATE THE RUN MECHANIC!!!!

PS... no run mechanic pls.
I dont know why people dont like the run mechanic. I liked the extra mobility it offered and was a nice touch imo. But every character should have 2 instead of 3 variations since 3 stretched them too thin.
 

SixPathsOfHate

Make triple skulls input BDF or DF Hold F
I want Frost in the game, but I honest to god have no idea how she actually played in the past. 12 year old me mained her in DA, but also had no clue what he was doing. And I can't exactly go back and lab her (which actually sounds like fun), since I no longer have a ps2 and that disk is long, long gone.

Based on her characterization, I would think she'd play rushdown, but rather than simply saying "Make her the new Cryomancer, done" I'd like to see her as hyper mobile and based around slides, preferably a few different kinds or the slide as a stance that can be canceled into multiple endings, most important imo being no ending at all. That way people would have to guess if there was an actual strike coming at all, making a mind game out of her approach on whether you go for the whiff punish or block and punish. Now that I write this down it sounds potentially cancerous, like if you gave Mileena the option to roll cancel, lol.
You can download a emulator and and https://www.emuparadise.me/Sony_Playstation_2_Emulators/Windows/41 this site has a shit ton of games including DA> https://www.emuparadise.me/Sony_Playstation_2_ISOs/Mortal_Kombat_-_Deadly_Alliance_(USA)/150610
 

DelSchokoladenSaft

Can of Corn Main
As a mixed martial artist- part of me wants more stuff like that but when im escaping a submission, it has nothing to do with mashing or just trying hard to escape, you have to do specific things and they can do things in response etc. its an interaction
That's pretty cool to think about. Maybe have a sequence of button presses at the right time to escape or keep the hold. I appreciate your input and point of view.

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Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Y'know, normally I don't go for this kind of thing. The previous times I've tried to get a game on an emulator, it's been more of a headache than it's worth, and I prefer to actually buy them. But how am I supposed to pay for a game this old with no re-release or anything? I think this'll be worth the trouble. Nostalgia is go
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
I dont know why people dont like the run mechanic. I liked the extra mobility it offered and was a nice touch imo.
"Extra" suggests we are comparing to something else. Obviously, if we compare this to MKX movement outside of running, we'll see that without it the mobility is not quite enough, perhaps, especially considering outright garbage dashes in that game.

On the other hand, we have I2 with its decent dashes and quick steps in the beginning of walking animations (as opposed to slow acceleration for most of MKX characters). Somehow it's often enough to just walk, huh.

Then there are games like GG where running exists and it's a different movement style, with its advantages and downsides. But at least you don't have to smash unnecessary extra keys to use it there.

Or there are games like Fantasy Strike where you don't even have to doubletap directional key to reach your character's top grounded speed towards/away from opponent.

I guess point being, while you can have different views on how movement should be, NRS did it in the way that checks at least one "this could've been done better" box you might have.

That's pretty cool to think about. Maybe have a sequence of button presses at the right time to escape or keep the hold. I appreciate your input and point of view.
Games like Tekken and DoA have this. In case of DoA it is sorta justified by this being a competition between two players on who is more precise about his timing. But I'm honestly not sure if we need to tack a rhythm mini-game on top of FG.
 

DelSchokoladenSaft

Can of Corn Main
"Extra" suggests we are comparing to something else. Obviously, if we compare this to MKX movement outside of running, we'll see that without it the mobility is not quite enough, perhaps, especially considering outright garbage dashes in that game.

On the other hand, we have I2 with its decent dashes and quick steps in the beginning of walking animations (as opposed to slow acceleration for most of MKX characters). Somehow it's often enough to just walk, huh.

Then there are games like GG where running exists and it's a different movement style, with its advantages and downsides. But at least you don't have to smash unnecessary extra keys to use it there.

Or there are games like Fantasy Strike where you don't even have to doubletap directional key to reach your character's top grounded speed towards/away from opponent.

I guess point being, while you can have different views on how movement should be, NRS did it in the way that checks at least one "this could've been done better" box you might have.


Games like Tekken and DoA have this. In case of DoA it is sorta justified by this being a competition between two players on who is more precise about his timing. But I'm honestly not sure if we need to tack a rhythm mini-game on top of FG.
I'm playing devil's advocate right now, so bear with me.
It sounds fun, but the rhythm game aspect is halfway of what I'm meaning.
In MK9, Kratos had a Quick Time event special move that almost all the time, people got. That's the other end of the spectrum compared to command grabs. Command grabs are these giant, bombastic moves that take away a lot of health, but it leaves the opponent with nothing to do but to wait for it to end. I was a Sun God main in MKX, and I loved it when I got his fully stacked Sun Choke. But it took forever for the opponent.
So I was thinking if there was a way to give agency to the opponent by being able to get out of command grabs in-game. But that kind of move already exists and is the regular throw. I wouldn't want the opponent to be able to get out of a command grab if I timed for a backbreaker to come out if the opponent whiffed a punch.
So the next thing that came to mind was the submission hold. It can function in between regular throws (that can be teched at the right time) for a moderate amount of damage; and command grabs (that cannot be escaped from and do more damage).

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Barrogh

Meta saltmine
Command grabs are these giant, bombastic moves that take away a lot of health, but it leaves the opponent with nothing to do but to wait for it to end. I was a Sun God main in MKX, and I loved it when I got his fully stacked Sun Choke. But it took forever for the opponent.
Well, it's actually an interesting way to look at the problem. FGs are not just neutral and basic offense/defense sometimes, and things like including these eyecandy moves while making them less obnoxious for the opponent is something to consider.

I guess it's all not unlike we have it in Tekken with King's death cradle (or whatever it's called) which does absolutely stupid damage, but requires extra inputs and can also be broken. Or entire Killer Instinct combo mini-game, as an example of how else such interaction can be done, although that one is more vast and fundamental to the gameplay.

Problems I see are mostly those:

1) Does it add to the game, or are you better off with sticking to FG basics and letting people to control their character normally (even if said control can be limited in good options while under pressure), or not at all, should there be a separate middle ground there?

2) If you want this inclusion to be good, how far are you willing to develop it trying to make it more meaningful, but keeping in mind that this will be very matchup-specific, and thus knowledge of your system will be unneeded, being very alien in any other matchups, should you overdo it?

3) And finally, if you implement extra inputs for attacker, can that end up in the "unnecessary complication" territory?
 

DelSchokoladenSaft

Can of Corn Main
I guess it's all not unlike we have it in Tekken with King's death cradle (or whatever it's called) which does absolutely stupid damage, but requires extra inputs and can also be broken. Or entire Killer Instinct combo mini-game, as an example of how else such interaction can be done, although that one is more vast and fundamental to the gameplay.

Problems I see are mostly those:

1) Does it add to the game, or are you better off with sticking to FG basics and letting people to control their character normally (even if said control can be limited in good options while under pressure), or not at all, should there be a separate middle ground there?

2) If you want this inclusion to be good, how far are you willing to develop it trying to make it more meaningful, but keeping in mind that this will be very matchup-specific, and thus knowledge of your system will be unneeded, being very alien in any other matchups, should you overdo it?

3) And finally, if you implement extra inputs for attacker, can that end up in the "unnecessary complication" territory?
I'm glad that you're taking time to critique my thinking in a meaningful way, friend. I'm wanting to be a game designer, so I'm trying to figure things out before they can come up. Let's see.

1) I believe it will add to the game. Mortal Kombat specifically is about super powered humans, gods, and robots fighting to the death. I would assume that their constitution will be akin to one another. So Kano putting Cyrax in an armbar should be doable if Johnny Cage can break a god's elbow and knee. There can be another middle ground, I'm pursuing this angle now though.

2) Not every character should have a submission hold, as not every character should have a command grab. Sometimes characters need to fulfill certain archetypes, like the super strong bear-wrestler, or the cocky actor who knows he can back up what he can say with a testicle crunch.
Likewise, there will be only be a few submission artists. People know how to counter grapplers. And people will learn how to counter submission artists. I've seen how you can escape throws in Tekken by inputting a specific button to not take as much damage, so I will say that submissions will be similar to that.
I will have a tutorial explaining how to escape sumbissions by pressing a button that controls any limb.

3) It can go into unnecessary input territory very easily. Maybe that's one thing that won't be implemented. Maybe that will only be for one character that can reverse submission escapes, I don't know. I want an opportunity to explore though.

Thank you for reading.