Improving the community: Why we MUST share our tech!

[God Confirm]

Some of the most competitive games in the world, games even more competitive than fighters, have perfectly polite communities so it's not that

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

Some of the most competitive games in the world, games even more competitive than fighters, have perfectly polite communities so it's not that

I'm assuming this has more to do with the age group FG's generally attract compared with some other competitive games.

 

[God Confirm]

I'm assuming this has more to do with the age group FG's generally attract compared with some other competitive games.

are you saying they are more adult or less? I would have thought its a similar age really

 

[Juggs]

To me, it’s very easy to see the reasoning behind not sharing tech. There’s a lot of money on the line, and the props aspect of getting top 8 or better. It makes perfect sense WHY people withhold tech, but what I’m trying to do here is explain why sharing tech is the better option in the long run.

No game is going to thrive for really any amount of time if hardly anyone is playing it. By thrive I mean getting good turnouts, pot bonuses, hell even being a main game at majors. The best way to ensure people are playing the game is if they’re competent. A great way to ensure players are competent is to share tech.

The thing is, top players for instance already share tech, but it’s mainly with other top players. Sure some actually do publicly share tech, but most don’t, and obviously it’s understandable. And I know for a fact some of them don’t want to share tech because they don’t want it criticized. They want to be able to post tech, get props, and that’s it. I know that’s what SOME of them want. But when people start poking holes or finding flaws, these players freak out and just stop sharing tech. The purpose of sharing tech isn’t for props or whatever, it’s to help the community. But it’s ALSO so that if there’s any flaws in the tech, it can be found much quicker if a bunch of people are testing it. But some of these players who post tech don’t want to hear it, which is kinda nutty. Our community specifically has an enormous obsession with props. Even things like “being one of the best with a certain character”, people get more obsessed with that than actually being a good player overall.

I just wish there were some magic words I could say that would convince everyone to share tech. It doesn’t ONLY benefit the community, it benefits EVERYONE. Yes, even the SonicFox’s benefit. Because more players for a longer period of time means more money.

 

[God Confirm]

And I know for a fact some of them don’t want to share tech because they don’t want it criticized. They want to be able to post tech, get props, and that’s it. I know that’s what SOME of them want. But when people start poking holes or finding flaws, these players freak out and just stop sharing tech. The purpose of sharing tech isn’t for props or whatever, it’s to help the community.

i dont know if it is or it isnt but this entire post just sounds like it's written about Pig of the Hut lol

 

[Juggs]

i dont know if it is or it isnt but this entire post just sounds like it's written about Pig of the Hut lol

Damn, shots fired, lol.

He has acted like that, but I have a lot of respect for Pig, so no it wasn’t specifically aimed at him.

 

[God Confirm]

Thinking tho it could just easily describe Tom Brady, F0xy, or most of the people that fucked off to twitter when finding out TYM wasn't going to be an echo chamber for their opinion. Pig was the first name that jumped to mind but thinking about it there a fair few.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The biggest problem with the FGC and TYM itself is that it is a highly competitive environment. This is a kind of an oxymoron as a competitive scene HAS to be competitive, it is its defining characteristic. Yet highly competitive environments are also, commonly, highly aggressive and combative. This leads the FGC to also be one of the more toxic gaming communities around, something common in many eSports. This toxicity is exasperated by the internet "charming" tendency to encourage bad behaviour barbecue of the lack of accountability when speaking to each other.

What I am getting at here is that there is a problem in how we as a community interact, Kappa, 8WayRun Shoruken and TYM are all famously hostile forums for its community members. Yet the reasons for it being toxic are, imo, directly tired into the base concept of competitive gaming.. it is competitive... and that attracts competitive personality types.

In a game there is about personal achievement and glorification it is not hard to see why things like hidden tech, bulling shit posting and stuff occurs... yet I do not think there is any real way to improve this.

It’s actually the opposite, though. This community is far less toxic than pretty much any other gaming community. Like, if you’re saying this, then you’re just not familiar with competitive games.

Playing CS:GO involves having racial obscenities yelled at you and random things being streamed into voice chat. Don’t even get me started on the forums and Reddit. It’s a whole other world.

League’s community was so famously toxic that the devs had to invent a system just to identify and help punish toxic players.

In Overwatch you might get hate just for picking the character you play. If you think the NRS community is toxic, you really don’t know what ‘toxic’ is.

But furthermore, no one cares about *you* in any of those other communities. You can’t just come in and interact with the best players, etc. Or the devs of those games. The people who make CS:GO aren’t hanging out in random community streams cracking jokes with the players. The admins of Shoryuken weren’t hanging out ready to answer questions, chop it up, or help people who had issues. It was ‘us’ and ‘them’.

This was the first community where I felt instantly welcomed by everybody. If I had questions, people answered them. If I wanted to talk to a player I just messaged them. I showed up at a convention and the Injustice devs treated me like part of the family even though we’d just met. I really felt the joy of being a deep participant in a community rather than just a bystander in it, and that’s something that lasts to this day.

A lot of players, several who are guys that you’re watching place in these majors, were kind enough to play games with me if I asked. I’m not going to go ask Seagull or Doublelift to play with me or give me pointers to improve — it’s not like they’d even answer the message.

But most importantly, this community has brought so many lasting friendships and associations. And that’s a camaraderie you can feel at events. When I went to DTN I enjoyed hanging out with everybody as people — just chilling at the Cheesecake factory with the whole Top 8 being silly or hanging out in Theo’s room watching Gross and Sonic play casuals and get salty at each other or w/e. That’s something I’m not going to be able to just walk into any other major competitive community and do, so I appreciate that spirit here.

Anyway, the NRS community is the one major gaming community out there where I’d say that if you can’t get along with people or can’t find your way, the problem is most likely YOU. And that’s extremely rare in competitive games.

 

[God Confirm]

It’s actually the opposite, though. This community is far less toxic than pretty much any other gaming community. Like, if you’re saying this, then you’re just not familiar with competitive games.

This is like, absolutely false and demonstrably so, and the fact that you could only give shitty mobas and cs:go as your examples makes your final sentence feel kind of ironic. Anyone with actual experience in onlinegaming knows how untrue this is, nobody is saying TYM is the worst there is but yeah it's pretty toxic here. Hell there's other FIGHTING GAME communities less toxic than ours let alone video gaming as a whole.

 

[God Confirm]

I'm not even complaining either, it just how it is here and I stopped caring about not being toxic ages ago, its the way of the road around here. I say things on here on a weekly basis that would leave me banned many times over on the forums for other games I play.

 

[scarsunseen]

I hate to say it, but sharing is caring, except when there's money involved. That's the way the world works, FGC or otherwise.

 

[The_Tile]

I hate to say it, but #BuffQuanChi

I couldn't have said it any better, bravo

 

[Juggs]

I hate to say it, but sharing is caring, except when there's money involved. That's the way the world works, FGC or otherwise.

Like I’ve said, the money angle isn’t a strong argument against sharing tech. Because in the long run, you’ll get more money for the reasons I’ve explained.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I'm not even complaining either, it just how it is here and I stopped caring about not being toxic ages ago, its the way of the road around here. I say things on here on a weekly basis that would leave me banned many times over on the forums for other games I play.

-Complains about people being toxic
-Is toxic

Good argument there

 

[scarsunseen]

Like I’ve said, the money angle isn’t a strong argument against sharing tech. Because in the long run, you’ll get more money for the reasons I’ve explained.

Agree to disagree

 

[Error]

That was even worse back in MKX

"known" is a meme Now

Sent from my HTC_D10u using Tapatalk

No meme, but it was actually pretty bad in MK9 too.

"Check found this in 2006"

 

[God Confirm]

-Complains about people being toxic
-Is toxic

Good argument there

What part of "I'm not complaining about people being toxic" at the start of my post did you manage to miss when making that response? I'm just saying you're wrong, so yeah it's a pretty good argument. Also I'm not even snarky to anyone who isn't aids themselves, it doesn't get moderated around here outside of specific cases so don't blame your members for not responding politely to it lol.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

looooooooooooool

let me say this to you:
DONT SHARE TECH!!!!
war has changed, dont let anybody fool you!

if you share tech, u dont have tech!

 

[Roy Arkon]

It’s actually the opposite, though. This community is far less toxic than pretty much any other gaming community. Like, if you’re saying this, then you’re just not familiar with competitive games.

Playing CS:GO involves having racial obscenities yelled at you and random things being streamed into voice chat. Don’t even get me started on the forums and Reddit. It’s a whole other world.

League’s community was so famously toxic that the devs had to invent a system just to identify and help punish toxic players.

In Overwatch you might get hate just for picking the character you play. If you think the NRS community is toxic, you really don’t know what ‘toxic’ is.

But furthermore, no one cares about *you* in any of those other communities. You can’t just come in and interact with the best players, etc. Or the devs of those games. The people who make CS:GO aren’t hanging out in random community streams cracking jokes with the players. The admins of Shoryuken weren’t hanging out ready to answer questions, chop it up, or help people who had issues. It was ‘us’ and ‘them’.

This was the first community where I felt instantly welcomed by everybody. If I had questions, people answered them. If I wanted to talk to a player I just messaged them. I showed up at a convention and the Injustice devs treated me like part of the family even though we’d just met. I really felt the joy of being a deep participant in a community rather than just a bystander in it, and that’s something that lasts to this day.

A lot of players, several who are guys that you’re watching place in these majors, were kind enough to play games with me if I asked. I’m not going to go ask Seagull or Doublelift to play with me or give me pointers to improve — it’s not like they’d even answer the message.

But most importantly, this community has brought so many lasting friendships and associations. And that’s a camaraderie you can feel at events. When I went to DTN I enjoyed hanging out with everybody as people — just chilling at the Cheesecake factory with the whole Top 8 being silly or hanging out in Theo’s room watching Gross and Sonic play casuals and get salty at each other or w/e. That’s something I’m not going to be able to just walk into any other major competitive community and do, so I appreciate that spirit here.

Anyway, the NRS community is the one major gaming community out there where I’d say that if you can’t get along with people or can’t find your way, the problem is most likely YOU. And that’s extremely rare in competitive games.

Really? I had no idea, well that's great to know that this is actually a much more preferable community to be a part of.

About sharing tech, it is indeed only helpful, but like @scarsunseen said it is only up until the money winning part starts, this is not even about online popularity and props anymore, as most tournies are played offline anyway.

Of course that internet props still has and online still has something to do with this issue, which leads me to the main point of this post. @Tom Brady not too long ago made this video on what he calls "the online bottleneck effect", which basically says that since the netcode of NRS games got a lot better, all of the non-pro players or at least a huge amount of them has fall into the misconception that they should only play against the really top players in order to improve, and if it's another no-pro player like them or a top player that they just happen to beat easily because of whatever reason, they don't wanna play them. But what happens here is that all of the top players are a much smaller group, and they can't play all of the non-pro players at once. As a result, all of the pro players get all of the experince, and all of the non-pro players who didn't have a chance to play against them just sit there doing nothing, and then everyone gets board (the pro players for destroying everyone who isn't at there level, and the non-pro players for just sitting there and not play at all) and then fall into ANOTHER HUGE MISCONCEPTION that the game itself is boring, instead of this scenario that they got themselves into, and because of this misconception, less and less players play the game and therefore, there are less players and tournies.

Back to the props thing, Tom also goes on to mention internet props by saying that non-top players think that by them performing well on a stream of a top player, or even win, the will get instant popularity without going into Top 8's at all, even online Top 8's. And he also says that other guys who are non top players can still be great opponents to play, but people don't realize that.

I agree with Tom 110%, and I will go on say that this might the true problem here.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Really? I had no idea, well that's great to know that this is actually a much more preferable community to be a part of.

About sharing tech, it is indeed only helpful, but like @scarsunseen said it is only up until the money winning part starts, this is not even about online popularity and props anymore, as most tournies are played offline anyway.

Of course that internet props still has and online still has something to do with this issue, which leads me to the main point of this post. @Tom Brady not too long ago made this video on what he calls "the online bottleneck effect", which basically says that since the netcode of NRS games got a lot better, all of the non-pro players or at least a huge amount of them has fall into the misconception that they should only play against the really top players in order to improve, and if it's another no-pro player like them or a top player that they just happen to beat easily because of whatever reason, they don't wanna play them. But what happens here is that all of the top players are a much smaller group, and they can't play all of the non-pro players at once. As a result, all of the pro players get all of the experince, and all of the non-pro players who didn't have a chance to play against them just sit there doing nothing, and then everyone gets board (the pro players for destroying everyone who isn't at there level, and the non-pro players for just sitting there and not play at all) and then fall into ANOTHER HUGE MISCONCEPTION that the game itself is boring, instead of this scenario that they got themselves into, and because of this misconception, less and less players play the game and therefore, there are less players and tournies.

Back to the props thing, Tom also goes on to mention internet props by saying that non-top players think that by them performing well on a stream of a top player, or even win, the will get instant popularity without going into Top 8's at all, even online Top 8's. And he also says that other guys who are non top players can still be great opponents to play, but people don't realize that.

I agree with Tom 110%, and I will go on say that this might the true problem here.

2 important points here:

1) Better players in any sport or game are going to play against players that level them up (or at least maintain their current level). This is to be expected and is definitely not out of the ordinary.

Kobe Bryant isn’t going to spend a lot of time playing pickup ball against guys he can dust 300-0. Imo once things get serious, this is what you have to do. It’s no longer just about (grinding sets) and more about actually training with a purpose, so you play more people who will help you shore up specific things you’re working on.

2) With that said, good players do play sets with people below their level all the time. But usually with people who A) Are cool and B) Actually care more about getting better than going on stream and bragging about the set or trying to get props. Numerous players who are either top offline or online have been cool enough to run sets with me, and I’m by no means a tournament player. But I’m cool about it, I don’t act like I’m *entitled* to games whenever I want, and these are people I’d socialize with anyway.

Some of these people saying they can’t get games are held back by personally issues, not just how good they are. And even if you’re theoretically not good enough to play the absolute best every day, then play the guys below them until you’re at their level or better, and then move up. Make some waves, shake things up, and people will come for you.

The bottom line is that entitlement doesn’t get you far, but being cool and willing to learn can get you a long way.

 

[Roy Arkon]

2 important points here:

1) Better players in any sport or game are going to play against players that level them up (or at least maintain their current level). This is to be expected and is definitely not out of the ordinary.

Kobe Bryant isn’t going to spend a lot of time playing pickup ball against guys he can dust 300-0. Imo once things get serious, this is what you have to do. It’s no longer just about (grinding sets) and more about actually training with a purpose, so you play more people who will help you shore up specific things you’re working on.

2) With that said, good players do play sets with people below their level all the time. But usually with people who A) Are cool and B) Actually care more about getting better than going on stream and bragging about the set or trying to get props. Numerous players who are either top offline or online have been cool enough to run sets with me, and I’m by no means a tournament player. But I’m cool about it, I don’t act like I’m *entitled* to games whenever I want, and these are people I’d socialize with anyway.

Some of these people saying they can’t get games are held back by personally issues, not just how good they are. And even if you’re theoretically not good enough to play the absolute best every day, then play the guys below them until you’re at their level or better, and then move up. Make some waves, shake things up, and people will come for you.

The bottom line is that entitlement doesn’t get you far, but being cool and willing to learn can get you a long way.

Well Tom did say one of the problem is indeed these non-pro players are looking for props and bragging rights, in addition to the other issues he mentioned. And he also said that if you're training, you can find other players that are not the pros but still great and play with them and improve.

But yes if a player being entitled that is also an issue, so yes you also have a great point there.

 

[Juggs]

I was just thinking about this topic and thread, so I’m bumping it. I still think it’s very important for our community tbh.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

I was just thinking about this topic and thread, so I’m bumping it. I still think it’s very important for our community tbh.

I’ll never tell anyone my secret of losing to anyone even with the match up being on my side.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

There aren't many characters with tech

Every geras variation (bc he's blessed with great variety of tools)
Spare change, deadly rebel has videos there's like 3 set ups total (SF said he didn't like spare change bc the dot didn't compliment his strings at all)
Jacqui (bc she blessed with a great variety of tools)
Buzzed (prob the most depth of any character in the game imo)
Joker set up variation
Terminator set up variation

Maybe one or two others
Other than that it's poke strike throw, and reading your opponents pattern of poke strike throw.

I agree with Cherny that this game is very very read heavy. That's the true tech imo

 

[Tony at Home]

There aren't many characters with tech

Which character doesn't have tech?