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My Manta MU Chart: Version 2

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
So, I don't think there's a single 8-2 or 9-1 in this game so we're just gonna remove that from the conversation. However, I do want to present my definition's of what I consider a 6-4/4-6 or a 7-3/3-7.

6-4 = one character has a slight advantage over the other but the losing character can still implement their gameplan, get it started, doesn't have to sacrifice tools in the MU to win. The risk/reward for the losing character can be easily outweighed by better decision making.

7-3 = The winning character prevents the losing one from doing what they do best to an oppressive extent. Some characters can't use certain valuable tools due to lack of opportunity to do so or risk in using those tools opposed to the reward. Even if you have the better decision making, in the MU you have to make more better decisions than the other guy does.

I've also gotten a lot better at this game, as well as am playing with much better people on the whole. My list kind of shifted radically.

  • Aquaman = 5-5
  • Atom = 5-5
  • Atrocitus = 5-5
  • Bane = 6-4
  • Batman = 6.4
  • Black Adam = 5-5 but could be 6-4. Black Adam removes a lot of your air game.
  • Black Canary = 7-3. Turtle and make her come to you, her forward movement options are super sus and risky if your footsies are good.
  • Black Manta = 5-5
  • Blue Beetle = 5-5
  • Brainiac = 5-5 but it sure feels like a 4-6 sometimes. Anti airing is extremely hard.
  • Captain Cold = 6-4
  • Catwoman = 5-5 IF you have a long stage to walk her back, 4-6 if the stage is small.
  • Cheetah = 7-3
  • Cyborg = 6-4
  • Darkseid = 7-3
  • Deadshot = 5-5
  • Enchantress = 6-4
  • Firestorm = 5-5
  • Flash = 3-7
  • Gorilla Grodd = 6-4
  • Green Arrow = 4-6
  • Green Lantern = 4-6
  • Harely Quinn = 4-6
  • Hellboy = 5-5
  • Joker = 6-4
  • Poison Ivy = 4-6
  • Raiden = 7-3
  • Red Hood = 5-5
  • Robin = 6-4
  • Scarecrow = 5-5
  • Starfire = 5-5
  • Sub-Zero = 3-7
  • Supergirl = 5-5
  • Superman = 6-4
  • Swamp Thing = 7-3
  • Wonder Woman = 3-7. You can't out neutral her, you have no way to punish shield toss at max range, and she doesn't have to come to you. Lots of other small details make this MU kind of hell.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I don't see how it's even remotely possible for Cheetah to lose 7-3 to Manta, that just sounds extremely outrageous.
I'm more tempted to say 6-4 but I'm also making the assumption I don't have enough high level Cheetah experience yet to say for sure. On paper he definitely 7-3's her though.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Wonder Woman does not 7-3 him lol...
Not being able to punish shield toss at max range is not a big deal, especially with his great dashes and walkspeed, he can punish it at good distances.

This is a 6-4 IMO. She 7-3's quite a few characters but Manta is defninitely not one of them.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Wonder Woman does not 7-3 him lol...
Not being able to punish shield toss at max range is not a big deal, especially with his great dashes and walkspeed, he can punish it at good distances.

This is a 6-4 IMO. She 7-3's quite a few characters but Manta is defninitely not one of them.
I said there's a lot of other reasons. Manta takes all the risk in the MU.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Lead Moderator
I'm more tempted to say 6-4 but I'm also making the assumption I don't have enough high level Cheetah experience yet to say for sure. On paper he definitely 7-3's her though.
On paper, Cheetah should probably lose most match ups, but paper doesn't translate properly to real world application. Her mobility, speed, damage/come back factor all trump her losing the neutral against most characters.

We have played before and granted the connection was suspect, nothing from those matches should have led you to continue to believe this is 7-3 since it wasn't even in the slight advantage or even territory.

Cheetah still gets her oki, his wake up game isn't a huge issue and he doesn't shut her down in any way relevant enough to even consider 7-3, I'm not even sold on 6-4 because a credible case has not been made any of the times I've seen the match up listed as that bad.

If you can't explain it, show it in matches.
 

Zed

BOONKGANGWHOLELOTTAGANGSHIT
I also dont think canary loses 7-3. I definitely think its 6-4 but 7-3 means the mu is next to unwinnable and i don't find that to be true at all.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I also dont think canary loses 7-3. I definitely think its 6-4 but 7-3 means the mu is next to unwinnable and i don't find that to be true at all.
If I play the way I described it looks very hopeless.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
But you are so fucked on kd man idk. Also canary low profiles the forward advancing string with d3 so you can't really try to just play footsies.
That's why you make her do all the work. You're right about d3 and f213. That's why you don't use it.
 

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
manta does not get 7-3d by wowo lol, shark attack punishes shield toss from every range except max, and instant air punishes from max im pretty sure could be wrong on that, but that mu is not 7-3. Darkseid doesnt lose 7-3 either more like 6-4
 
5-5? scarecrow? bro i think that mu is like 7-3 or 8-2 manta can just use rockets 24/7 on scarecrow and has a better forward advancing mid.
 

Jinxx

9 Lives
Ivy vs manta is 5-5(according to Fox he wins). Manta beats Catwoman 6-4. Sonic was able to prove why she loses it and semiij, rewind all agree. That's all I have to comment on.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
Cheetah might beat manta.

Hard to say when you haven't played sonic fox but matchup is 5-5
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Am I reading this right to see that Batman loses to Manta? Why?
I don't have enough experience to speak to him losing but if I had to guess it's because of stuff like teleport always being play, he has some zoning to contend with and Batman doesn't seem like he has great tools to deal with Manta's pressure. Batman's d1 is mediocre and he might have issues punishing laser.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
3-7 against Sub?

How?
It's the way he essentially freezes (pun not intended) neutral cause of clone. Also because of reach technicalities/move startup times, it's extremely hard for Manta to get out of the corner in a way other characters don't have to deal with. SZ has superb air to airs and anti airs so Manta's air approach is somewhat hard. People who aren't Sub downplayers tend to agree he wins the MU, if not 7-3's Manta.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I don't have enough experience to speak to him losing but if I had to guess it's because of stuff like teleport always being play, he has some zoning to contend with and Batman doesn't seem like he has great tools to deal with Manta's pressure. Batman's d1 is mediocre and he might have issues punishing laser.
Basically. The MU was even pre-patch cause meter build and Bat cooldown allowed Batman to keep Manta out or in check. Now that Batman has to be more conservative with his meter, he isn't as free to simply push block you back into dealing with trait neutral. Batman has to be almost point blank to punish meterless laser. The j2 nerf also made it much easier for Manta to anti air him reliably.