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The Grindstone, Training Network. Find training partners/lvl up/git gud.

EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Ok well, I did get up but can't sit down for extended sets, leave for work shortly, so just labbing for a bit before I go. Lots to work on with this Beetle stuff.

Why do people think he has low damage again? I mean, even his one bar stuff is ok. Poverty BNB - 326ish, corner carry BNB - 302ish, proper BNB - 365... And that's without the jump-in that usually starts beetles midscreen stuff... Granted his damage isn't stellar without the 111 starter, but still.
 
Flamelurkr

Flamelurkr

Noob
EntropicByDesign said:
Ok well, I did get up but can't sit down for extended sets, leave for work shortly, so just labbing for a bit before I go. Lots to work on with this Beetle stuff.

Why do people think he has low damage again? I mean, even his one bar stuff is ok. Poverty BNB - 326ish, corner carry BNB - 302ish, proper BNB - 365... And that's without the jump-in that usually starts beetles midscreen stuff... Granted his damage isn't stellar without the 111 starter, but still.
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I have a friend I play with every night. He's a tekken main but won mercy rushdown 2 in New York. He's solid. He mains Batman but I have a harder time with his beetle. He has so many options off that 11 string, idk the buttons.

Anyways he complains about beetles availability good damage rather than where or not he has good damage. It seems it's just hard for him to get good damage or set up for good damage off of stray hits. Idk everything about beetle but thats what I get from playing him. I've honestly wondered whats holding beetle back but idk.
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Flamelurkr said:
I have a friend I play with every night. He's a tekken main but won mercy rushdown 2 in New York. He's solid. He mains Batman but I have a harder time with his beetle. He has so many options off that 11 string, idk the buttons.

Anyways he complains about beetles availability good damage rather than where or not he has good damage. It seems it's just hard for him to get good damage or set up for good damage off of stray hits. Idk everything about beetle but thats what I get from playing him. I've honestly wondered whats holding beetle back but idk.
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Yeah, I can see that, he does need sort of specific confirms to lead into his damage.

His meterbuild is just *insane*, Akio was showing me some lab stuff this morning and demonstrated.. I knew it was good but had no idea it was *that* good, it being so incredibly good makes bounce cancels far more practical on Beetle than many other characters. A lot of his offense is sort of loop based as well, letting him really dig in to building meter during block strings. Beetle does 450+ damage off his poverty BNB to Superman with a bounce cancel. That's nutso.

But, you're right in it being somewhat situational. Off a raw b2 (oh) or df1.mb (low starter/launcher) it doesn't scale super well, and his f23 string seems to scale very heavily.

I honestly feel like Beetle is upper mid at the absolute worst, and quite possibly stronger. He has some whiffing issues and I feel like he's very matchup dependant on how he's played, so takes longer to learn than most, and he breaks a few of the games "rules" like bounce cancels (imo) being a core part of his offense, etc. And his execution isn't super insane, but it's not brain-dead easy either.

I think he's under-represented because he's not easy to play, and requires you to play differently between matchups, as opposed to haveing a 90% universal gameplan.
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Id have been down for the KOTh but I'm at work.. I used to bring my PS4 with me, but every time I got done early and couldn't down and had a choice between PS4 and sleep.. it's hard not to choose sleep lol.


I'll be on in the morning though for anyone else that's up then.
 
Flamelurkr

Flamelurkr

Noob
EntropicByDesign said:
Yeah, I can see that, he does need sort of specific confirms to lead into his damage.

His meterbuild is just *insane*, Akio was showing me some lab stuff this morning and demonstrated.. I knew it was good but had no idea it was *that* good, it being so incredibly good makes bounce cancels far more practical on Beetle than many other characters. A lot of his offense is sort of loop based as well, letting him really dig in to building meter during block strings. Beetle does 450+ damage off his poverty BNB to Superman with a bounce cancel. That's nutso.

But, you're right in it being somewhat situational. Off a raw b2 (oh) or df1.mb (low starter/launcher) it doesn't scale super well, and his f23 string seems to scale very heavily.

I honestly feel like Beetle is upper mid at the absolute worst, and quite possibly stronger. He has some whiffing issues and I feel like he's very matchup dependant on how he's played, so takes longer to learn than most, and he breaks a few of the games "rules" like bounce cancels (imo) being a core part of his offense, etc. And his execution isn't super insane, but it's not brain-dead easy either.

I think he's under-represented because he's not easy to play, and requires you to play differently between matchups, as opposed to haveing a 90% universal gameplan.
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Bro you nailed it. I would love to see what you have learned so I know how play it but also to show my friend. The only thing is if his bounce cancels become a core part of the game then how does he build enough meter to sustain against ds? I'm saying ds because he's the best zoner but other zoners might apply.

Plus that fckin wake up! Lol
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Flamelurkr said:
Bro you nailed it. I would love to see what you have learned so I know how play it but also to show my friend. The only thing is if his bounce cancels become a core part of the game then how does he build enough meter to sustain against ds? I'm saying ds because he's the best zoner but other zoners might apply.

Plus that fckin wake up! Lol
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The trick with what I have learned is putting it into action, lol. It takes me hundreds of matches to get even basic stuff down - but we'll see lol.

And yeah, Beetle is super super matchup-centric, he has a kind of one-kit-fits-all set of abilities, but how he uses them and plays the MU is def different per character, so vs hard zoners I don't know. Brand New to him so def don't have MU insight yet.. but just theory crafting in my head, vs someone like DS you'd have to be super careful about bounce cancels since he's likely got enough meter to air tech right out early on, and building meter vs deadshot is PROBABLY (again I'm just theory crafting) not something he can do well , not like in other MUs where he has ample amounts. Vs any decent DS you won't be running blockstrings pressure and I can't imagine you could ever keep up.in a zoning war. So vs him, it would a very different style than vs someone you have a strong meter advantage over.
 
JBeezYBabY

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
Last night was E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G!

@AkioOf100 You're fucking HILARIOUS everytime you say my name! Every time i enter in the room, YOU are gonna be my intro hahahah

And OH MY SWEET GURKENS your Blue Beetle is BEAST! But my "Son Of Prince" Sub Zero did get some wins. And i feel im really improving on him. I just need to work on my punishes and anti-pokes. THAT requires going in depth of frame date for each character. DAMN! That's gonna be some research for my Black ass, but id rather play and figure it out on the battle field.

But thanks for the games and the laughs. And already need another bottle of wine....damnit @Flamelurkr WHERE DA FUCK WERE YOU!? Drinkin' by myself n shit...:DOGE
 
AkioOf100

AkioOf100

I play Raph
JBeezYBabY said:
Last night was E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G!

@AkioOf100 You're fucking HILARIOUS everytime you say my name! Every time i enter in the room, YOU are gonna be my intro hahahah

And OH MY SWEET GURKENS your Blue Beetle is BEAST! But my "Son Of Prince" Sub Zero did get some wins. And i feel im really improving on him. I just need to work on my punishes and anti-pokes. THAT requires going in depth of frame date for each character. DAMN! That's gonna be some research for my Black ass, but id rather play and figure it out on the battle field.

But thanks for the games and the laughs. And already need another bottle of wine....damnit @Flamelurkr WHERE DA FUCK WERE YOU!? Drinkin' by myself n shit...:DOGE
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You were GREAT. I already know we're gonna be great friends and training partners. Can't wait to watch you grow!
 
AkioOf100

AkioOf100

I play Raph
EntropicByDesign said:
The trick with what I have learned is putting it into action, lol. It takes me hundreds of matches to get even basic stuff down - but we'll see lol.

And yeah, Beetle is super super matchup-centric, he has a kind of one-kit-fits-all set of abilities, but how he uses them and plays the MU is def different per character, so vs hard zoners I don't know. Brand New to him so def don't have MU insight yet.. but just theory crafting in my head, vs someone like DS you'd have to be super careful about bounce cancels since he's likely got enough meter to air tech right out early on, and building meter vs deadshot is PROBABLY (again I'm just theory crafting) not something he can do well , not like in other MUs where he has ample amounts. Vs any decent DS you won't be running blockstrings pressure and I can't imagine you could ever keep up.in a zoning war. So vs him, it would a very different style than vs someone you have a strong meter advantage over.
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Deadshot matchup playstyle for beetle is very read heavy. Beetle has to trick the deadshot into letting him in by doing air flight and instantly cancelling it and sometimes throwing out a MB projectile, just to rid of that low projectile (also Beetle's MB cannon is +30 at least from full screen on block, guaranteeing at least two dashes if you time it right). Once you're in, beetle has to get out his offense before deadshot can run his mix and drive him into the corner where you can basically smother deadshot with pressure and he has very little answer to it aside from wakeup knee. His wakeup knee can't really be stuffed unless you bait it out with a well-timed projectile. You can switch his controls on wakeup with most of beetle's setups however and make it a living hell for him in the corner. Also, beetle has a universal restand with b1, so wakeups can be eliminated.

Basically play your way inward until you can harrass deadshot in the corner.

Alternatively, if you're sorta stuck in that mid-range stagger pressure from Deadshot. Beetle's power blades do very well against him in that range, standing 1 is 7 frames and a high, beating out almost all of deadshot's normals and specials from a very respectable range. Beetle's f2 is a 14 frame anti-airing, combo starting mid, that is also a HKD, which can easily check deadshot from mid-range. Beetle's bf3 (in trait) can low profile deadshot's hand cannons and punish him for attempting to use them in extended ranges.

Just watch out for trick shots and instant air cannons! :)
 
JBeezYBabY

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
AkioOf100 said:
You were GREAT. I already know we're gonna be great friends and training partners. Can't wait to watch you grow!
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Hell yeah yeah YEAH! That session was complete LIFE! And that's how its suppose to be. Good gamers, having good sessions, and most importantly having FUN! Even though i was getting my ass kicked, but I retained alot on how pro players really get down. And i most def can adapt because thats my play style. READING!

I SOOOOO look forward to train with you again. Im the Dan to your Ryu....or something....lol
 
AkioOf100

AkioOf100

I play Raph
JBeezYBabY said:
Hell yeah yeah YEAH! That session was complete LIFE! And that's how its suppose to be. Good gamers, having good sessions, and most importantly having FUN! Even though i was getting my ass kicked, but I retained alot on how pro players really get down. And i most def can adapt because thats my play style. READING!

I SOOOOO look forward to train with you again. Im the Dan to your Ryu....or something....lol
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Yesssss you're really good at adapting and learning other people's playstyle and patterns. That's gonna come in handy! Ayy we live baby xD
 
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