I don't believe we've ever played..i can 5-0 you in this game and beat you in a set in every NRS game since MK9. stop antagonizing me
But me mopping you in a set wouldn't make these matchup opinions any better
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I don't believe we've ever played..i can 5-0 you in this game and beat you in a set in every NRS game since MK9. stop antagonizing me
What version of the game are you playing that isn't full of guessing? Every character has 50/50s or ambiguous cross ups or frame traps or unreactable footsies moves or other tools that require hard reads to deal withyoure right about the guessing if theres something in the game you 100% cant react to and have to guess (like a vortex) then yes it can go any way regardless of matchup. other than that nah
if this game was 100% guessing there wouldn't be any consistency in tournament and it wouldn't have to do with skill. No every character does not have 50/50s and ambiguous cross ups lol I'm done with this convo, nice chat thoWhat version of the game are you playing that isn't full of guessing? Every character has 50/50s or ambiguous cross ups or frame traps or unreactable footsies moves or other tools that require hard reads to deal with
You're not good, I am. stop replying to my messagesI don't believe we've ever played..
But me mopping you in a set wouldn't make these matchup opinions any better
No one said it was 100% guessing, there's no way to read what I wrote and get that - you're changing the argument because you can't support your own point. We're talking about matches between evenly skilled players that are close enough that 1 wrong guess can cost the better character the match. That's half the reason why we play sets in tournament instead of one and done - to help control the parts of the game that aren't strictly skill based. Anybody who plays a low tier character knows that sometimes you can get matches off good players in losing match ups due to one or two lucky guesses. But I guess you don't get that because you're bad at the game even though you use a fundamentally strong character like GL and you don't understand fighting games in generalif this game was 100% guessing there wouldn't be any consistency in tournament and it wouldn't have to do with skill. No every character does not have 50/50s and ambiguous cross ups lol I'm done with this convo, nice chat tho
I'll do my best hahaIn the hands of true pros, however, it doesn't matter if one character controls the pace 90% of the time as long as the other character doesn't just control the pace but outright murders that other 10% of the time. That's a different kind of balance most less-than-top players don't comprehend and you see it here all the time with characters who often have to work their way in just like Gief does, such as The Flash and Scarecrow. And yet we've seen what both are capable of in the hands of true pros.
So TL;DR: good luck discussing matchups with the masses here, buddy.
Thanks, I glanced at the Cyborg buff thread but I was like...nah I don't want any part of that. I don't feel I'm at a level (nor have traveled enough) to feel I'm playing this character at the highest level. School and work has been rough, but I'll still try to update these character forum threads. Hope is to get to every character.Seems like in the various character discussions peope are more interested in discussing tier lists and buffs/nerfs than discussing matchups.
@Protagonist_1 Thanks for the hard work, as someone who's trying to learn Cyborg, the Cyborg forums have been a godsend.
I have a thread that I want to make on matchup numbers and why I feel they are pretty pointless as compared to actual matchup discussion. @Johnny Based Cage pretty much hit the nail on the head though in that department, how matchup numbers are determined are pretty laughable (I myself have been guilty of this in the past) which is why I will no longer talk in matchup numbers.Its completely subjective. "my friend bodies me with swamp thing while I am playing deadshot. That is an 8-2 swamp thing favorable mu"
Thanks I really appreciate this. I can begin to explain how much work goes into these threads. If anyone has the chance to make one, you'll start to realize how little you actually know about a matchup because there are so many scenarios in game.I've read the Cyborg mu threads that you've posted and they are honestly incredible. Very in-depth stuff. I can't guarantee I'll be as specific as you are in your threads but I think this site could be vastly improved by this kind of analysis.
This. So much this.Before we used to get into every possible detail to change the tide of a MU chart, even during the MK9. Just ask @xKhaoTik or Scar, we used to have some super detailed MU regarding our characters even before.
BOIIIIII.But you said 5/5 or 6/4, there's no severe advantage or disadvantage there. And even if you want to apply that logic to a 2-8 match up or something, there's going to matches where the disadvantaged character makes a good read and puts them in the corner and takes the match. There's so much guessing in high level fighting games - probability and inconsistency are built into the game.
Damn, I really do miss the activity matchup threads had back during MK9. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't all gumdrops and roses back then easier but people were more into discussing matchup details than today.This. So much this.
This is why TYM is dog shit these days compared to MK9 days. Aside from all the top players leaving and the hype dying down, the actual worthy content is non-existent now.
There used to be so much detail when MUs are discussed. It wasn't exactly organized like Protagonist wants it to be (not a bad idea), but it was all there. Take a look at this thread for example:
https://testyourmight.com/threads/smoke-match-up-discussion-thread-2012-post-evo-update.25487/page-4
MUs were discussed down to the tiniest details. I used to come here and read info for hours and feel I gained so much MU experience without actually playing that MU.
Well making a video solves all that, lol. Gathering facts and realistic scenarios is far more important in MU discussion than who gets the most top 8s.The problem is 95% of us suck and think our opinions matter. For example, imagine a Street Fighter forum if you will, filled with filthy casuals comparing their own online sets to discuss the Zangief/Guile matchup. Do you think it would even remotely reflect what happens when top players like Du and Snake Eyes or ISDD and Stupendous face off in grand finals?
HELL NAW. Everyone who lacks those kinds of fundamentals, that level of patience and understanding, the ability to make incredible reads, and so on and so forth would shut that shit down real quick like it's 9-1 Guile's favor because they can't even get in once ever let alone do anything worthwhile if they do.
In the hands of true pros, however, it doesn't matter if one character controls the pace 90% of the time as long as the other character doesn't just control the pace but outright murders that other 10% of the time. That's a different kind of balance most less-than-top players don't comprehend and you see it here all the time with characters who often have to work their way in just like Gief does, such as The Flash and Scarecrow. And yet we've seen what both are capable of in the hands of true pros.
So TL;DR: good luck discussing matchups with the masses here, buddy.