What's new

MAJOR Sub-Zero issue

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
In open space vs some character, the strat is very powerful.
I see. I will still try to work on it while also get a few combos (not to many of course to not confuse myself with the strategy). We will see what NRS do regarding Sub-Zero. Maybe a hotfix will come before the patch and show that this whole pushback thing was nothing but a bug like it happened with Scarecrow and his Wakeups.

Thanks anyway Tom.
 

STB BroZki

Don’t know what to put here
Currently I can't lab but I was wondering if you had a list ready showing which characters fall under the Superman, Aquaman, and now atro archetypes of pushback? If not I can lab it later
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Tried to lab it a bit in the corner. It's no good, because in any distance Sub is the character gets KD fast, thus making any afterattack impossible to land after the 15fps advantage. :/
 
I think Sub has an amazing neutral game, so if you can't apply the endless klone safe pressure, I wouldn't say it's the end of the world. If it is addressed in the patch then he will be great, if it's working as intended he will still be upper mid, because of his tools. Either way though Sub will lose certain mu's. If Aqua had the same push back as Supes how much would that actually change the match up? Brady would know the best since he uses both and if it tips the match up then it is worth really trying to get NRS' attention. Also a patch is coming and for all we know Aqua shits the bed so we'll see. Sub is super fuckin fun though
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I think Sub has an amazing neutral game, so if you can't apply the endless klone safe pressure, I wouldn't say it's the end of the world. If it is addressed in the patch then he will be great, if it's working as intended he will still be upper mid, because of his tools. Either way though Sub will lose certain mu's. If Aqua had the same push back as Supes how much would that actually change the match up? Brady would know the best since he uses both and if it tips the match up then it is worth really trying to get NRS' attention. Also a patch is coming and for all we know Aqua shits the bed so we'll see. Sub is super fuckin fun though
Very true.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
im gonna hope this is a bug and put sub zero off to the side, if it isnt, then i'm probably going to use someone else. not about to try and scrounge and scrape for stuff that kinda works but not really in order to try and get around it either.
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
Tired of NRS implementing all this funky pushback on block. In MKX there were a lot of unsafe moves that were practically made safe by the ungodly amount of pushback. Now on the other end of things, we have plus frames that we can't utilize because of pushback. I don't know if it's intended, but if it is, I really don't agree with it.
 

Reauxbot

You think you bad? You aint bad.
NRS has based so many patches on feedback that we have this mentality of, this strategy I want to work doesnt work so please make it work
This is an excellent post. I was thinking the same thing. If he had those options available in the corner it'd be madness.
 
NRS has based so many patches on feedback that we have this mentality of, this strategy I want to work doesnt work so please make it work
This is an excellent post. I was thinking the same thing. If he had those options available in the corner it'd be madness.
No, it would not be madness. It would not be OP, broken, insane, etc... SZ doesnt use the clone as a primary weapon in this game. His strings are all full combo punished, special cancels have gaps, etc.. He is a trapping character with MB DB1 being his primary weapon. Now you think he would do what exactly without it??

See, you guys dont get it. You think that people like me just find the strat I want to work and ask for it to work. This was the last thing i thought, not the first. I literally looked for option after option, strat after strat all in failure. Then I realized "what if the clone is not is primary option? maybe I am looking at the wrong tool" and this strat was born.

He has no 50/50, command throw is unusable.. all that is fine and well. However, take this away and he doesnt have any sort of gameplan.
 
It's fine Tom... They intended to Him to be Dan of this game. and just like in MK9.... a low tier character... They even trolled the hell out of Sub Zero mains with the function-kneeing properly string. and just like the string. The character is a joke. Sad... but It's reality.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
It's fine Tom... They intended to Him to be Dan of this game. and just like in MK9.... a low tier character... They even trolled the hell out of Sub Zero mains with the function-kneeing properly string. and just like the string. The character is a joke. Sad... but It's reality.
I need a dislike button, can somebody ban this troll?
 

Reauxbot

You think you bad? You aint bad.
No, it would not be madness. It would not be OP, broken, insane, etc... SZ doesnt use the clone as a primary weapon in this game. His strings are all full combo punished, special cancels have gaps, etc.. He is a trapping character with MB DB1 being his primary weapon. Now you think he would do what exactly without it??

See, you guys dont get it. You think that people like me just find the strat I want to work and ask for it to work. This was the last thing i thought, not the first. I literally looked for option after option, strat after strat all in failure. Then I realized "what if the clone is not is primary option? maybe I am looking at the wrong tool" and this strat was born.

He has no 50/50, command throw is unusable.. all that is fine and well. However, take this away and he doesnt have any sort of gameplan.
Well this wasn't exactly directed towards you Tom, however it seemed like it.
In my eyes, maybe his too, there's been a lot of catering due to the catering from NRS.
Can't say there hasn't been a bunch of "this ain't working make it work"
Or
"This seems too strong, donsomething NrS"
Type posts
 
It's fine Tom... They intended to Him to be Dan of this game. and just like in MK9.... a low tier character... They even trolled the hell out of Sub Zero mains with the function-kneeing properly string. and just like the string. The character is a joke. Sad... but It's reality.
What's your argument for MKX Sub on release?
 

Tigerbang

Legendary doodbro
My guess is that he wants he wants to set-up the clone in the corner from a plus on block move that pushes extremely far on hit or block then get another mix-up if blocked without spending meter then repeat (which it would also appear there is apparently safe guards to avoid this) how has no one thought of this by now?
 
Last edited:

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
This post is a little off topic.

I don't like how there is differing block distance occurs in NRS games based on character hurtboxes and things like crouch blocking.

But at the same time, did NRS truly want Sub's MBDB1 to have such varying frames on block like so many other moves have?

MKX had moves that were similar, and I know my character Brainiac's Cybernetic Charge is safe when done at range as opposed to its listed -13. It's really interesting to me from a game design perspective. How much is this intentional, as in they intend for it or knowingly design around it? Is this a thing that just naturally happens with this sort of thing in games? Do other games have these quirks? Is it just part of the engine or whatnot NRS uses? I don't have a ton of experience in non NRS fighting games, but I know you got your other fighters that use 3D hitboxes that have similar hit/hurtbox "issues" but about the frames, is that something in other games? Like Bo Rai Cho's meaty farts being super plus when they hit on a late active frame, is that a common mechanic in a lot of fighters? there's a lot interesting concepts that go into designing these games and it's fascinating to me.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
This post is a little off topic.

I don't like how there is differing block distance occurs in NRS games based on character hurtboxes and things like crouch blocking.

But at the same time, did NRS truly want Sub's MBDB1 to have such varying frames on block like so many other moves have?

MKX had moves that were similar, and I know my character Brainiac's Cybernetic Charge is safe when done at range as opposed to its listed -13. It's really interesting to me from a game design perspective. How much is this intentional, as in they intend for it or knowingly design around it? Is this a thing that just naturally happens with this sort of thing in games? Do other games have these quirks? Is it just part of the engine or whatnot NRS uses? I don't have a ton of experience in non NRS fighting games, but I know you got your other fighters that use 3D hitboxes that have similar hit/hurtbox "issues" but about the frames, is that something in other games? Like Bo Rai Cho's meaty farts being super plus when they hit on a late active frame, is that a common mechanic in a lot of fighters? there's a lot interesting concepts that go into designing these games and it's fascinating to me.
I don't know the answer but I will agree that this might be indeed he case.
 

haketh

Noob
MKX had moves that were similar, and I know my character Brainiac's Cybernetic Charge is safe when done at range as opposed to its listed -13. It's really interesting to me from a game design perspective. How much is this intentional, as in they intend for it or knowingly design around it? Is this a thing that just naturally happens with this sort of thing in games? Do other games have these quirks? Is it just part of the engine or whatnot NRS uses? I don't have a ton of experience in non NRS fighting games, but I know you got your other fighters that use 3D hitboxes that have similar hit/hurtbox "issues" but about the frames, is that something in other games? Like Bo Rai Cho's meaty farts being super plus when they hit on a late active frame, is that a common mechanic in a lot of fighters? there's a lot interesting concepts that go into designing these games and it's fascinating to me.
Yes, variable blockstun for a lot of moves is genereally taken into account & it is extremely common. Like for example in Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike every character has overhead done by MP+MK, normally these are all negative on hit by like -1 or -2 but if you hit them late they're massively plus on hit letting you link supers & the like.