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MAJOR Sub-Zero issue

I use this strategy in mid screen, but in the corner I am spamming f3. Klone allows it for free and your plus 8. If they don't get hit by the 3rd or 4th hammer I throw and repeat.
False..

After only one type of knockdown does a clone give you ONE F3 nearly guaranteed, not spam F3. Then after the ONE F3 you get the clone is gone and no more F3s or clone for several seconds. SZ will not excel in high level tournament matches like this.
 
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G11OST

Noob
False..

After only one type of knockdown does a clone give you ONE F3, not spam F3. Then after the ONE F3 you get the clone is gone and no more F3s or clone for several seconds. SZ will not excel in high level tournament matches like this.
Does clone throw or normal shatter give any plus frames and keep u in a better position?
 
False..

After only one type of knockdown does a clone give you ONE F3 nearly guaranteed, not spam F3. Then after the ONE F3 you get the clone is gone and no more F3s or clone for several seconds. SZ will not excel in high level tournament matches like this.
I agree but the reason I get to spam f3 is more than the klone. Klone gets me one f3, I'm plus 8 and they learn that shit fast. They respect it and I'll f3 until they mess up or if they are smart and neutral jump the f3(because it'll catch you if you jump forward) then I'll Klone, f3, grab and klones back. Meterless damage is nice but I think they designed that f3 and klone to play off each other very nicely.
 
I agree but the reason I get to spam f3 is more than the klone. Klone gets me one f3, I'm plus 8 and they learn that shit fast. They respect it and I'll f3 until they mess up or if they are smart and neutral jump the f3(because it'll catch you if you jump forward) then I'll Klone, f3, grab and klones back. Meterless damage is nice but I think they designed that f3 and klone to play off each other very nicely.
Clone ont recharge fast enough for a F3 clone loop. After 1 F3 and then a blocked string you still wont have a clone. Most likely you'd like to think you can end the string in MB DB1 for adv and to get the clone back to repeat the F3 stuff. Then you see the issue with MB DB1....
 
Clone ont recharge fast enough for a F3 clone loop. After 1 F3 and then a blocked string you still wont have a clone. Most likely you'd like to think you can end the string in MB DB1 for adv and to get the clone back to repeat the F3 stuff. Then you see the issue with MB DB1....
I think the reason f3 works so well is because of all the low threats sub zero possesses is bf3, 12, b23, even his d3 is straight, but I do see your point. Hopefully NRS fixes the blocking animations soon. Also I haven't heard your thoughts on our projectile, is there a video over that?
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
I noticed about MB DB1 that it has advantageous frames that give you time to hit the next combo. I use it a lot to pressure my opponents.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
nah, nthx. i think imma put him on the back burner for now.
There are a lot of times you need to change your actions depending on the range from your opponent, that's not something to put a character on the back burner. Sub-Zero isn't a hard-to-use character at all, that's not an issue.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
There are a lot of times you need to change your actions depending on the range from your opponent, that's not something to put a character on the back burner. Sub-Zero isn't a hard-to-use character at all, that's not an issue.
the fact that it kinda screws with his pressure tho....ehhh, im putting him aside until the patch, to see if anything gets tweaked, hopefully it does.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
Clone ont recharge fast enough for a F3 clone loop. After 1 F3 and then a blocked string you still wont have a clone. Most likely you'd like to think you can end the string in MB DB1 for adv and to get the clone back to repeat the F3 stuff. Then you see the issue with MB DB1....
Can I ask how you came up with the +15 math? did you use some sort of software to test or did you try to punish the follow up with moves until you found the magic number
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
makes perfect sense to me, subzero is having issues with consistancy in his game plan, therefore i'm going to put him on hold until its fixed.
That's not a consistency issue. A consistency issue means that the character can always be in the same position and in the same scenario yet the result will never be the same. But according to Tom, the supposed problem s dependent on which character you face and where you're on the stage, but the if you go to a specific scenario of conditions, the result will always be the same. If you fight against a "Superman type" character the result will always be the same, and if you fight against "Aquaman type" character the result will be different then of that of against a "Superman type" the result will always be same for that scenario. So it's not a consistency issue, it is a position/MU dependent issue, if anything. If you would face, for example, an "Aquaman type" character and you would always be in the corner, and yet the result will never be the same, that would've been a consistency issue, but that's not the case here.

On top of that, it's not like that this kill Sub-Zero in a high level or anything, having strategies that are MU dependent it's not anything new. Of course if NRS change Sub-Zero to that the strategy can work the same regardless the MU or the stage position, that will be cool, but MU dependent strategy isn't anything new. Does it make it harder? Yes, but destroying the character? No.

I would go on and try to fight against top level players and check things out or going to the lab and trying to find which scenario works.

This could also be nothing more then a bug. Remember the Scarecrow Wake-Up thing in the beginning? He was supposed to have an invincible Wake Up from the start but a bug ruined that Wake Up, and once it got fixed everything was fine for him. Maybe this is just a bug and that's it. And it's not like Sub-Zero is dead, even in this video Tom said that Sub-Zero can have some great mind games. Otherwise why his videos that show the full strategy from him would make it to the front page? Have you thought about that?

Again, check things out.
 
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Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!

ugh... and it gets worse lol.

Ill add this to the OP as well.
Ok Top I gotta ask you. Maybe NRS did this in purpose? I mean, obviously there are gonna be bad MU's for every character in the game, or at least MU's that are harder to deal with. Maybe this was their way to counter-balance Sub-Zero? Just saying.
 
Ok Top I gotta ask you. Maybe NRS did this in purpose? I mean, obviously there are gonna be bad MU's for every character in the game, or at least MU's that are harder to deal with. Maybe this was their way to counter-balance Sub-Zero? Just saying.
Counter balance a character that wouldnt even be in the top 5 regardless? Doubtful... counter balance would be things like no oh/low mix up or make clone trait and no recharge during combos. Thats what I'd call counter balance. These things were already done.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Now that I have seen this shit, I want to try something out for the corner.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Counter balance a character that wouldnt even be in the top 5 regardless? Doubtful... counter balance would be things like no oh/low mix up or make clone trait and no recharge during combos. Thats what I'd call counter balance. These things were already done.
Ok then I have one more question: Is this mean that the whole strategy that you showed in your vids is completely unusable? Because in this vid in the OP you said that Sub can still use some great mind games. I really got confused on that part.
 
Ok then I have one more question: Is this mean that the whole strategy that you showed in your vids is completely unusable? Because in this vid in the OP you said that Sub can still use some great mind games. I really got confused on that part.
In open space vs some character, the strat is very powerful.