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Harley Quinn General Discussion Thread

FOREVER EL1TE

FOREVER EL1TE

Noob
Thoughts? Bnbs? Anything post in here.
I still feel her oki is garbage but trait may be key here.
Her spacing still godlike
Her super is slower than before but the animation is cool
Her damage is steady low 400s
Very good jump normals.
Guns really good.
So far all i have
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Well, after looking at her a bit tonight, her frames got a lot worse. Every frame trap she had is less or gone. This might just be an overall shift, but I think it's kind of ridiculous that a string that was +21 and allowed a dash in d1 is now -2 with no pushback. Is a d1 check too much to ask?

Seems like they messed with the hit box on 112, making combos I've done for years super inconsistent. It's driving me crazy. The bullets at the end go up at like a 45 degree angle (You can actually hit people jumping about halfscreen with them), so things right in front of her or too far away miss.

Her d2 seems a bit better.

Not sure if she's got real hard to blockables, but with how plus B&L are, she's got Swarm Queen D'vorah style oki in the corner by ending in 112~4u. Just bait the wakeup and 50/50 when they block. Even gets delayed wakeups. Been trying to test this midscreen but for the fucking life of me I can't get ending in 112 consistent anymore, which is a patently ridiculous statement. I'll probably adjust, but this is extremely irritating in the moment.

She seems like she'll have great set play, but everywhere else is worse overall. Her pressure wasn't exactly great before and now it's worse. You've just got to really have your spacing on point and land those tantrums, especially now that they're much more unsafe.

I'm reserving judgement on how good I think she is for much later, but my initial impressions are a bit disappointing. I just don't think she deserved to lose so much of her plus frames. The damage nerfs are totally understandable, and I suppose tantrum being consistently punishable by everyone is necessary, but they took muh frame traps.
 
Vslayer

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
I played with her quite a bit this morning and you're right she has no pressure except when you shove your opponent in the corner, kind of reminds me of Cassie, except Cassie was more in-your-face rushdown and Harley as none of that. She has a few good low strings that can combo into tantrum but as you said it's all unsafe. I've been doing variations of 1,2,3 + 1,1,2. You can chain 1,1,2 twice in the corner which is realy good after the tantrum cartwheel or sending in bud or lou. Does a good chunk of damage.
 
Awkward Sloth

Awkward Sloth

Lamest Harley, still better sloth than Jer
MB cupcakes no longer auto corrects on teleports that appear behind her. Meaning you prolly shouldn't use them in against teleporters unless on knockdown. :/

The frame data on cupcakes is wrong. Both are still plus and mb still jails into gunshot when blocked.
 
WayoftheFist

WayoftheFist

Cold day in hell...
Played against a friend for about 3 hours with her last night. B2 seems to have better range now. I noticed I was punishing anything he whiffed much more consistently than before. Jump normals are still amazing. D2 seems better I was actually beating jump ins with it. Guns and cupcake are good. We still have solid meterless damage in a game where a lot of characters have to burn meter for it. I think we're in a better spot than injustice 1, just a different spot. I believe we've got some real dirt with B+L somewhere too.
 
Eldagrin

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
WayoftheFist said:
Played against a friend for about 3 hours with her last night. B2 seems to have better range now. I noticed I was punishing anything he whiffed much more consistently than before. Jump normals are still amazing. D2 seems better I was actually beating jump ins with it. Guns and cupcake are good. We still have solid meterless damage in a game where a lot of characters have to burn meter for it. I think we're in a better spot than injustice 1, just a different spot. I believe we've got some real dirt with B+L somewhere too.
Click to expand...
I agree, her B2 range feels bigger and her d2 is actually usable. It sucks that she lost SS and a lot of her pressure, but the legacies who gave her trouble also got toned down pretty considerably.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Couple notes from the lab. 112 is pretty much the only viable ender to get B&L out with, being a hard knockdown that you can cancel. However, the amount of gravity on the combo seriously effects how much advantage you get from 112. I'm not sure what the fastest wakeup in the game is, but I've been testing against Firestorm's 8f Fusion Charge, and it can actually punish Harley for using B&L if the combo is too long. For example, b22~tantrum~1, ji2, f13, 112~4u has too much gravity scaling and she gets punished. Whereas b22~db3~1, 112~4u hits meaty and allows Harley to block.

The different versions of the hyena strikes have different timings. The overhead version hits slightly faster, but I think we might be able to use the mid one to stuff otherwise safe wakeups, specifically because it's slower.

Instant j2 hits crouching opponents but is mid on the way up. How you gonna do me like that, NRS? Did someone wish for this on a Monkey's Paw? Damn it, be more specific with those, lol.

So far the best midscreen combo I've found off f23 is f23~db1, db3~roll. Decent enough damage and allows for her crossup gimmicks.
 
Emperor Eevee

Emperor Eevee

Learn to take a joke pal!
I'll give my thoughts sometime later today. I don't own a PS4 right now to do losing my job and having to sell it, but I have a friend coming over in an hour so i can get my opportunity to mess around and stuff.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Not quite a hard to blockable, but midscreen you can do something like db3~1, j3, 11~4u then tantrum. Gets you an overhead low, the setup is however tech rollable.

In the corner, using either [starter] db3~1, 112~4 or f23, 112~4 gives you an absolutely guaranteed hyena. Just bait the wakeup, watch for a hit to convert off of, and if they block, b2/f3/throw/whatever the hell you want. Delays are caught by using 4 instead of 4u, but you lose the threat of the overhead.

Also, as I'm sure anyone who has played against one of the real zoners in the game has noticed, Harley still has the same old problem of being way outzoned and being unable to counter zone due to her slow projectiles. Far as I can tell, she literally can't shoot back against Deadshot, with his 11f startup and -9 on block wrist cannons. Her guns are just...slower than that. Options I've found against his zoning so far are just the classic duck and walk, mb dash, and mb advancing f3 (which gets blown up by like half of his projectiles). Gonna have to win this one honest.
 
FOREVER EL1TE

FOREVER EL1TE

Noob
I'll make a combo video tomorrow,
Also DS doesn't feel that bad. He just feels keeps you in check. You can sorta play around in the mid range with your guns to trick him doing the wrong thing. Remember Harley's gameplan is space, zone, and annoy
 
Eldagrin

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
Even though some DS and Fate players were giving me some trouble, Harley detinitely seems improved in this game, the hyenas seem to add a lot to her game once you can set them up.
 
Awkward Sloth

Awkward Sloth

Lamest Harley, still better sloth than Jer
FOREVER EL1TE said:
Harley ambiguous cross up setup, doesn't non crossup easily on females
Click to expand...
Okay going off this if instead of completing the full 3,3 string for the hard knock down you can cancel the second hit with trait overhead or mid and get a combo off it.

If they tech roll they go to far back to punish you can a hyena can check them of catch the roll.

I'm testing it against wake ups right now. I think Atroc has the fastest fully invincible wake up with his charge which is 7 frames. This is safe to do against that. Tech roll or no tech roll.

And if they try delay wake up for long they can avoid the hyena but have to eat an imbiguous jump in 2 I think. If they short delay they still might have to eat a jump 2 or jump 3.
 
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