What's new

General/Other - Bartitsu XL Bartitsu General Discussion Thread

thlityoursloat

kick kick
His restand are you taking about Kane snag or something like that? Where he pulls you into him with his cane? I've found no use midscreen but you say it's useful in the corner? Can you elaborate please?
The OTG restand I meant, it's +16 so it jails into anything except for B2, F3 or B3. Midscreen, it'll knock them away so it's not as useful.
 

myri

Time Warrior
Was messing around with bartitsu today trying to find stuff and came up with some different mixups for his corner game in this variation to try and combat the fact that you can react to the meterless vortex he has in the corner. Nothing in this video is concrete, it's mostly me just spouting ideas, discussion is welcome and appreciated.

Also please excuse my horrible execution.

 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Was messing around with bartitsu today trying to find stuff and came up with some different mixups for his corner game in this variation to try and combat the fact that you can react to the meterless vortex he has in the corner. Nothing in this video is concrete, it's mostly me just spouting ideas, discussion is welcome and appreciated.

Also please excuse my horrible execution.

Some interesting thoughts. I noticed you said his D4 on hit allows for a jailed low or overhead but keep in mind it's just the low that +23 guarantees you and even then it's frame perfect. But more on the topic of the video a lot of the mixups options you showed in the video have kinda already been looked into of course since it's the meat and bones of Bartitsu but it's good to see people looking into stuff and thinking about how it could be used. It's always good to revise our options there to make sure we're optimizing mixup potential and offence in general so the video is always helpful though, and your idea of expanding the meta behind the vortex from F34 and B322 to including other mixup combo extenders like F3~low cane is definitely right and something Bos should be doing to keep opponents on their feet. Right now with people, even after 4 months, having not labbed Bo much or played many if any Bos we can get away with a lot of stuff even if it's reactable or gimmicky simply because they don't know very much about him. Once Bo gets them to the corner his already strong corner game becomes stronger simply because of a lack of knowlege/experience :D

I personally don't think his corner game is the problem, it's the getting them there. Once they're in the corner it's pretty tough to get out (unless they block once lol). I think his problems revolve more around his gaps, lack of safety and general lack of speed. It can be really easy to make him a little OTT though so I think NRS should look at doing something like this:

  • Remove a LOT of the gaps in Bo's moveset - there are more than a few moves that need more cancel advantage because we are going to get armour option selected to death once the meta evolves and people figure Bo out. Seriously, how many other characters in this game have THAT many gaps? The one in B14 forces us to hit confirm solely from B1 which can be a little difficult sometimes so that's not necessarily the most detrimental gap but the ones in 341 are just terrible in all regards ESPECIALLY when 34 and 341 are already unsafe. I know he's got mixups but goddamn some of the gaps in his offence are just flat out unnecessary.
  • Give us SOMETHING safe - how they go about this best imo is making DF2 faster. It's frankly ridiculous that the only three things that jail into DF2 (AND the ex version which is just as slow but armoured) are F3, 3 and F11. You can't make ANYTHING ELSE completely safe because there's an armourable/backdashable gap -_____-
  • A little more SPEED - One of the things holding Bo back the most is his general mobility. His walkspeed, runspeed and dashes are probably the worst in the game, his only decent forms of crossing parts of the screen quickly come from monkey flips (LOL at that), BF4 (which tbh is better used for armour breaking on wakeup but even then its whiff recovery lasts FOREVER) and F3 cancels (which are ok since they don't cost stamina but don't give you that instant recovery you'd hope for and open you up to getting hit so you're usually just better walking).
  • His normals as well (in Bartitsu mostly) get worse in this variation. Changing a REALLY important 8 frame mid into an 11 frame high for example...*sigh* There are matchups where characters with usually seemingly average mobility/zoning tools or characters with just a more solid neutral in terms of fast ranged mids look even better simply because Bo can't keep up with them :(
Ok shit this turned out to be a longer post than I thought lol.
 

myri

Time Warrior
Some interesting thoughts. I noticed you said his D4 on hit allows for a jailed low or overhead but keep in mind it's just the low that +23 guarantees you and even then it's frame perfect. But more on the topic of the video a lot of the mixups options you showed in the video have kinda already been looked into of course since it's the meat and bones of Bartitsu but it's good to see people looking into stuff and thinking about how it could be used. It's always good to revise our options there to make sure we're optimizing mixup potential and offence in general so the video is always helpful though, and your idea of expanding the meta behind the vortex from F34 and B322 to including other mixup combo extenders like F3~low cane is definitely right and something Bos should be doing to keep opponents on their feet. Right now with people, even after 4 months, having not labbed Bo much or played many if any Bos we can get away with a lot of stuff even if it's reactable or gimmicky simply because they don't know very much about him. Once Bo gets them to the corner his already strong corner game becomes stronger simply because of a lack of knowlege/experience :D

I personally don't think his corner game is the problem, it's the getting them there. Once they're in the corner it's pretty tough to get out (unless they block once lol). I think his problems revolve more around his gaps, lack of safety and general lack of speed. It can be really easy to make him a little OTT though so I think NRS should look at doing something like this:

  • Remove a LOT of the gaps in Bo's moveset - there are more than a few moves that need more cancel advantage because we are going to get armour option selected to death once the meta evolves and people figure Bo out. Seriously, how many other characters in this game have THAT many gaps? The one in B14 forces us to hit confirm solely from B1 which can be a little difficult sometimes so that's not necessarily the most detrimental gap but the ones in 341 are just terrible in all regards ESPECIALLY when 34 and 341 are already unsafe. I know he's got mixups but goddamn some of the gaps in his offence are just flat out unnecessary.
  • Give us SOMETHING safe - how they go about this best imo is making DF2 faster. It's frankly ridiculous that the only three things that jail into DF2 (AND the ex version which is just as slow but armoured) are F3, 3 and F11. You can't make ANYTHING ELSE completely safe because there's an armourable/backdashable gap -_____-
  • A little more SPEED - One of the things holding Bo back the most is his general mobility. His walkspeed, runspeed and dashes are probably the worst in the game, his only decent forms of crossing parts of the screen quickly come from monkey flips (LOL at that), BF4 (which tbh is better used for armour breaking on wakeup but even then its whiff recovery lasts FOREVER) and F3 cancels (which are ok since they don't cost stamina but don't give you that instant recovery you'd hope for and open you up to getting hit so you're usually just better walking).
  • His normals as well (in Bartitsu mostly) get worse in this variation. Changing a REALLY important 8 frame mid into an 11 frame high for example...*sigh* There are matchups where characters with usually seemingly average mobility/zoning tools or characters with just a more solid neutral in terms of fast ranged mids look even better simply because Bo can't keep up with them :(
Ok shit this turned out to be a longer post than I thought lol.
Yeah I agree. Bo could use a universal mid like f2 or something for sure. Hopefully we do get KP3 and another patch.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
There's no way that Bartitsu's d2 is 7 frames as listed. I don't even buy that it's less then 10. Maybe it's a hit box thing when people are up close.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
How do you all handle heavy zoners like Shinnok, Kenshi, and HQT?
 

Wigy

There it is...
If you can get in a little closer than full screen, D4 them out of all their BS.
No amount of d4 stops possessed's bs in that matchup

Played it on both sides, kenshi has to make some serious mistakes for you to get him into the corner
 

Legion DC

"Another weakling..."
What are the inputs to Make Bo Rai Cho fart after the Fat Iron Brutality? He stand there and fart saying "excuse me!"
 
What do you guys use to punish unsafe moves online? I don't know if I'm too slow or if my lag is too much, but moves with 10/11 frames don't seem to reliably punish a lot of stuff. I miss a 6/8 frame jab. Do you have any go-to punishers?
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
What do you guys use to punish unsafe moves online? I don't know if I'm too slow or if my lag is too much, but moves with 10/11 frames don't seem to reliably punish a lot of stuff. I miss a 6/8 frame jab. Do you have any go-to punishers?
It's probably Barts biggest weakness compared to the other variations, I think it really hurts him. No fast f1, no 10 frame belly bash, b1 is slower. Though there's some stuff he probably can punish that a lot of characters can't with d4, Barts f1 also has great range. Know if you can punish with S3. I suppose you have to get good with tight punishes with f1 and s1 but overall you might just have to accept getting pressure off of a lot of things and no combo.