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MKXL vs MK9 the best is relative

portent

Noob
So im not gonna dwell on the past, but just think of 3 or more tools kabal has and rate them.. either good, Too good or broken.

And if all your votes were rated 'too good', then overall as a character, it means he was broken.
This isn't semantics, mate, you don't understand the definition of broken. By your logic of "too good" being broken, the removal or banning of said "broken character" would make the next character on the list "too good" as well. By your logic, that character would be broken as well. So does this mean if Kabal was banned, then would Kung Lao, Cyrax or Kenshi be broken because their tools were now "too good" for the rest of the cast to compete with? Where would it end? It's a slippery slope, but a line in the sand has to be drawn. Broken is broken. Too good is NOT broken.
 

portent

Noob
@Israel to add on to what I am saying, understand this: In STHDR, an attempt was made to "fix" akuma. It failed miserably and he was still broken because his tools broke the rules of the game. "Too good" is still fixable without fundamentally changing the character. Kabal could be nerfed and fixed, Akuma cannot be.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I agree wholeheartedly. The way NRS balanced MKX was to make everyone "broken". This isn't Mahvel you know!
Well, who did they make broken in the balance patch?

Tanya = toned down
Quan Chi = toned down
Lao = further toned down
Tremor = toned down
etc.

They've actually been balancing towards the middle, rather than towards broke.
 
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portent

Noob
I agree wholeheartedly. The way NRS balanced MKX was to make everyone "broken". This isn't Mahvel you know!
Who did they make broken in the patch?[/QUOTE]

This isn't about the patch, I never mentioned the patch, so I'm not quite sure where this comes from.

I will say that we definitely use the word "broken" far too often in this community. I make no claim at even being good, let alone elite, but I understand the mind of an elite competitor and I can see things from that perspective. When scrubs and casuals complain about something being broken, most often they just aren't good enough to beat that particular thing. When a moderately competitive player complains that something is broken, it's usually because they've spent SOME time trying to beat it, but just aren't on the skill level of elite players. When elite players complain something is broken, you can pretty much bet that they have either tested every possible option before making that claim, or if they aren't making that claim, they're saving that tech to use in a tournament.

In a game like Marvel, the balance comes from just about everyone having the ability to do touch of death combos. This would be broken if it were only one or two characters, but because the rules of the game dictate that everyone can do it, then no rules are being broken when it happens, thus nobody is broken.

The true problem goes back to what @YOMI REO said
The problem was always characters like Kabal and Batgirl existing, not the lack of the AMOUNT of Kabals and Batgirl to combat Kabal and Batgirl.
The way NRS solved the problem was to make more of them, not remove the core mechanic that made one character too good. Maybe that isn't a problem for some people, but it is for some.
 

Israel

Noob
This isn't semantics, mate, you don't understand the definition of broken. By your logic of "too good" being broken, the removal or banning of said "broken character" would make the next character on the list "too good" as well. By your logic, that character would be broken as well. So does this mean if Kabal was banned, then would Kung Lao, Cyrax or Kenshi be broken because their tools were now "too good" for the rest of the cast to compete with? Where would it end? It's a slippery slope, but a line in the sand has to be drawn. Broken is broken. Too good is NOT broken.
You got it boss
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Vortex characters and 50/50s are not without precedent in MKX.

You've always had them in fighting games and there is always some element of guessing. Be in guessing when to poke out of stagger pressure, guessing whether or not the opponent will wake up, etc.

Also, invincible wake ups were fucking terrible and I have no idea why anyone would want that shit back. While I think MKX is a little intense on the knockdown meta, Injustice had the right balance.

Wake ups in Injustice had invincibility frames, but were not (usually) fully invincible so with practice and proper timing, you could stuff them. I prefer this as a middle ground.

As far as MK9 goes, there were a lot of balance issues and lopsided matches. Kitana v Kenshi, Scorpion v Cage, so on and so forth. I think, so far, the balance is a bit better.

I like both games for sure, but recognize them as completely different. Everyone else should, too.
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
Everyone coming out of the woodwork for this one, huh?

Was MK9 unbalanced overall? Yes. However, even with all of the bullshit I could go into a losing MU in MK9 and still feel confident provided I could outplay my opponent in the neutral game. Hell, I didn't even mind taking on Smoke as Sindel, or Cage as Mileena, it was all about who controlled that mid range.

Now? Well, if Smoke hits me once I'm launched into a never ending overhead/low shitshow until I happen to block right and my confidence level goes right out the window. Overall, I feel that it's much easier to get your bullshit started in MKX than it was in MK9. Some people may like that, others may not, it's all personal preference.

IMO though, MK9 really just needed one or two more patches and it would have been perfect.
 

G4S Claude VonStroke

@MK_ClaudeVS on twitter
Yo, can we talk about how MK9 doesn't have IN-GAME frame data?
To everyone making points about Kabal:

Kabal was not upplayed. He was the best character in the game, without a doubt. Sonya, Kenshi, Cage, etc completely shut down a majority of the cast, but Kabal was the only character in the game that was able to compete with every single character in the game in every aspect. Granted, Kabal, Cyrax, Kenshi, Sonya, Cage, etc were much closer to each other than just 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

With so many people practicing Kabal, the only great Kabals I have ever played in my 3 years in MK9 were detroitballn and REO. There were many good Kabals, but the differences were seen in gameplay, placements, and labwork. REO and detroit will forever be the only 2 great Kabal players, which provides arguments for Pig of the Hut and Kenshi. However, the main reason everyone considered Kabal broken, untierable, etc was because REO was on another planet in MK9, skill-wise. Detroit was as well, but REO was the main source for Kabal's notoriety.
Um did you forget about my Kabal?

I was the Lupe Fiasco of MK9.
 

G4S Claude VonStroke

@MK_ClaudeVS on twitter
After fighting it for so long I've just admitted to myself that the MK9 style of play was a once in a lifetime thing most likely and we just have accept whatever NRS decides to bring us next. That's it, it's gone end of story. I still play it occasionally against REO and Insuperable Cossner and others and have a great time but yeah it's over.


What I came to realize is that people who love MK9 like a slower paced but good walk speed style of movement where you can move in and out of sweep distance easily and react to jumps and movement easily. They like opening someone up with spacing or with pressure. These people either dislike MKX or don't like it as much because it does NOT play like that. Because of the run mechanic the footsie range is very different and the long normals and strings. People can get in your face much faster and it's harder to anti air because you have to be afraid of the run in.

On top of this, MKX is way more a 50/50 based game where they unreactable. This makes it much easier to open people up. On top of THAT there is no invincibility on wakeup so if you have no meter you will probably have to eat more 50/50's or insane pressure.

For these reasons MKX people LOVE it, they like being able to run in, open people up with 50/50's and continue. The MK9 people obviously don't like that style of playing. BTW Not EVERY character in MKX is like that, Kitana isn't for example but for the most part the game is like that.

So really it's just a matter of preference and NEITHER side is going to agree with the other one.

The MKX people can just talk about unbalance and glitches and the MK9 people won't care because they love the neutral game. And the MKX people won't care because they like the MKX way of moving.


No one will agree on anything basically lol
 
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KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
i don't get what the argument is lol.. what are you trying to say
who was punishing d3's? there no risk.. all you have to do is confirm it.

only person who d3s were risky for some people were was cage cuz he crushed a few peoples, like smoke. he had the best rushdown hands down
No risk? There's no reward! Being at +2-3, with no buffer window and most starters being 8-10 frames, I sincerely doubt that anyone could actually see a d3 hit and do a string in time to take advantage of any actual frame advantage. And being so negative on block if it were blocked, boldly doing d3 > string will get smacked down from characters like Johnny, Sonya, Jax, Kabal, etc. This was hands down the biggest flaw most of the top characters could exploit.
 

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
Hit/block confirming d3s is a huge part of the higher level MK9 meta.
this
No risk? There's no reward! Being at +2-3, with no buffer window and most starters being 8-10 frames, I sincerely doubt that anyone could actually see a d3 hit and do a string in time to take advantage of any actual frame advantage. And being so negative on block if it were blocked, boldly doing d3 > string will get smacked down from characters like Johnny, Sonya, Jax, Kabal, etc. This was hands down the biggest flaw most of the top characters could exploit.
 

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
I doubt there will ever be anything like MK9 again, simply because NRS loathes dash canceling and it will never return.

But I don't think its out of the realm of possibilities that they will make another game that is neutral focused.
Well I hope anyway, after back to back Injustice and MKX, I'm 50/50 out.
 

Northern Slasher

Heads or Tails X
+1 or +2 is not practically neutral in MK9. That situation can be brutal in MK9. There's no invincible backdash, weaker armor, punishable, less rewarding pokes. There's a lot of characters who get fucked up in those scenarios.

Let's also stop pretending you can just react to what Kabal is doing and counter accordingly. It's ridiculously fast. You can pick like, one thing to look out for, mostly you're just guessing.

This new retcon about the nice old days of Kabal with his my turn, your turn, he's just +1 pressure is ridiculous. Get out of here.

And don't come back telling me I don't understand how to play the game plz
Well at least in MK9 we only had one character like that, and it required great execution. Now we have 100.