MKXL vs MK9 the best is relative

[Prinz]

Both games are great, even though they are pretty different. But some things are swaped. For example, the invincibility on wake-up in MK9 was unnecessary considering you had unbreakable armor, while in MKX you have breakable armor, armor breaking strings, 50/50's, but you should risk on wake-up and use one meter to deal damage.

While having big ammount of 50/50, MKX has great universal deffensive tools, but they are implememnted wrong: block breaker (but it costs too much. You're better off using 1 bar for an armored launcher, with position and frame advantage, than using 2 bars and losing your stamina for creating a relatively neutral situation), backdash (it should be fully invincible considering the presence of fast advancing strings and it recovers too slow, so you get punished anyway most the times), the timer (this one was addressed in the last patch which is great, but is not enough).

I believe if NRS will fix those two deffensive otions the game will become way better. As for MK9, it was agreat ride, but at the level the players are right now, there's really only one way - the high tier. But considering the little ammount of them, the game becomes repetitive.

 

[Airvidal]

Alerts

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

The point that I'm getting at, is a lot of competitive players that want to devote most of their free time into a fighting game would rather be rewarded off pure reads and skill and do not like dealing with bullshit or ridiculous characters because it tampers with the hard work you put into a game. It doesn't matter how many hours you put into defending against a non react-able 50/50, the end result will always be comparable to a mere coin flip. It also doesn't matter how much time you put in against +10 launching or loop-able block pressure, the end result will always be you having to be stuck there and dealing with it.

On this part I kinda call BS. REO I like you and I love your philosophy behind these games...

But dude there are plenty games out here that don't have this crazy 50/50 loopable block pressure shit.

If you're playing it and devoting your time to it, it has to be because you like it. If you don't like it, don't play it dude.

 

[FROST_]

Mkx is garbage ... UMK9 is what we need

 

[Matador Fiend]

I like mkx much better. I suppose i faced one too many kenshi and kabals in mk9 to be able to remember it as fondly

 

[IROC]

Mk9 on the rollback netcode = jizzing pants purfusely and burrying the mkxl disc for life.

 

[killa_solid]

MKX has much closer teirs between characters compared to MK9 but lbsh the balance is superficial since it comes from almost every character having a 50/50 to throw out. Its hard to compare Mk9 and Mkx..they both have their merits. In mk9 wins were more satisfying though, at least for me.

 

[JDM]

Curious as to what's your reasoning on why Kabal was "really really broken" because I hear so many people say this and they weren't even in the competitive MK9 scene. Was it because his dash cancels were +1 and +2 on his viable normals? Or was it because his instant air zoning was a slower version than Cyborg from Injustice and in a game with better movement than Injustice?

Characters in MKX are Kabal on crack. There are characters who's run cancels are +11 / +12 etc. from normals that go half screen. Anything like that in MK9 would have been ludicrous. It doesn't matter if it cost a bit of stamina or one bar of meter, being anything close to +10 in a fighting game like MKX off some of your characters best footsie strings or 50/50 mix-ups is straight up ridiculous.

There are mainly two reasons Kabal was considered "broken".

1.) He didn't have any losing match-ups. Just 5-5s or advantage MUs
2.) He had armor you could cancel (to avoid it from being blocked and punished)

MKX has number 2.) in it with Tremor and his instant cancellable armor. And it may have 1.) as time goes on since not every character in MKX is fleshed out. I'm sure there will be that one character that will end up not losing to the cast and just having even or advantage match-ups just like it happened with both MK9 and Injustice.

I can't really defend Cyrax since having 90%+ combos off any touch was indeed pretty broken and it's a bit different situation from Kabal since Kabal didn't have specifically one overpowering or busted tool like that. Kabal just had every tool you could want in a character. Having a character with good offense, good armor, good zoning, and no losing match-ups is a bad recipe for any fighting game character.

He could do it all, he could pressure intensely and zone really well. Built crazy amounts of meter and had restand pressure and a block infinite. How was he not broken? He was hard to use but that doesn't mean he wasn't broken.

 

[Linkuei82]

He could do it all, he could pressure intensely and zone really well. Built crazy amounts of meter and had restand pressure and a block infinite. How was he not broken? He was hard to use but that doesn't mean he wasn't broken.

He could do it all was what Reo was saying he has so many tools.
He did build tons of meter but so did other character and meter building was much easier in MK9 compare to MKX
2NDC was a high and was not a true block infinite
His pressure was interruptible. Everything besides 2NDC was no more than plus 2 so you could poke out unless he commite to dash, buzzsaw, overhead, or he poke with D3.

 

[Snoop88]

yeah I guess SonicFox is not human. As he is winning most of the majors he must be somekind of a freakin guessing machine. Or the game code itself!

 

[JDM]

He could do it all was what Reo was saying he has so many tools.
He did build tons of meter but so did other character and meter building was much easier in MK9 compare to MKX
2NDC was a high and was not a true block infinite
His pressure was interruptible. Everything besides 2NDC was no more than plus 2 so you could poke out unless he commite to dash, buzzsaw, overhead, or he poke with D3.

2NDC wasn't a legit block infinite? Really? I know it was a high but it jailed into itself I thought. At least in the corner?


And it doesn't matter if there were ways to get out of his pressure, every time he touched you you had to have multiple guesses, Look at the other characters in the game, none of them had pressure and mixups like him. Not to mention combined with his zoning he was just way too good compared to the rest of the cast except Cyrax. And Cyrax's neutral game wasn't nearly as complete, his setups and damage were just broken as hell.

Also I don't think MMH (Top tier def but not " broken" ) was that good either. We had one really good MMH which was Jupiter while almost everyone had a pocket kabal at top level MK9. Character was just toooooo much

 

[FROST_]

2NDC wasn't a legit block infinite? Really? I know it was a high but it jailed into itself I thought. At least in the corner?


And it doesn't matter if there were ways to get out of his pressure, every time he touched you you had to have multiple guesses, Look at the other characters in the game, none of them had pressure and mixups like him. Not to mention combined with his zoning he was just way too good compared to the rest of the cast except Cyrax. And Cyrax's neutral game wasn't nearly as complete, his setups and damage were just broken as hell.

Also I don't think MMH (Top tier def but not " broken" ) was that good either. We had one really good MMH which was Jupiter while almost everyone had a pocket kabal at top level MK9. Character was just toooooo much

Your missing the point... If its +1-2 its practically neutral... S2NDC was a high with alot recovery so whiff punish it... Kenshi had better zoning, lui kit, noob, had equal zoning... Cyrax, kitana, smoke, reptile, lao etc had better damage... Baraka, sonya, cyrax, had restand that were +... Johnny was a walking frame trap who built meter better, along with lui, sonya, jax, rain, skarlet... So yea stop calling him broke and learn the game xD... P.S. I mained 1) Noob 2) Smoke 3) Kabal ... Pce

 

[JDM]

Lmao what did I just read

 

[RiBBz22]

finally lmfao... so many casual retards that probably didn't even play MK9 talk about Kabal as if they even have played a "real Kabal". Not even that, but understand the mu or the game / meta as a whole. Most of his starters were 13 frame normals that were +1-2 if executed perfectly which means most of the cast could use there fastest starter standing to punish his followup if you had a read on it not being a standing 2.

Quit being followers on the hype train.. OMG KABAL OMG

fucking annoying tbh.. Like REO said, Kabal was just TOO GOOD. As in he had a well rounded tool set.

2 words.....Sonya breh

 

[16 Bit]

+1 or +2 is not practically neutral in MK9. That situation can be brutal in MK9. There's no invincible backdash, weaker armor, punishable, less rewarding pokes. There's a lot of characters who get fucked up in those scenarios.

Let's also stop pretending you can just react to what Kabal is doing and counter accordingly. It's ridiculously fast. You can pick like, one thing to look out for, mostly you're just guessing.

This new retcon about the nice old days of Kabal with his my turn, your turn, he's just +1 pressure is ridiculous. Get out of here.

And don't come back telling me I don't understand how to play the game plz

 

[RiBBz22]

+1 or +2 is not practically neutral in MK9. That situation can be brutal in MK9. There's no invincible backdash, weaker armor, punishable, less rewarding pokes. There's a lot of characters who get fucked up in those scenarios.

Let's also stop pretending you can just react to what Kabal is doing and counter accordingly. It's ridiculously fast. You can pick like, one thing to look out for, mostly you're just guessing.

This new retcon about the nice old days of Kabal with his my turn, your turn, he's just +1 pressure is ridiculous. Get out of here.

And don't come back telling me I don't understand how to play the game plz

Yeah, even player 1 advantage was enough to make a huge ass difference once the game matured. Neutral most of the time was not practically even neutral in MK9...At the highest levels you really had to know how P1 Adv factored into the meta game and specific match-ups.

 

[OG Mannimal]

This thread is irrelevant because Injustice: Gods Among Us is the best

 

[RM AtK!]

+1 or +2 is not practically neutral in MK9. That situation can be brutal in MK9. There's no invincible backdash, weaker armor, punishable, less rewarding pokes. There's a lot of characters who get fucked up in those scenarios.

Let's also stop pretending you can just react to what Kabal is doing and counter accordingly. It's ridiculously fast. You can pick like, one thing to look out for, mostly you're just guessing.

This new retcon about the nice old days of Kabal with his my turn, your turn, he's just +1 pressure is ridiculous. Get out of here.

And don't come back telling me I don't understand how to play the game plz

i don't get what the argument is lol.. what are you trying to say
who was punishing d3's? there no risk.. all you have to do is confirm it.

only person who d3s were risky for some people were was cage cuz he crushed a few peoples, like smoke. he had the best rushdown hands down

 

[Eddy Wang]

2ndc was +9/8 on block standing 2 was 8f startup, you had 1/2 frame to link another perfectly canceled 2ndc, it was incredibly difficult to do which is why if you miss timed the jail for a frame, the opponent could just duck and punish you.

The bigger gripe with Kabal most of the time it wasn't really his NDC pressure, it was the combination of tools he had at his disposal, cancelable armor, a 6f instant air projectile that can be erased by canceling into itself, making possible to have two large hitbox projectiles on screen on a certain period of time, this made incredible hard to fight against Kabal.

Most of the cast couldn't keep up with his projectile game, and the ones who could, couldn't manage his NDC pressure.


Also people are forgetting that MK9 staying grounded could be really bad, there were some moves that could practically pick up people off the ground without using a bar. Everyone that used breaker airbone could restart his offense with d3 into pressure, some character could even use other moves to OTG.

 

[RM AtK!]

2ndc was +9/8 on block standing 2 was 8f startup, you had 1/2 frame to link another perfectly canceled 2ndc, it was incredibly difficult to do which is why if you miss timed the jail for a frame, the opponent could just duck and punish you.

The bigger gripe with Kabal most of the time it wasn't really his NDC pressure, it was the combination of tools he had at his disposal, cancelable armor, a 6f instant air projectile that can be erased by canceling into itself, making possible to have two large hitbox projectiles on screen on a certain period of time, this made incredible hard to fight against Kabal.

Most of the cast couldn't keep up with his projectile game, and the ones who could, couldn't manage his NDC pressure.


Also people are forgetting that MK9 staying grounded could be really bad, there were some moves that could practically pick up people off the ground without using a bar. Everyone that used breaker airbone could restart his offense with d3 into pressure, some character could even use other moves to OTG.

kabal s2 was 9 frames and it was 2 (just frames aka 1 frames)
You had to cancel on the first frame and input on the exact next frame over and over and that was if they stood up which noone did..
also when u did the breaker thing you could lay there and if they picked you up with d3 (on block) you could immediately punish them for trying to folllow up.

 

[The Death]

Armageddon was the most balanced..

 

[xKhaoTik]

Armageddon was the most balanced..

Lol this is a joke right?

 

[TakeAChance]

I wasn't a top player in any game by any means.

From my perspective, I enjoyed the neutral of MK9 more, but I enjoy the diversity of MKX a billion times more than MK9.

 

[xKhaoTik]

"MK9 was the NRS game where you had to outplay somebody the most because there wasn't alot of armor or 50/50s. One patch away from being gdlk imo"

-DJT

Pretty much my same exact thoughts

 

[portent]

The point that I'm getting at, is a lot of competitive players that want to devote most of their free time into a fighting game would rather be rewarded off pure reads and skill and do not like dealing with bullshit or ridiculous characters because it tampers with the hard work you put into a game. It doesn't matter how many hours you put into defending against a non react-able 50/50, the end result will always be comparable to a mere coin flip. It also doesn't matter how much time you put in against +10 launching or loop-able block pressure, the end result will always be you having to be stuck there and dealing with it.

This statement nails my sentiment exactly. I enjoy all 3 games, but there is a less satisfying feeling to winning in Injustice and MKX. Regardless of frames, +/-, advantage on block and whatnot, MK9 rewarded hard work. Kabal had all the tools you could want, but to master those tools took immense amounts of practice and dedication. What about Kenshi? How many players, outside @Pig Of The Hut can we mention who REALLY played Kenshi at a level that people considered him a problem? What's the common demoninator between Pig and @YOMI REO ? Dedication. They put in the time and the work and were rewarded for it. Injustice and MKX, in very lay terms, reward 50/50 guessing and setplay. You can practice all you want to master your characters and their toolset, but you're still gonna get blown up for guessing wrong on a coinflip, and the more characters that exist that have loopable pressure into 50/50 coinflips, the less skill it takes to win. It simply comes down to keeping the pressure on and being lucky that your opponent guesses wrong.

The game was balanced in the wrong direction, IMO. I really hope Injustice 2 or MK11 becomes a very rewarding and satisfying game to play at a high level and something like we've never played before.

I agree wholeheartedly. The way NRS balanced MKX was to make everyone "broken". This isn't Mahvel you know!