MKXL vs MK9 the best is relative

[Groove Heaven]

I think they're both good games and yes I think they both win in certain aspects.

MKX has better balance and more depth, there are more than like 7 or 8 viable characters, and it is genuinely fun and fluid to play.

MK9 functioned more like a traditional fighting game to me. AAing was more straightforward, the neutral and fight for space was more intense, and there was less cheese on the raw mechanic level (what I mean by this is that all the cheese existed in each character's playstyle, not in the neutral and oki itself). The strong focus on rushdown and 50/50s kind of kills MKX for me.

Basically, my gut reaction is that I loved MK9 and like MKX on a causal level. I always wanted to be better at MK9 much like how I felt about SF4 (too bad I started playing both right as they started to die lol). I thought about how I could improve and MUs and stuff when I wasn't playing. I wanted to play all the time. I had so much fun every time I did.

MKX...I kinda just pop in when I'm bored and I wanna play online. I don't lab or grind MUs. I go to like 1 major a year. I don't have the drive I had when I started MK9.

Great game but not as engaging on a fundamental level...that's just my 2 cents.

 

[REO]

Cyrax and Kabal who were really really broken but outside of them MK9 was way fairer (even including them MK9 was more fair)

Curious as to what's your reasoning on why Kabal was "really really broken" because I hear so many people say this and they weren't even in the competitive MK9 scene. Was it because his dash cancels were +1 and +2 on his viable normals? Or was it because his instant air zoning was a slower version than Cyborg from Injustice and in a game with better movement than Injustice?

Characters in MKX are Kabal on crack. There are characters who's run cancels are +11 / +12 etc. from normals that go half screen. Anything like that in MK9 would have been ludicrous. It doesn't matter if it cost a bit of stamina or one bar of meter, being anything close to +10 in a fighting game like MKX off some of your characters best footsie strings or 50/50 mix-ups is straight up ridiculous.

There are mainly two reasons Kabal was considered "broken".

1.) He didn't have any losing match-ups. Just 5-5s or advantage MUs
2.) He had armor you could cancel (to avoid it from being blocked and punished)

MKX has number 2.) in it with Tremor and his instant cancellable armor. And it may have 1.) as time goes on since not every character in MKX is fleshed out. I'm sure there will be that one character that will end up not losing to the cast and just having even or advantage match-ups just like it happened with both MK9 and Injustice.

I can't really defend Cyrax since having 90%+ combos off any touch was indeed pretty broken and it's a bit different situation from Kabal since Kabal didn't have specifically one overpowering or busted tool like that. Kabal just had every tool you could want in a character. Having a character with good offense, good armor, good zoning, and no losing match-ups is a bad recipe for any fighting game character.

 

[KIllaByte]

Curious as to what's your reasoning on why Kabal was "really really broken" because I hear so many people say this and they weren't even in the competitive MK9 scene. Was it because his dash cancels were +1 and +2 on his viable normals? Or was it because his instant air zoning was a slower version than Cyborg from Injustice and in a game with better movement than Injustice?

Characters in MKX are Kabal on crack. There are characters who's run cancels are +11 / +12 etc. from normals that go half screen. Anything like that in MK9 would have been ludicrous. It doesn't matter if it cost a bit of stamina or one bar of meter, being anything close to +10 in a fighting game like MKX off some of your characters best footsie strings or 50/50 mix-ups is straight up ridiculous.

There are mainly two reasons Kabal was considered "broken".

1.) He didn't have any losing match-ups. Just 5-5s or advantage MUs
2.) He had armor you could cancel (to avoid it from being blocked and punished)

MKX has number 2.) in it with Tremor and his instant cancellable armor. And it may have 1.) as time goes on since not every character in MKX is fleshed out. I'm sure there will be that one character that will end up not losing to the cast and just having even or advantage match-ups just like it happened with both MK9 and Injustice.

I can't really defend Cyrax since having 90%+ combos off any touch was indeed pretty broken and it's a bit different situation from Kabal since Kabal didn't have specifically one overpowering or busted tool like that. Kabal just had every tool you could want in a character. Having a character with good offense, good armor, good zoning, and no losing match-ups is a bad recipe for any fighting game.

I've been thinking about making a post about kabal being upplayed for a long time. Nice to see you nail it here, Reo.
Nothing compared to Martian Manhunter in his game, or day one Superman.
I think the amount of people on here that pretend they played MK9 at a high level is high. MK9 is more likely the game which made most TYMers conscious of high level fighting games, and them watching your and other good Kabals win made them think Kabal was more broke than just the #1.

 

[RM AtK!]

Curious as to what's your reasoning on why Kabal was "really really broken" because I hear so many people say this and they weren't even in the competitive MK9 scene. Was it because his dash cancels were +1 and +2 on his viable normals? Or was it because his instant air zoning was a slower version than Cyborg from Injustice and in a game with better movement than Injustice?

Characters in MKX are Kabal on crack. There are characters who's run cancels are +11 / +12 etc. from normals that go half screen. Anything like that in MK9 would have been ludicrous. It doesn't matter if it cost a bit of stamina or one bar of meter, being anything close to +10 in a fighting game like MKX off some of your characters best footsie strings or 50/50 mix-ups is straight up ridiculous.

There are mainly two reasons Kabal was considered "broken".

1.) He didn't have any losing match-ups. Just 5-5s or advantage MUs
2.) He had armor you could cancel (to avoid it from being blocked and punished)

MKX has number 2.) in it with Tremor and his instant cancellable armor. And it may have 1.) as time goes on since not every character in MKX is fleshed out. I'm sure there will be that one character that will end up not losing to the cast and just having even or advantage match-ups just like it happened with both MK9 and Injustice.

I can't really defend Cyrax since having 90%+ combos off any touch was indeed pretty broken and it's a bit different situation from Kabal since Kabal didn't have specifically one overpowering or busted tool like that. Kabal just had every tool you could want in a character. Having a character with good offense, good armor, good zoning, and no losing match-ups is a bad recipe for any fighting game character.

finally lmfao... so many casual retards that probably didn't even play MK9 talk about Kabal as if they even have played a "real Kabal". Not even that, but understand the mu or the game / meta as a whole. Most of his starters were 13 frame normals that were +1-2 if executed perfectly which means most of the cast could use there fastest starter standing to punish his followup if you had a read on it not being a standing 2.

Quit being followers on the hype train.. OMG KABAL OMG

fucking annoying tbh.. Like REO said, Kabal was just TOO GOOD. As in he had a well rounded tool set.

 

[Error404]

in a sense it was. Comparatively. MKX Kung Lao is way better than MK9's Kung Lao when you put their tools up against one another.

MK9 has less 50/50s, and more footsies so you actually had to outplay your opponent way more than in this game. I'd say the main two outliers in MK9 were Cyrax and Kabal who were really really broken but outside of them MK9 was way fairer (even including them MK9 was more fair)

Less 50/50s don't equal honest games. Have you ever fought Cage in MK9 when he was on p1 side? He had no 50/50s yet his pressure was nigh endless. And that goes for a lot of characters. Also Kabal and Cyrax weren't the only broken characters. Smoke and Jax could also kill you in 1 combo. Kenshi was also ridiculous and beat most of the cast at least 7-3 . Honest my ass . That game was only honest when you were playing characters who were at least top 10.

 

[Map the Soul]

I think the amount of peopel on here that pretend they played MK9 at a high level is very high.

Not even that, but understand the mu or the game / meta as a whole.

u dudez mean urselfs????

no name bumz

 

[Jynks]

There are mainly two reasons Kabal was considered "broken".

1.) He didn't have any losing match-ups. Just 5-5s or advantage MUs
2.) He had armor you could cancel (to avoid it from being blocked and punished)

MKX has number 2.) in it with Tremor and his instant cancellable armor. And it may have 1.) as time goes on since not every character in MKX is fleshed out. I'm sure there will be that one character that will end up not losing to the cast and just having even or advantage match-ups just like it happened with both MK9 and Injustice

MKx is Kabal "on crack" might be true, but isn't it really about the relationship between him and the rest of the roster. In MKx everyone has these kinds of crazy stuff. Kabal in MK9 was just so much stronger than all the rest of the cast.

Like REO said, Kabal was just TOO GOOD. As in he had a well rounded tool set.

Isn't that what broken means?

 

[ScareKrow]

No one should be defending kabal, he was broken bruh.

 

[Skellington]

There are alot of people who agree with me on this next statement. NRS should have addressed the issues with MK9 (meter-drain glitch, etc.) re-polished it, and maybe thrown in some new characters. Was MK9 so bad of a game that NRS decided 50/50's were the way to go? Just make it all random and screw the neutral game all together?

 

[JJvercetti]

MKx is Kabal "on crack" might be true, but isn't it really about the relationship between him and the rest of the roster. In MKx everyone has these kinds of crazy stuff. Kabal in MK9 was just so much stronger than all the rest of the cast.



Isn't that what broken means?

No, that is what overpowered means.

 

[KingHippo]

Curious as to what's your reasoning on why Kabal was "really really broken" because I hear so many people say this and they weren't even in the competitive MK9 scene. Was it because his dash cancels were +1 and +2 on his viable normals? Or was it because his instant air zoning was a slower version than Cyborg from Injustice and in a game with better movement than Injustice?

I see this talking point repeated where you compare Kabal's tools to characters from Injustice and MKX, and I think it's misleading. Relative to MK9, heavily advantaged block pressure was even more of a threat because of how bad pokes were and what little they did to steal the advantage back compared to what was coming if you were blocked. I ate many of DetroitBallin's f4 punishes on my own down 1, and my down 3 didn't fare much better considering. Luckily I played Kenshi, who had very good launching armor but was one of the few characters in the game to have it. Without it, 2NDC, f32NDC and B12NDC were very good situations for Kabal to be in.

This all goes without mentioning his gas blasts, which you already mentioned could be done at a really low level in the air. You mention Cyborg, which would be a good point if he could also convert his landed hits into full combos from almost half screen and also zoom into range at a moment's notice if he wanted to stop. Cyborg also has a restand type hit but he wasn't able to end all of his combos with it and sustain pressure that was amongst the best in the game.

Do I think Kabal was broken? No, that term is and should be reserved for those that without a doubt shut the game down ala an Akuma from ST. You and I both know that, but we can't help community slang (Although we can probably blame the GGA guys for that slang ) Was he probably better than everyone below him, most by a significant margin? Most likely.

Engine quirks play a big role in determining strength, and Kabal took advantage of almost all of them in the best way possible (Forcing a meter drain glitch through long block pressure, immediately ceasing advantage after breakers using Nomad Dash, bad pokes). It's a very hard case to argue that he wasn't the absolute best character, and I think by comparing him to other games where the other characters were more well-equipped you don't tell the whole story.

 

[villainous monk]

Mk9 was great & innovative in almost every aspect. It's brought the entire series from the brink of forgotten memories of fighting games.

While streetfighter, king of fighters, tekken and soul Caliber was putting out games that out shines mkvsdc Mk9 came in and put not only its pillar in the soil but it's once again but a sturdy tomb apoun it.

I not going to list off the many many differences both pros and cons but I'll say MKXL has put a new and fast paced & exciting way to for us to play this game. All the while building it to be a interesting sophisticated knowledgeable fighting game.

Mortal kombat XL is constantly evolving. It's made casuals come to this game and become smarter players. And fantastic pros like the ones who's hopefully reading this far better teachers and role models to not only show off what this game could do since Mk9 but aslo build the community that were all in and apart of.

Its surpassed what Mortal kombat used to be while still in some respects staying true to the core history all the while creating new ways to go and DO so much more that technology allows. Mk9 had its place and will be the pillar MKXL stands on.

To me it's not which is better or what not but WILL the next one surpass our expectations.

And will nrs listen to us on what works well and what we still feel 50/50 about.

Get it. 50/50s

 

[Amplified$hotz]

i like MKX casually but I'd compete in mk9 if it ever got that 'one last patch '

 

[Amplified$hotz]

u dudez mean urselfs????

no name bumz

Lmao!!!!

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I miss MK9 dearly.

That being said...thinking in Heisenberg purity terms because LBSH, MK is crystal meth...MKX is definitely the superior product.

That also being said, a perfect world would one day see born in it an X-Year Anniversary edition re-release, complete with a patch 1.06 rebalancing, so that one day MK9 can be the hypest game in the room again. Neither MKX nor Injustice, full of delusional splendor and suffering though they were/are, can recreate the same atmosphere of oh motherfucker it is ON that MK9 did.

 

[Obs_SmSwag]

I see this talking point repeated where you compare Kabal's tools to characters from Injustice and MKX, and I think it's misleading. Relative to MK9, heavily advantaged block pressure was even more of a threat because of how bad pokes were and what little they did to steal the advantage back compared to what was coming if you were blocked. I ate many of DetroitBallin's f4 punishes on my own down 1, and my down 3 didn't fare much better considering. Luckily I played Kenshi, who had very good launching armor but was one of the few characters in the game to have it. Without it, 2NDC, f32NDC and B12NDC were very good situations for Kabal to be in.

2 NDC was good, but it was a high. F32 NDC was basically the end of Kabal's pressure, only way you're getting pressured after that is if you're waiting to block overhead/low specials. B12 NDC was bad, there was a gap between the 1 and 2. B1 NDC was good, but hard. Kabal's biggest advantages i.m.o is he can cancel everything into Armored launcher or low/overhead special. Gas blast were good, but worked more like sub's ice clone where they dictate pace.

I will say aside from balance, MK9 was a more competitive game than MKX in complete honesty. 50-50 into restand caters to casuals. MKX is a great game and fun to watch, but it's heavily catered to casuals

 

[Reeky Jones]

Only things I liked better in MK9 were the stages, music and characters. MKXL is pretty much better at everything else imo.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Curious as to what's your reasoning on why Kabal was "really really broken" because I hear so many people say this and they weren't even in the competitive MK9 scene. Was it because his dash cancels were +1 and +2 on his viable normals? Or was it because his instant air zoning was a slower version than Cyborg from Injustice and in a game with better movement than Injustice?

Characters in MKX are Kabal on crack. There are characters who's run cancels are +11 / +12 etc. from normals that go half screen. Anything like that in MK9 would have been ludicrous. It doesn't matter if it cost a bit of stamina or one bar of meter, being anything close to +10 in a fighting game like MKX off some of your characters best footsie strings or 50/50 mix-ups is straight up ridiculous.

There are mainly two reasons Kabal was considered "broken".

1.) He didn't have any losing match-ups. Just 5-5s or advantage MUs
2.) He had armor you could cancel (to avoid it from being blocked and punished)

MKX has number 2.) in it with Tremor and his instant cancellable armor. And it may have 1.) as time goes on since not every character in MKX is fleshed out. I'm sure there will be that one character that will end up not losing to the cast and just having even or advantage match-ups just like it happened with both MK9 and Injustice.

I can't really defend Cyrax since having 90%+ combos off any touch was indeed pretty broken and it's a bit different situation from Kabal since Kabal didn't have specifically one overpowering or busted tool like that. Kabal just had every tool you could want in a character. Having a character with good offense, good armor, good zoning, and no losing match-ups is a bad recipe for any fighting game character.

In the sense of him being good at ALL aspects of the game. As well as losing NO match ups.... Wouldn't that make him really really broken alone??

 

[Jynks]

In the sense of him being good at ALL aspects of the game. As well as losing NO match ups.... Wouldn't that make him really really broken alone??

that us exactly what I said but "apparently" it only means he is "overpowered" not "broken" roflmao

 

[KIllaByte]

u dudez mean urselfs????

no name bumz

Yeah, I never hit a high level in MK9, but it's what brought me into fighting games.
Does my point not still stand about Kabal being upplayed by people who didn't play the game? You gonna address the post?
My tournament placing for my sventy dollars, as posted on my Youtube channel with hundreds of thousands of views for fighting game content. Feel free to check my bracket with some of Toronto and the Northeast's best.

Thanks for the excuse to flex my ego.

show me your winnings, bruh.

Me, MonkeyBizness on the left. Seventy dollars for second place at GameOn #3. Where have you placed higher?


To the rest of the thread: Un-anti-airable without meter jump normals like Sonya's jump 1 spaced well, Kotal and Shinnok J1 spaced well, and Lao and Jin jump 2s spaced well, are sinful to me.
I abuse run just as well as anyone else, but I don't really feel good about doing it, eith er.
MK9 broken shit was fun back in the day, but certainly not good for a top level competitive game.

 

[16 Bit]

Well for what it's worth I'd put Martian Manhunter behind Kabal and I was pretty good at MK9 and Injustice.

 

[KIllaByte]

Well for what it's worth I'd put Martian Manhunter behind Kabal and I was pretty good at MK9 and Injustice.

It is a weird cross game comparison, I'll admit, but MMH seems to take the Kabal formula of giving him as many tools as possible, and then gives him even more tools, but slightly less good tools.
EX orbs could function like a MID standing 2 nomad dash cancel, though.
And teleport. And stretchy limbs. And OTG damage that doubles Kabals.... and safe 50-50s that Kabal didn't have outside of special combo enders....
Kabal kind of gets stuck into pressure mode and zone mode, because his best advancing normal is what, forward 3? Not too good.
Kabal definitely has better armor, flash parry much more versatile than B3, for sure...

 

[16 Bit]

King Hippo's post is good.

For all the talk about defensive options MK9 Kitana's options at -3 against Cage could easily be worse for her than being -10 in MKX in a matchup. Context is everything.

 

[REO]

In MK9, many competitive tournament players didn't like characters like Kabal for how good and well rounded he was. Same reason they didn't like characters like Sonya and Kenshi for safe armor attacks. Lots of players also disliked characters like Cage for the relentless chip and suffocating pressure, Cyrax and Smoke for resets and 80% combos, etc.etc. There were many things that competitive players wanted to be weeded out so that it could be an amazing game.

The point that I'm getting at, is a lot of competitive players that want to devote most of their free time into a fighting game would rather be rewarded off pure reads and skill and do not like dealing with bullshit or ridiculous characters because it tampers with the hard work you put into a game. It doesn't matter how many hours you put into defending against a non react-able 50/50, the end result will always be comparable to a mere coin flip. It also doesn't matter how much time you put in against +10 launching or loop-able block pressure, the end result will always be you having to be stuck there and dealing with it.

MKX shouldn't have made the staple character design of the roster resemble characters like Kabal and Batgirl but on crack. So instead of 1 Kabal we have 10 or more Kabal characters and instead of 1 Batgirl we have 15 or more Batgirl characters and this is why you have a lot of angry or salty tournament players that wish the game wasn't full of such bullshit and ridiculousness.

The problem was always characters like Kabal and Batgirl existing, not the lack of the AMOUNT of Kabals and Batgirl to combat Kabal and Batgirl.

The game was balanced in the wrong direction, IMO. I really hope Injustice 2 or MK11 becomes a very rewarding and satisfying game to play at a high level and something like we've never played before.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

They're both good for different reasons. Obviously MKX is newer so it portrays better graphics and more attention to DLC and patches/hotfixes. It has more game content and personal character vs character intros. It's also more balanced overall as whole, almost every single character in the game has at least one viable variation.

MK9 has a much worse balance and if you're not a top 15 character you don't stand a chance whatsoever on a competitive environment. But overall it has MUCH less 50/50's and setplay which in result lead to the better player being able to outplay the lesser play 90% of the time. It's also worth noting MK9 has the best story mode of all fighting games.

The reason MK9 is so much more fun to watch than any other NRS game is the emphasis on the neutral game. If you were to watch high-level play between characters who were not top tier, the monitor would just be oozing footsies and conditioning. It's almost like a very fast-paced Street Fighter game.

Also, yea, MK9 Story Mode > all (except MKD). Injustice and MKX were huge disapointments in the story mode department.

It's kind of crazy how known the NRS community is for shitting on their own games. It's possible for NRS to have made more than "one" good game.

I seriously can't wait for what the community and the newer players say about MKX in 2 or more years when Injustice 2 or MK11 is upon us.

MK9 and MKX are way too different of games, IMO. I think comparing Injustice to MKX is a better example since the meta is a bit more similar with both games.

CAPCOM players shit on their own games all the time. You just don't see it happen as often because their games don't come out as frequently.