Zangief General Discussion Thread

[countrypistol]

Just in case you just started playing Zangief this game... Snake Eyes my brother. Check him out if you don't already know. Also excellent post!

I've watched as many of Snakeeyes matches as I can find, but they haven't been overly helpful. In the videos I've seen his opponents have spent their time playing footsies and zoning him out, not jumping like lunatics and rushing down like the lower level online play. If you know of any videos where he's against a relentless jumping bean Ken or Rashid let me know. I'd been keen to see what he does.

 

[countrypistol]

I can't believe I forgot to mention this, but light spd at max range will grab people mashing crouch jab (a big problem at lower levels if SRK and EHubs are to be believed). The spacing needs to be reasonably precise (you don't want to get too close and have your hurt box over extend), but with practice that range will become second nature anyway.

Why do this instead of a s.hp Crush Counter? The start up of s.hp telegraphs the move, especially charged, and will often result in some kind of escape or armour break. If they adapt and begin jumping backwards when you get close, you can crush counter with s.hk and confirm into head butt or ex air spd.

Them jumping backwards works in your favour too, as they are helping corner themselves, but look out for the jump out attempts when you get to just outside max s.hp range. People panic and that's normally their go to.

 

[ChoseDeath]

I've watched as many of Snakeeyes matches as I can find, but they haven't been overly helpful. In the videos I've seen his opponents have spent their time playing footsies and zoning him out, not jumping like lunatics and rushing down like the lower level online play. If you know of any videos where he's against a relentless jumping bean Ken or Rashid let me know. I'd been keen to see what he does.

I've watched as many of Snakeeyes matches as I can find, but they haven't been overly helpful. In the videos I've seen his opponents have spent their time playing footsies and zoning him out, not jumping like lunatics and rushing down like the lower level online play. If you know of any videos where he's against a relentless jumping bean Ken or Rashid let me know. I'd been keen to see what he does.

Well that's true, because he only plays high level shit. Try TheCoolKid93 (he might have some lower level matches). I don't know if Snake has to play online at all, lol. If I find any I'll try and share them with you bro.

 

[countrypistol]

Well that's true, because he only plays high level shit. Try TheCoolKid93 (he might have some lower level matches). I don't know if Snake has to play online at all, lol. If I find any I'll try and share them with you bro.

From what I understand he plays online under different names. FightMoney is supposedly him.

 

[ChoseDeath]

From what I understand he plays online under different names. FightMoney is supposedly him.

Oh sweet, I was unaware of that! Thank you.

 

[JJvercetti]

From what I understand he plays online under different names. FightMoney is supposedly him.

He also used to use giefkid or something similar

 

[countrypistol]

I think I've found a post spd meaty set up to beat wake up jabs (no ground tech).

Land a light spd, whiff a f.hp, then dash and do a c.mp. It beat a dummy recorded crouching jab wake up and got the counter hit marker, but I don't know if it's the best method for landing meaties (it's a new thing for me tbh). C.mp can confirm into s.lk-lariat, so it's got that going for it.

Edit: the c.mp can be done too early, so it's not reliable. Whiffed f.hp-dash-f.hp seems better.

 

[JJvercetti]

Well here is one of my matches against a low level Rashid, really just posting to show the V-Trigger punishing his one in round 1.

 

[JJvercetti]

I guess I will be waiting to see if the 1 frame increase on jumps will affect Giefs game, If not I guess I will see you guys next year when the patch notes hit.

 

[ChoseDeath]

I guess I will be waiting to see if the 1 frame increase on jumps will affect Giefs game, If not I guess I will see you guys next year when the patch notes hit.

Are we agreeing Gief is the worst in the game? And Snake Eyes is a god?

 

[JJvercetti]

Are we agreeing Gief is the worst in the game? And Snake Eyes is a god?

Bottom tier. I just feel that his tools in this game is not good enough for an upclose grappler (no fast plus normals on block except c.lp wtf), damage is a pure guess. Need I go on lol

Apparently Gief was able to actually combo in ex SPD which is actually very good but they took it away.

 

[ChoseDeath]

Bottom tier. I just feel that his tools in this game is not good enough for an upclose grappler (no fast plus normals on block except c.lp wtf), damage is a pure guess. Need I go on lol

Apparently Gief was able to actually combo in ex SPD which is actually very good but they took it away.

No sir, no need to elaborate. I feel your pain believe me! I feel the only way to win with Zangief is to be fully ready to play every round until time out and never miss any punish, and even then it's tough. My favorite so far is my friend who plays Ken. I beat him pretty good our first few sets, then he made a few adjustments and starts wrecking me. His synopsis was "All I have to do to win is stay in your face. You can't block everything I do and SPD is too slow to punish my strings."

So there you go. To beat a grappler, stay in his face. The fuck.

 

[ChoseDeath]

Bottom tier. I just feel that his tools in this game is not good enough for an upclose grappler (no fast plus normals on block except c.lp wtf), damage is a pure guess. Need I go on lol

Apparently Gief was able to actually combo in ex SPD which is actually very good but they took it away.

Holy shit, was he really? Bro... That would be amazing. We need that back ASAP. I'll always play the Red Cyclone, but don't think I won't move to Birdie or Alex lickety-split.

 

[Icepick]

Bottom tier. I just feel that his tools in this game is not good enough for an upclose grappler (no fast plus normals on block except c.lp wtf), damage is a pure guess. Need I go on lol

Apparently Gief was able to actually combo in ex SPD which is actually very good but they took it away.

He is bottom tier. Unless you have insane patience, god-like reactions and amazing defense, you are going to get smashed. He has too many horrible matchups in this game. To be honest, I think R. Mika is a much better grappler than Zangief.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

Well here is one of my matches against a low level Rashid, really just posting to show the V-Trigger punishing his one in round 1.

On his vtrigger do you keep holding the buttons for his vtrigger to keep spinning? Also after that can you do the spd? Or better yet after the h.K can you do the spd?

 

[JJvercetti]

On his vtrigger do you keep holding the buttons for his vtrigger to keep spinning? Also after that can you do the spd? Or better yet after the h.K can you do the spd?

Yes just hold it for the full spin. If you want to do the air spd after, it has to be ex or you can do the hk reset but its a guess after since the opponent can jump or jab you.

 

[JJvercetti]

Holy shit, was he really? Bro... That would be amazing. We need that back ASAP. I'll always play the Red Cyclone, but don't think I won't move to Birdie or Alex lickety-split.

I think it was in one of the betas but I never played any of them. I will always play Gief too but its hilarious that pseudo grapplers actually fill the grappler role better then him ie birdie

 

[countrypistol]

He only needs one tweak. Lariat needs a better start up hit box to allow it to combo more consistently. If we could combo into lariat at any distance where c.lp-s.lk hits (and on crouching opponents too), we could put the fear into opponents trying to rush Gief down. Without that, most 4 frame punishes end up as just shy of 60 damage, with it they would be around 120.

If they did this, then it would mean that the opponent would have a 50/50 to defend against every time they make a bad decision close up. If they block they get grabbed (or a jab short hit confirm), if they jump they get hit, if they back dash they get hit, if they poke, they get hit, and if they invincible reversal they run the risk of being baited and crush countered. At the moment jumping is the best option because at worst they get air SPD'd (which requires a read and spot on execution) but will more than likely get jabbed into a reset or catch a whiffed spd.

As it stands he is low tier, if not 16th on the tier list, but I stand by my earlier point that learning Gief forces you to learn the game. You're not going to win with him by mindlessly crossing up or spamming reversals. Instead, you need to study the match ups, spot the holes and maximise your damage.

I agree that staying on top of him is a solid strategy as he no longer can grab you with a 2 frame spd, but with solid blocking and anti airs you can shut down most offence and force a mistake. It's capitalising on those mistakes that will make or break you as a Gief player, and will require hours of practice.

I'm also starting to suspect that Gief is similar to Birdie and Necali in that your early round should be spent building v trigger and meter, whilst slowly pushing your opponent to the corner with the intention of activating trigger at the earliest opportunity. You can combo into his super from pretty much every normal (I'm not sure if there are some I'm just not doing properly), and when in V Trigger you can combo into cyclone from most moves as well as parry multi hitting moves, all of which make him very scary to mess up against. It'll require more thought as to the best way of implementing this approach though. Being so meter dependent could end up being another reason for him being so low on the tier list.

 

[ChoseDeath]

He only needs one tweak. Lariat needs a better start up hit box to allow it to combo more consistently. If we could combo into lariat at any distance where c.lp-s.lk hits (and on crouching opponents too), we could put the fear into opponents trying to rush Gief down. Without that, most 4 frame punishes end up as just shy of 60 damage, with it they would be around 120.

If they did this, then it would mean that the opponent would have a 50/50 to defend against every time they make a bad decision close up. If they block they get grabbed (or a jab short hit confirm), if they jump they get hit, if they back dash they get hit, if they poke, they get hit, and if they invincible reversal they run the risk of being baited and crush countered. At the moment jumping is the best option because at worst they get air SPD'd (which requires a read and spot on execution) but will more than likely get jabbed into a reset or catch a whiffed spd.

As it stands he is low tier, if not 16th on the tier list, but I stand by my earlier point that learning Gief forces you to learn the game. You're not going to win with him by mindlessly crossing up or spamming reversals. Instead, you need to study the match ups, spot the holes and maximise your damage.

I agree that staying on top of him is a solid strategy as he no longer can grab you with a 2 frame spd, but with solid blocking and anti airs you can shut down most offence and force a mistake. It's capitalising on those mistakes that will make or break you as a Gief player, and will require hours of practice.

I'm also starting to suspect that Gief is similar to Birdie and Necali in that your early round should be spent building v trigger and meter, whilst slowly pushing your opponent to the corner with the intention of activating trigger at the earliest opportunity. You can combo into his super from pretty much every normal (I'm not sure if there are some I'm just not doing properly), and when in V Trigger you can combo into cyclone from most moves as well as party multi hitting moves, all of which make him very scary to mess up against. It'll require more thought as to the best way of implementing this approach though. Being so meter dependent could end up being another reason for him being so low on the tier list.

Can we get you to make the next patch please?

Seriously, I'll take my SPD like in Ultra, I'll take a green hand, I'll take that lariat that works, ANYTHING to make the opponent scared to just smash on me.

I'm not as lenient about Gief's setup as you are though. Like I said, the ENTIRE onus is on you to do anything, because your opponent has very little to fear. We'll see how it goes.

Oh, and I find out today you can OS your wake up to Tech throws, block any non-low attack, AND then you'll jump away. By holding up-back and hitting throw while you get up, that's it. So... That doesn't help.

 

[countrypistol]

Can we get you to make the next patch please?

Seriously, I'll take my SPD like in Ultra, I'll take a green hand, I'll take that lariat that works, ANYTHING to make the opponent scared to just smash on me.

I'm not as lenient about Gief's setup as you are though. Like I said, the ENTIRE onus is on you to do anything, because your opponent has very little to fear. We'll see how it goes.

Oh, and I find out today you can OS your wake up to Tech throws, block any non-low attack, AND then you'll jump away. By holding up-back and hitting throw while you get up, that's it. So... That doesn't help.

Yeah I saw that, it's fucking dumb.

I don't mind the onus being entirely on me because when it works I know it was because I made it work, and I love that feeling. That said, I've just started playing Ryu today as a way of learning the match up, and it's a little annoying that he has tools for everything and other characters are much more limited. I know dp's run the risk of being crush countered, but invincibility frames for free? They should at least cost a bar, and be available to everybody. It was one of the more mindless elements of the previous games, and I am disappointed that they chose to keep it in this one too.

 

[ChoseDeath]

Yeah I saw that, it's fucking dumb.

I don't mind the onus being entirely on me because when it works I know it was because I made it work, and I love that feeling. That said, I've just started playing Ryu today as a way of learning the match up, and it's a little annoying that he has tools for everything and other characters are much more limited. I know dp's run the risk of being crush countered, but invincibility frames for free? They should at least cost a bar, and be available to everybody. It was one of the more mindless elements of the previous games, and I am disappointed that they chose to keep it in this one too.

True that, preach on brother!

I'm gonna start playing Laura or Mika I think. I'll still get to play a grappler but ones with mobility and better options. Death to Shoryu's forever! Lol

 

[GAV]

Gief is a mix of Hulk and Dan with him being Russian to add to his strongman circus-flair.

His style is one where you have to make the most of his opportunities, so do it with big damage or taunting quips.

I played a few games with him online and won them by teabagging all game long. I don't expect this to work on everyone, but these were randoms - and you can block and walk forward while teabagging in spots without much danger of getting hit.

 

[JJvercetti]

Gief is a mix of Hulk and Dan with him being Russian to add to his strongman circus-flair.

His style is one where you have to make the most of his opportunities, so do it with big damage or taunting quips.

I played a few games with him online and won them by teabagging all game long. I don't expect this to work on everyone, but these were randoms - and you can block and walk forward while teabagging in spots without much danger of getting hit.

My vid in this thread, while it was to demonstrate the VTrigger stuff literally demonstrates Giefs plan just without any VSkill stuff.

 

[ChoseDeath]

My vid in this thread, while it was to demonstrate the VTrigger stuff literally demonstrates Giefs plan just without any VSkill stuff.

Yeah, and you were right too. You, myself, and @countrypistol all agree, lol. I think he is just way more patient than us, lol.

 

[JJvercetti]

Yeah, and you were right too. You, myself, and @countrypistol all agree, lol. I think he is just way more patient than us, lol.

I realized that as I posted it. I had a match yesterday where I messed up my combo due to lariat whiffing and I felt like giving my opponent the win lol, lucky he was not that good or I would have got punished big time.