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General/Other - Acidic can we talk about Acidic?...

why was it "funny" when morons downplayed Quan? You were one of the worst for it, and that ended up resulting in a patch that brought us one of the most unbalanced characters in the games life, so it's super hypocritical when you get pissy when you think other people are downplaying just because it's not your character, even after admitting to doing it yourself. You've already proven and admitted you don't care about balance brah you just care about your characters, take this shit elsewhere


That's still the definition on "nothing guaranteed". When something is guaranteed its means its jail giving your opponent no options other than block if you go for that move. Pressing any of the buttons you described doesn't guarantee any of them, you risk making the wrong read or getting armored or a bunch of things on all of them.

Not saying that's unfair or anything either. But it just means its not guaranteed, like say LK's run cancel pressure or Scorp's pressure after a standing reset.
Ironiclly i play acidic too sooo ye downplaying quan was enjoyable was because he was quan
 
why was it "funny" when morons downplayed Quan? You were one of the worst for it, and that ended up resulting in a patch that brought us one of the most unbalanced characters in the games life, so it's super hypocritical when you get pissy when you think other people are downplaying just because it's not your character, even after admitting to doing it yourself. You've already proven and admitted you don't care about balance brah you just care about your characters, take this shit elsewhere


That's still the definition on "nothing guaranteed". When something is guaranteed its means its jail giving your opponent no options other than block if you go for that move. Pressing any of the buttons you described doesn't guarantee any of them, you risk making the wrong read or getting armored or a bunch of things on all of them.

Not saying that's unfair or anything either. But it just means its not guaranteed, like say LK's run cancel pressure or Scorp's pressure after a standing reset.
Also i dont think that the guy was downplaying on purpose who knows , i dont mind it lol , i was messing around with him.
 

jackempty0

Born on a Monday
Johnny cassie jaqui jax sonya quan all of the borgs leatherface bo rai cho. The list goes on. It might be easier to name characters who don't have a scary corner game.

It has been 2 weeks knee jerk reactions on this site never cease to amaze me
 
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jackempty0

Born on a Monday
not being able to play footsie? true true
cus it's not like if he whiffs his anti air or if you ever accidentally jump and make him whiff a string leads into full combo punish
not like the man lives at 30 recovery frames
people will complain about anything
been chilling with dhalism for years and y'all complaining about this after 2 weeks?
You don't understand. With the patching nrs has spoiled this community into crybabies
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
I'm pretty much the authority on how Venomous' dots work, so I'll try and explain them real quick. First off, they're entirely different from Alien's. Each (standard) stack of Venom does 1.5% damage over 5 ticks and starts the ticking process in general. Each stack after the first does 1.5% damage + (n + .35%) bonus damage for each additional application, where n is the amount of bonus damage applied by the last stack. So it would look like .35 for the first, .35+.35 for the second, .70+.35 for the third, and so on. This leads to ridiculous damage if you can start a combo and apply many stacks, the weakness of Venomous being that you can't really do this from a 50/50. All of this damage is applied over the 5 second duration of the initial venom application. It also makes maximizing combo damage a pain in the ass, especially while factoring in that the dots scale to the combo they're in. If you have one measly little d1 tick going before you start a corner punish, you can lose 10% damage, easy. Here are the charts that were made off my figuring all this out

http://testyourmight.com/threads/the-venomous-tick-damage-spread-sheet-and-charts.57945/

With Alien, when you hit 2 sprays, you've got 2 sprays. It's a flat increase like any other projectile. Get hit with Dark Beam twice, 16% damage done immediately. Get hit with the acid spray, 16% done over a course of however many seconds. There is effectively only one difference I can see and that is that Alien's projectiles are partially unscaled in combos. The initial hit likely is, but the dot itself? Not from what I've been told.

Also, as someone who read this thread, you came off as incredibly condescending to Omooba based off your own lack of clarity. You repeatedly stated you felt that the total damage was fine, but the duration was the problem. Then when you take the time to clarify that you mean the damage of the individual ticks, you do it by lowering the actual total damage of the spray. Why wouldn't he be confused when you are being so contradictory? Your entire argument is just...pointless, by the way. You seem very upset that the 8% projectile is eating away at your health over the course of seconds instead of instantaneously. If anything, that makes it weaker than a normal one when done outside of a combo.
I've had a really fucking shitty day so some of that is going to leak into this and I'm sorry, but you're poking a fire that doesn't want to be poked right now and is looking for a decent outlet

First off, (sincerely, no sarcasm) thanks for the info on venomous, good read. Secondly, in another post I highlighted the differences between venomous and Acidic so if you truly did read the thread you would have seen that, you are free to make an argument against the points I made in that post, and I look forward to it. Thirdly, I admit that I didn't make my distinction between the damage of the ticks vs the damage over time explicitly clear when I began, so I can kindasortanotreallyatall see how that would be confusing (see "Fifthly"), I don't understand how you would reduce the duration of a tick, duration clearly applies to the dot effect not the individual ticks themselves. The reason I "lowered" the damage was only to simplify the point I was trying to make (that changing the duration of dot would reduce the total damage without affecting the damage of the individual ticks), I was just pulling numbers out of my ass to make a point. Fourthly (this is why I apologized at the beginning so I had less qualms about writing this), must feel real nice being the butthurt police yea? *slap on the back too hard*

And Fifthly (and most saltily), its really hard not to be condescending to an adult who can't add, unless (s)he(Omooba) is like 4 years old then I can kinda get why they can't add 2 and 3 properly. Omooba opened the door by accusing me of possibly being slow, not something I take kindly to. And also I was perfectly civil and actively trying to help him in a few comments made about Leatherface.

the thing is if you get hit by dark beam twice, you don't continue to take minor amounts of damage all the while having to guess/respect the crazy mixup potential, and insane mind/pressure game he has in the corner.

I apologize for being a dick but its hard when you're in a shit mood.
 

xxFalcon Loverxx

Ignorant slaves, how quickly you forget.
problem is, even if you learn the MU, in this game, some characters gets completly overwhelmed by his tools, they just dont have options around it, and you're putting the stacking chip on top of his already great zoning tools... like, for me it's bad design when some characters dont even have any option to conter his zoning
It's called a "bad match-up" :DOGE
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I don't understand, I don't see how his projectile is any better than any other 8% damage projectile apart from hitbox possibly. Is doing the damage over time somehow beneficial? All I can see is that it gives your opponent extra time to possibly kill you.
 

Israel

Noob
.
2. (This one is more my opinion to be fair) Why is doing an 8% DoT something to complain about? An 8% straight up projectile would be superior. Also Reptile's spit does 8%(?) and kills. I see no reason why Alien's shouldn't kill just because it is a DoT... Though this is just my own opinion.
.
Exactly. If you opponent has 5% health left, and you 8% projectile and kills them. Whats the difference if aliens, just happen to do 8% over time rather than kill you immediately. If anything you should be happy you got a an extra second and 1/2 to do some desperate attempt to kill him lol
 

Trustypatches

PSN: Boweeen, Twitch: rBoweeen
I tested this shortly without using EX Krawl setup (meterless):
a: f4 overhead catches backdashes
b: f1 mid beats pokes and jumpouts
c: b1 high beats NEUTRAL CROUCHING, jumpouts and pokes, does not catch backdashes (the fu..?)
So "nothing" isn't very accurate, it becomes a mind game strongly in Aliens favor. Space it correctly and this move wins on hit and on block against anyone.

edit:
d: opponent is conditioned not to backdash, poke, jumpout or even neutral crouch, good opportunity for a Throw or even B3
e: eating all those mixups probably got them a bar of meter for armor by now.. d4 -EX Tail Flip!
this breaks Armor using different mixups as well.

Dunno seems a bit unfair to me..
Nothing you have listed here whatsoever is guaranteed. You have listed things here which beat certain options, but none beat out all options. Nothing being guaranteed is 100% accurate haha.

I also didn't say the restand was bad in the slightest. I believe the meterless one to still be very effective. As I said in my post: I am just trying to clear up a lack of knowledge with this character after reading various silly posts in this thread.

-Just saw I got hands clear that up so sorry for the repeat haha.
 
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xxFalcon Loverxx

Ignorant slaves, how quickly you forget.
If something was actually guaranteed after the meterless restand, alien acidic would have 45% meterless bnbs in the corner lol.

Even so, the opponent has to respect your options after restand.
 

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
Nothing you have listed here whatsoever is guaranteed. You have listed things here which beat certain options, but none beat out all options. Nothing being guaranteed is 100% accurate haha.

I also didn't say the restand was bad in the slightest. I believe the meterless one to still be very effective. As I said in my post: I am just trying to clear up a lack of knowledge with this character after reading various silly posts in this thread.

-Just saw I got hands clear that up so sorry for the repeat haha.
No worries, I just wanna understand Alien. While yes, nothing is guaranteed isn't really a false statement, it doesn't stop Aliens pressure or any of his options which seemed what that comment implied.
If its on block spaced correctly, there's nothing to be done about it (except a backdash, perfect for Aliens preferred range, best alternative is Armor and I wouldn't recommend it), Alien maintains pressure otherwise.
If its on hit, any opponent has to respect your options, if they don't they risk getting hit by a mid or high, if they think to Armor (15~frame startup) it can be broken if Alien hits with anything+EX Tail flip (if he wants damage potential through mixups he has to EX Flip anyway, there's no added risk).

I think this move will be used in situations it wasn't designed for and it'll work out, no answer for it unless your character has invincibility, super armor or <15fr startup (have yet to fully test) armor , which are all costly options for something so cheap.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
No worries, I just wanna understand Alien. While yes, nothing is guaranteed isn't really a false statement, it doesn't stop Aliens pressure or any of his options which seemed what that comment implied.
its really not implied at all dude, thats not how the word "guaranteed" is used in regards to MKX

If its on hit, any opponent has to respect your options, if they don't they risk getting hit by a mid or high, if they think to Armor (15~frame startup) it can be broken if Alien hits with anything+EX Tail flip (if he wants damage potential through mixups he has to EX Flip anyway, there's no added risk).
that doesn't change the fact that he is still punishable just because hes punishable on other things too, fact is he is punishable here too

I think this move will be used in situations it wasn't designed for and it'll work out, no answer for it unless your character has invincibility, super armor or <15fr startup (have yet to fully test) armor , which are all costly options for something so cheap.
other than just blocking, costing Alien a bar, and full combo punish? I mean how is that not a costly option for something that literally only works if your opponent armors?





how plus exactly does it leave you btw I can't jump on and check
 
its really not implied at all dude, thats not how the word "guaranteed" is used in regards to MKX


that doesn't change the fact that he is still punishable just because hes punishable on other things too, fact is he is punishable here too


other than just blocking, costing Alien a bar, and full combo punish? I mean how is that not a costly option for something that literally only works if your opponent armors?





how plus exactly does it leave you btw I can't jump on and check
The normal restand? It's +11 on hit iirc ,ex is +55.
 

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
its really not implied at all dude, thats not how the word "guaranteed" is used in regards to MKX
that doesn't change the fact that he is still punishable just because hes punishable on other things too, fact is he is punishable here too
other than just blocking, costing Alien a bar, and full combo punish? I mean how is that not a costly option for something that literally only works if your opponent armors?
how plus exactly does it leave you btw I can't jump on and check
- Alright, I'll rephrase to that's what that comment implied to me. Saying "nothing" is guaranteed while having access to a 20/20/20/20/20 guessing game sounds kinda downplay-ey. But hey it's probably just me.
- The move is -8 at the very worst, that gets punished by a 6 frame high or <8 frame reversals, those are scarce.
- It's not "just blocking", it's blocking correctly, my points with that is if Alien is going for mixups after Acid Blood he can break armor without thinking about it in many MU's. Basically, the majority of the roster is forced to use armor on a read.
- On block: It's between +5-8, max range (gotta test more, though) On hit: it's +11 but I think the "on-hit"-properties are very unique to any other special, this needs to be tested by more people
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
- Alright, I'll rephrase to that's what that comment implied to me. Saying "nothing" is guaranteed while having access to a 20/20/20/20/20 guessing game sounds kinda downplay-ey. But hey it's probably just me.
- The move is -8 at the very worst, that gets punished by a 6 frame high or <8 frame reversals, those are scarce.
- It's not "just blocking", it's blocking correctly, my points with that is if Alien is going for mixups after Acid Blood he can break armor without thinking about it in many MU's. Basically, the majority of the roster is forced to use armor on a read.
- On block: It's between +5-8, max range (gotta test more, though) On hit: it's +11 but I think the "on-hit"-properties are very unique to any other special, this needs to be tested by more people
thats not a 20/20/20/20/20

blocking low literally beats all options you listed except for F4. And, nothing is guaranteed. There is a massive gap there.


Also, it's not -8, check the EX version. It becomes full combo punishable if you meterburn it.
 

Trustypatches

PSN: Boweeen, Twitch: rBoweeen
The normal restand? It's +11 on hit iirc ,ex is +55.
The frame data is wrong on normal acid blood (kind of) because of how it has HUGE active frames, so basically on hit AND block it can change a lot depending on how late the acid actually hits. At certain spacing it can be anything up to +25 on hit off certain setups (like f23 xx acid blood is +22, which can be used after EX krawl setups). In this case, they have to hold a f4/b3.

However we're talking about without spending any bar, so the main scenario for it to be used is in the corner. In this case, I have tried many times but never been able to jail a d1, even with hitting the acid restand at various heights. If someone has footage of them doing it though then fair enough. But I am pretty certain that with a corner meterless restand there is nothing guaranteed at all. I would say that it is +4/5 or so if I had to make a guess.
 
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Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
thats not a 20/20/20/20/20

blocking low literally beats all options you listed except for F4.


Also, it's not -8, check the EX version. It becomes full combo punishable if you meterburn it.
Yeah but I'm not talking about EX Erosive Blood. Acid Blood is -8, at the very worst.

After Acid Blood (on hit, non-setup):
- Blocking low: loses to f4 and Throw
- Blocking high: loses to b3 and Throw
- Backdashing: loses to f4
- Jumpouts: loses to highs, mids, pokes (probably f4 too)
- >15 fr Armor: loses to b3/f4 + EX Flip (= the only way to get damage potential off a mixup as Alien anyway)

20/20/20/20/20

If my logic is faulty, please tell me where I'm wrong.
 
The frame data is wrong on normal acid blood (kind of) because of how it has HUGE active frames, so basically on hit AND block it can change a lot depending on how late the acid actually hits. At correct spacing it can be anything up to +25 on hit off certain setups (like f23 xx acid blood is +22, which can be used after EX krawl setups). In this case, they have to hold a f4/b3.

However we're talking about without spending any bar, so the main scenario for it to be used is in the corner. In this case, I have tried many times but never been able to jail a d1, even with hitting the acid restand at various heights. If someone has footage of them doing it though then fair enough. But I am pretty certain that with a corner meterless restand there is nothing guaranteed at all (unless they can't armor). I would say that it is +4/5 or so if I had to make a guess.
Thanks for clearing that up, He has some intresting stuff with his flip that im posting later
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Yeah but I'm not talking about EX Erosive Blood. Acid Blood is -8, at the very worst.

After Acid Blood (on hit, non-setup):
- Blocking low: loses to f4 and Throw
- Blocking high: loses to b3 and Throw
- Backdashing: loses to f4
- Jumpouts: loses to highs, mids, pokes (probably f4 too)
- >15 fr Armor: loses to b3/f4 + EX Flip (= the only way to get damage potential off a mixup as Alien anyway)

20/20/20/20/20

If my logic is faulty, please tell me where I'm wrong.
we were talking about tail /flip right, you said ex tail flip to beat armor, that is full punishable


ok so now you are including throw in your mix-up, fine

and yes, just like every other 50/50 in the game, throw is always an option, all 50/50's are technically 33/33/33


however thats all this is. the option to backdash or armor doesn't make the mix-up even BETTER for Alien, it makes it even worse, you are by no means forced to do it. If anything, the 20/20/20/20/20 is the options available to the blocker to punish this, from Aliens side it is still AT MOST just putting out an MKX standard 50/50 after a standing reset. You seem to be looking at things like "oh I can jump out of the 50/50" as a bad thing for you on defense, and then being like "ok 25/25/25/25", then being like, "oh I can backdash if he goes for a mid damn this mix-up just became a 20/20/20/20/20 however do I block this?" no, each option you have to get out of it is making the mix-up EASIER to get out of not harder, guaranteed means you would be forced to sit there and guess one way or another, a true 50/50, and that is not what this is.
 

Israel

Noob
Also guys, im not sure that acid blood being -8 is accurate. Because in vidoes in other threads, regarding tech, one of the players posted how he can do 112 acid blood in the corner and be safe against KL's reversal spin. So..i honestly just look at it being safe. prob -5 or so.
 

Trustypatches

PSN: Boweeen, Twitch: rBoweeen
Also guys, im not sure that acid blood being -8 is accurate. Because in vidoes in other threads, regarding tech, one of the players posted how he can do 112 acid blood in the corner and be safe against KL's reversal spin. So..i honestly just look at it being safe. prob -5 or so.
Yeah it has varying block frames. From further ranges it becomes better on block. At the furthest ranges it is +. Certain strings set it up to further ranges while still jailing into the acid, like 112 and f13.
 

Gengar

Hypnosis > Dreameater (its a reset)
Ive been able to get F134~close acid to be safe on block from reversal EX spin.
 

Israel

Noob
Yeah it has varying block frames. From further ranges it becomes better on block. At the furthest ranges it is +. Certain strings set it up to further ranges while still jailing into the acid, like 112 and f13.
ok cool. so its most likely gonna be safe. Unless its used upclose raw? So its most likely going to go unpunished 95% of the time. Part of me wishes that that 1% backfire wasnt there lol. It really does matter... that stuff adds up.

They should take it out, or reduce it 0.5% xD