Match-up Discussion I need help against Johnny Cage.

[Durango]

I just faced A F0xy Grampa on Ranked and it was an absolute disaster. He camped me, nutpunching under my iceballs and keeping me at bay. The moment I got close enough, I threw a jump kick. For whatever reason, his 1 can beat my jump kick, ending in a loop. I could do nothing. I can't bait with Ice Clones, and if I dare jump in, it's 1 time and I will never get away once the blockstring begins.

 

[NogunYesknife]

lol hes the best JC player in the world..... dont get too upset. hes so hard to zone out too.

 

[Fatality_check]

Yeah, he's basically a right bastard to beat. I main a sub and rarely beat him.

Basically never jump unless you're right close.

It's quite an annoying matchup because you can't really jump, and it's not like you can chip him at a distance so he just backs away waiting for you to come and get raped. I usually have to try and close him down with a slide and just try and pressure but being close to Cage is not nice, and you can get caught in that pressure so easily.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I love turtling sub

 

[CD jr]

thats one of cages worst matchup you just need to learn the matchup sub destroys cage

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

thats one of cages worst matchup you just need to learn the matchup sub destroys cage

Sub doesnt 'destroy' Cage, its obviously a difficult matchup though. Sub can only hurt him up close remember, its down to who gets the lifelead 1st.

 

[CD jr]

Sub doesnt destroy Cage. Sub can only hurt him up close remember, its down to who gets the lifelead 1st

dude when cage has no meter he cant do shit against sub it doesnt matter if cage has the lead if sub gets him to the corner is game over

 

[Mechacide]

If you're unable to jump in, don't jump in. Dash in and d+4, or 2,2, or (2),2, or 2,2,4 xx Clone. You only need to get a small lead, and then you can make him come to you. Neither character can hurt each other from a distance. If Sub tries to zone Cage he just gives him a way to build meter, and if Cage tries to zone Sub he loses 9% of his health (from Slide).

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

dude when cage has no meter he cant do shit against sub it doesnt matter if cage has the lead if sub gets him to the corner is game over

Cage can build meter full screen vs Sub just as easy, the red kick can be used to gain a life lead and run away, Cages pokes help him when hes in the corner vs Sub.

Cage wants the corner vs Sub just as much as Sub wants the corner

 

[CD jr]

Cage can build meter full screen vs Sub just as easy, the red kick can be used to gain a life lead and run away, Cages pokes help him when hes in the corner vs Sub.

Cage wants the corner vs Sub just as much as Sub wants the corner

lol play tom bradys sub and then i can agree with what you are saying.for now the matchup is 6-4 against cage

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Carefully timed projectiles from Cage will chip Sub down too, and on block give a bit of meter, just need to be careful to not trade.

 

[Playpal]

Playing Johnny Cage probably requires the most patient and most careful rushdown sub-zero has to take. Don't jump, Cage has good anti-air far away and up close. JIPs are unreliable because he's got a flip kick and a 7 frame uppercut, plus really good players like foxy can jab you and go into a combo.

Both players are going to be playing it careful, always be mindful of cage's meter. He's probably going to keep his distance until he can find a hole in your defense and capitalize (red shadow kick, d1, wakeup nutpunch etc.). Get closer to cage but be mindful of his red shadow kick. Get some strings on him, throws, D4, shit you'd normally do on people and keep that clone up at all times. Just be careful as the wakeup red shadow kick can punish your clone. Remember that red shadow kick is a mid, so you can't duck under it unlike the green one. Remember to use D4 and ice clones, as johnny cage can reverse pressure and then you'll get stuck in his frame traps. And when he has full meter be mindful of that xray; getting hit with causes you to lose 50% and leave you in nut punch position (worst case scenario).

 

[Bidu]

dude when cage has no meter he cant do shit against sub it doesnt matter if cage has the lead if sub gets him to the corner is game over

Enough said.

If you're unable to jump in, don't jump in. Dash in and d+4, or 2,2, or (2),2, or 2,2,4 xx Clone. You only need to get a small lead, and then you can make him come to you. Neither character can hurt each other from a distance. If Sub tries to zone Cage he just gives him a way to build meter, and if Cage tries to zone Sub he loses 9% of his health (from Slide).

I just don't get the "Neither character can hurt each other from a distance" part. Since Sub has Slide and Cage has projectiles. Other than that, totally agree with the rest you said.

Cage can build meter full screen vs Sub just as easy, the red kick can be used to gain a life lead and run away, Cages pokes help him when hes in the corner vs Sub.

Cage wants the corner vs Sub just as much as Sub wants the corner

I really don't think any other character in this game wants the corner more than Sub-Zero. Specially if the opponent has no teleport.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I really don't think any other character in this game wants the corner more than Sub-Zero. Specially if the opponent has no teleport.

I'm gonna go so far to say that Cage in the corner > Sub in the corner

The spaces in which you can break out are more obvious when you play against a Sub compared to a Cage.
On top of that it doesnt matter if the player has a teleport/armour or whatever, if the Cage player plays their cards right the other guy is never gonna get out

 

[Nick T.]

I agree ^^

The match is hard for Cage when he wants to get in, but once he does, Sub can have a very hard time getting Cage off of him. It really comes down to the player and pace more than anything. It's not as black and white as people are saying it is.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I'm gonna go so far to say that Cage in the corner > Sub in the corner

The spaces in which you can break out are more obvious when you play against a Sub compared to a Cage.
On top of that it doesnt matter if the player has a teleport/armour or whatever, if the Cage player plays their cards right the other guy is never gonna get out

This matchup is so like the Sub mirror it isn't even funny. JC's pressure is like a clone in its own self. I'd say they are even... Cage might put out more damage... but sub literally makes every move you make unsafe.
I really wanted to play our ranked match. Stupid internets. I don't mind losing to people who are just better. Only way I can learn.

 

[salvificblood]

thats one of cages worst matchup you just need to learn the matchup sub destroys cage

It should be a difficult matchup for Cage, but obviously it's not always like that in practise. Foxy is the best Johnny Cage, so it's no disgrace that somebody has a hard time against him. The matchup is not so lopsided that a lower level Sub-Zero player will just automatically have success against Foxy just because he knows the rudiments of the Sub-Zero, Johnny Cage matchup. This is where playing the player and not the character is important.

Dashing in and doing 22 or d4 too often will get you killed very quickly. You have to play Cage like he has his own ice clone.

 

[ForeverKing]

your never gonna beat cage rushing rushing with sub-zero. or anyone for that matter, cage has the best rushdown and close up fighting in the whole game. really the only way to beat a good johnny cage is to just out zone him. once you get close and get into those frame traps, its game over. and about the corner, i would say cage has the best corner game out of all the characters. if he keeps on pressuring you he will eventually chip you or catch you with f4, 21f2, b3, or u2. and getting caught with any of those in the corner by JC will result in 40+% damage and a nutpunch finish, to start his pressure and frame traps all over again

 

[GNG Iniquity]

F0xy is just the best JC out there, the guy dick punches your frozen balls; c'mon now. He's a few tiers above the rest.

 

[sLeeK]

I love turtling sub

"nutpunching under my iceballs" foxy I love you.. MIND GAMES SON

 

[Playpal]

I disagree with the tactic of zoning. Yes, sub-zero controls space like no other character but that does not mean he is a zoning character. Kabal, kitana, shang tsung and noob saibot are zoning characters. You're not getting anywhere playing keep away, throwing ice balls. With no threat of damage at long range, Johnny cage is just going to walk you down and you'll get stuck into the corner. As soon as he figures out your game of keep away, he probably won't even bother using shadow kick until it'll take you to the corner. I agree that you might end up having to put more work into spacing, but that's it. JC vs SZ is a game of who can get who in the corner first. How do you get Johnny cage in the corner? Sure, you could put yourself in the corner and then cross up. Or you could scare the shit out of your opponent and force him into the corner.

 

[Bidu]

I'm gonna go so far to say that Cage in the corner > Sub in the corner

The spaces in which you can break out are more obvious when you play against a Sub compared to a Cage.
On top of that it doesnt matter if the player has a teleport/armour or whatever, if the Cage player plays their cards right the other guy is never gonna get out

I understand what you trying to say. But I haven't seem many JC at your level. Actually it was a surprise to me watching Mustard, one of the best MK9 player that I've seem in a LONG while, been outplayed by your JC.

But I really would looooooooooooove to see your JC against one fine Sub-Zero. It would be epic... or maybe it would end just like Mustard?

WHERE'S TOM TO THROW A CHALLENGE? muahahaha

 

[Bidu]

This matchup is so like the Sub mirror it isn't even funny. JC's pressure is like a clone in its own self. I'd say they are even... Cage might put out more damage... but sub literally makes every move you make unsafe.
I really wanted to play our ranked match. Stupid internets. I don't mind losing to people who are just better. Only way I can learn.

This.

 

[loogie]

haven't played top JCs lately, i main Sub and I have to say everytime someone picks JC i smile a bit... haven't faced foxygrandpa either, i know he will pummel me though
a useful combo on JC i've been using of late, is after 2,1,2 ice ball i dash and do the f+4, 1+2 and it sends them a good full screen distance away since the 1+2 hits them while their in the air and the distance they travel is much more than when you do the f+4,1+2 on its own. then JC has to come to you or try a red shadow kick to close the distance again, then you are one step ahead (block > punish).

note: obviously the 2,1,2 ib can be replaced with 2,2,4 en ib or 2,1,4 en ib if you have meter to spare

 

[BenGmanUk]

I played as Johnny last night and the guy immediately went to sub. Ex kicked through his clone followed by nut punching under iceballs. Rage quit followed by hate mail saying 'dude your a fucking dick!'.

I didn't want to correct his spelling. Fun times...