Will Street Fighter V be the SF to ease in for Injustice players?

[SuppaSapien3]

You know, as I staring at the wall thinking about the game play mechanics of Street Fighter V, which is not to far from release, I began to think how this will be a fighting game where most of the characters can no longer get damaging combos off their shorts and light punches, and how you will have to make more committed decisions in the game with other normals. I though that was a very interesting idea for a fighter, and then I remembered Superman d1/ing f23ing me in Injustice lol. Typically it seems like there is alot of similarities between Injustice and this upcoming street fighter even more so than the other iterations. As in Injustice your fastest normals really arn't used to often to start combos in the neutral, (unless you ar Sinestro/Doomsday), and is more set on frame trapping and baiting. You can not block in the sky, and sometimes some characters have better anti airs with jumps in, then on the ground. The V-skill/V-Trigger system, seems similar to the trait system found in injustice, with some people's seeming better than others. Also, like SFV will be, every normal besides your quickest poke functions with a good reliable use in Injustic...hahahaHAHA, sorry I couldn't finish typing that line.(Really NR you still could't get it right with MKX?) I know there are some differences that can keep a Injustice player from performing well in SFV such as footsies,(cause we all know what Injustice footies are -__-,*cough, superman, *cough) but do you think this game will be easy for Injustice players (or even MK players) to transition to or is the game still just too foreign? Just a friendly discussion.

 

[ThaShiveGeek]

Never thought about the similarities between the two. Makes sense though.

 

[Error404]

SF V is the most simplified , devoid of all skill requirement SF game to date. It is literally built from the ground up to apeal to people who don't understand fighting games. Anybody can pick up this game and play. That's not necessarily a bad thing , I just wish they had kept harded links and more complicated mechanics . I feel that without them the highest level of the game will become boring to watch rather quickly.

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

Interesting comparison.
i think NRS players, or anyone for that matter will be able to pick up SFV pretty easily. Now if they will have success, that is a different story.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Depends on if you mean 'easy to transition' in order to just play the game on some basic level, or if you mean 'easy to fight against other players'.

Because just like MKX, SFV now has the weight of a highly-focused community around it, where many players have honed their SF skills over the last several years; so it won't be easy for someone who hasn't been part of that to keep up with those who have.

Just like it'd be hard from someone who hadn't played MK9, or more importantly Injustice, to jump into MKX as their first NRS game and feel comfortable. You can see that most of the players doing well in MKX, came in with momentum either built up from Injustice or the combination of MK9 and Injustice.

 

[SuppaSapien3]

SF V is the most simplified , devoid of all skill requirement SF game to date. It is literally built from the ground up to apeal to people who don't understand fighting games. Anybody can pick up this game and play. That's not necessarily a bad thing , I just wish they had kept harded links and more complicated mechanics . I feel that without them the highest level of the game will become boring to watch rather quickly.

It's funny because I hear alot of people say this, but the thing is that mechanics is almost never the thing that makes a fighting game hype, or the best to watch. OG Street Fighter 2 had some of the simplest playing style to it, but yet was/and is still played by a fairly large fanbase today(mostly japan). In fact games like League of Legends and DOTA has some of the most easy to use mechanics, but yet is viewed by millions around the world, and makes some of the most money, far outdoing fighting games. And if this statement was true Virtual Fighter should have been one of the most popular games of all time, because you had to master your character before you even started to be at a level to call yourself a scrub, and yet you never ever hear anything about it.

 

[Sultani]

SF V is the most simplified , devoid of all skill requirement SF game to date. It is literally built from the ground up to apeal to people who don't understand fighting games. Anybody can pick up this game and play. That's not necessarily a bad thing , I just wish they had kept harded links and more complicated mechanics . I feel that without them the highest level of the game will become boring to watch rather quickly.

The only thing that's all that different is there's not as many execution heavy links. That doesn't mean there's none, and the execution (which becomes muscle memory anyway) was never the deciding factor in high level street fighter play.

Street fighter has ALWAYS been a game about fundamental footsies and space control. SFV is still absolutely that.

So they removed the ability to mash c.lp all the time always and turned FADC into X-factor. So what?

Combo execution isn't the difinitive criteria for understanding fighting games. That has never been true in a capcom fighter.

Anyone can learn the execution in SFV easier than they can in AE / Ultra. Learn that execution and nothing else. then go play against any high level player. You'll lose 500 - 0 from getting backed into the corner and eating normals.

 

[buyacushun]

SFV will be the easiest for anyone to hop in to a SF game since they boiled it down to basics. Some people feel they boiled it down in too many areas (Some characters feel too simple or don't have enough flash, the input buffer for links, ETC). But it will most likely still be a great fighter to play. With the removal of most of the Hard Knock Downs, only using 1 set of normals, the increased risk of SRK punishes, this game is looking to really separate players by fundamentals. Seems to be a bigger focus on spacing, baiting and punishing. But I wouldn't expect anyone to come in and just be able to compete with the people who have been playing SF before them, even if they started with 4. But I would suggest getting it close to release unless you don't mind playing catchup with Match Up knowledge and tactics that will be created.

 

[Vithar]

The only thing that's all that different is there's not as many execution heavy links. That doesn't mean there's none, and the execution (which becomes muscle memory anyway) was never the deciding factor in high level street fighter play.

Street fighter has ALWAYS been a game about fundamental footsies and space control. SFV is still absolutely that.

So they removed the ability to mash c.lp all the time always and turned FADC into X-factor. So what?

Combo execution isn't the difinitive criteria for understanding fighting games. That has never been true in a capcom fighter.

Anyone can learn the execution in SFV easier than they can in AE / Ultra. Learn that execution and nothing else. then go play against any high level player. You'll lose 500 - 0 from getting backed into the corner and eating normals.

X-Factor in SF? Seems like you don't know wtf are you talking about.

 

[Sultani]

Depends on if you mean 'easy to transition' in order to just play the game on some basic level, or if you mean 'easy to fight against other players'.

Because just like MKX, SFV now has the weight of a highly-focused community around it, where many players have honed their SF skills over the last several years; so it won't be easy for someone who hasn't been part of that to keep up with those who have.

Just like it'd be hard from someone who hadn't played MK9, or more importantly Injustice, to jump into MKX as their first NRS game and feel comfortable. You can see that most of the players doing well in MKX, came in with momentum either built up from Injustice or the combination of MK9 and Injustice.

I played the F out of MK9. At one point I was pretty good at it. I skipped injustice almost completely, and I suck at MKX. Transitioning from injustice to MKX is easier than transitioning from MK9 to MKX, but yeah, anyway, transitioning from an NRS title to a capcom title is never going to be easy. You'll get told that you don't have any fundamentals, when in fact what it means is that you have NRS fundamentals, which are different from capcom fundamentals.

It's probably easier to unlearn and transition from nothing into SFV than it would be to transition from any NRS title to a capcom game, unless you're capable of unlearning everything you know about what works in injustice.

 

[Sultani]

X-Factor in SF? Seems like you don't know wtf are you talking about.

You missed the comparison. I meant that instead of having FADC, you have V trigger cancels which are essentially the same thing as X-Factor cancels.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[FL Rushdown]

SF V is the most simplified , devoid of all skill requirement SF game to date. It is literally built from the ground up to apeal to people who don't understand fighting games. Anybody can pick up this game and play. That's not necessarily a bad thing , I just wish they had kept harded links and more complicated mechanics . I feel that without them the highest level of the game will become boring to watch rather quickly.

I bet you started playing SF with 4.

 

[Solid]

I think NRS players will do just fine. If you play multiple fighting games you will do even better. SFV to me is all about how you deal with pressure, making informed decisions (you have to commit to your decisions) and patient play. Almost the same way I play Sub-Zero and Kano. Walking people down, stepping into D4 range, confirming a hit and going in. The ultimate goal is to put them in the corner and then keeping them there. All the while being ready to anti air (which will be easier IMO in SFV) at all times.

 

[Error404]

I bet you started playing SF with 4.

I started playing SF with 3S

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

SF V is the most simplified , devoid of all skill requirement SF game to date. It is literally built from the ground up to apeal to people who don't understand fighting games. Anybody can pick up this game and play. That's not necessarily a bad thing , I just wish they had kept harded links and more complicated mechanics . I feel that without them the highest level of the game will become boring to watch rather quickly.

Hard links and hard execution does not equal a harder game, yeah that is one aspect of a game that makes it difficult but there is still mindgames, frame traps, baiting, neutral game in general, learning what can and can't be punished, reading your opponent etc. There is more to fighting games than just fancy or hard to perform combos, much much more.

 

[Error404]

Hard links and hard execution does not equal a harder game, yeah that is one aspect of a game that makes it difficult but there is still mindgames, frame traps, baiting, neutral game in general, learning what can and can't be punished, reading your opponent etc. There is more to fighting games than just fancy or hard to perform combos, much much more.

Yeah there is, that's why I don't agree with it. Removing execution , far normals, harder to use mechanics , etc. because of players who will still give up when they get their ass beat for a couple of days? It's a pointless step back.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Yeah there is, that's why I don't agree with it. Removing execution , far normals, harder to use mechanics , etc. because of players who will still give up when they get their ass beat for a couple of days? It's a pointless step back.

It is very pointless, however it could have the same effect as Smash, it could have very hard necessary tech, but only at the highest of levels, anything below it is casual, since we have not realistically had that much time with the game. Anything is possible, there is still plenty of tech to be found, and I imagine combos that are really fucking hard. However. At the same time there might now be, we will have to wait and see how the game develops, and if there is not enough to keep players interested, there is always still sf4 tournaments. Since sf4 send like the kind of game that will never die with its hardcore fanbase, kinda like melee.

 

[FL Rushdown]

The combos and links are basically one frame longer, we're going from 2 framers to 3 framers It's not that big of a deal. Most people are forgetting that one frame links in sf4 weren't really one frame links. Besides SF has never been about big combos and difficult execution, it's always been about high level fundamentals and reads(the only real exception being 4).

 

[Sultani]

Yeah there is, that's why I don't agree with it. Removing execution , far normals, harder to use mechanics , etc. because of players who will still give up when they get their ass beat for a couple of days? It's a pointless step back.

In street fighter, people that get their ass beat don't get their ass beat because of combo execution. That's seriously like one of the least important things in street fighter games.

 

[Tony at Home]

Yeah there is, that's why I don't agree with it. Removing execution , far normals, harder to use mechanics , etc. because of players who will still give up when they get their ass beat for a couple of days? It's a pointless step back.

So, for experienced players nothing changes because they had the execution down anyway.

And for inexperienced players they get to have more fun with the game. So what if they quit eventually? Let them have fun with their time in the game.

Also I've played fighting games all my life. I have played Street Fighter since 2008. I still don't physically have the ability to pull off one frame links consistently, or even plink them consistently.

Practice has nothing to do with it for some people- we just don't have the ability to remember timing to that extent. Maybe I took one too many knocks to the head in Football and Rugby, but to me its literally a giant brick wall that says "you can't do this".

So the new system opens up the game for me. How is that bad?

 

[Error404]

In street fighter, people that get their ass beat don't get their ass beat because of combo execution. That's seriously like one of the least important things in street fighter games.

Yeah no shit that's what I'm saying. That's why it doesn't make sense to remove depth from the game to ease people who loose because of basic stuff.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

SFV has footsies.















/Flameshield

 

[Skkra]

SFV should end up being a good game no matter what other game you're coming from. Less emphasis on execution and greater emphasis on fundamentals (spacing, reading your opponent, timing) is going to mean that the game will ultimately reward the better player, not the player with better 1 frame links. It should also open up the game a bit more to people who have a solid intrinsic understanding of fundamentals, but might not have the greatest execution.

No matter what your favorite fighting game, if you enjoy fighting games in general, this seems like a good time. Of course, this is just going by the beta, but I'm encouraged by what I've played so far.

 

[Sultani]

Yeah no shit that's what I'm saying. That's why it doesn't make sense to remove depth from the game to ease people who loose because of basic stuff.

People lose to basic stuff.... They'll still lose to basic stuff.... Different timing isn't removal of timing. It's just different. If it's easier for a new player to do a simple combo, but they'll still lose to fundamentals 100% of the time anyway, how does that ease anything?

It seems like what you're saying is that it shouldn't be easier for a person to pull off a combo because that just makes it easier for bad players to do well. I'm trying to tell you that this is not true, nor do I believe the one frame of extra leniency is inherently a removal of depth.

Plinking essentially made 1 frame links not really one frame links anyway. SFV doesn't have plinking (or so I've been told). If that's true, then there's not really any change to how strict execution is.

Combo execution being one frame easier isn't a removal of depth, nor is it even important in terms of determining who wins matches. Taking out FADC and putting in V trigger, well, that's one thing that makes this game feel more basic than 4.

In 4, c.lp c.lp c.mp xx special. That's a pretty standard combo that you could do with 90% of the cast or more. Getting that execution down isn't evidence of more depth.

In AE / Ultra I played Rufus. I could do his 1 frame BnB every single time. I went 0-2 at every single local tournament we ever had. If that 1 frame link were two frames, would that mean it's easier at all once the execution timing is learned? no. Is that one extra frame a removal of depth? No. Does the "easier" execution mean that I'm a bad player that can now compete because the combo execution is easier? No... I could execute the ombo fine before anywa. Does that one extra frame make any difference? No.

There are things about this game that make it feel more basic. Combo execution and timing isn't one of them. With plinking being gone, it only makes sense to have links get an extra frame. Complaining about this is ridiculous.

 

[@MylesWright_]

Assuming your character wasn't good, people transitioning from Injustice should be the best at any fighting game. Normal fighting games let you move, actually give you normals, don't have unblockables on the stages only your opponent can throw for free damage, and don't make you deal with an assortment of wake-ups varying in invincibility when YOU knockdown your opponent down in the first place