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Discussion Which MKX Character has The Steepest Learning Curve?

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
I think Kotal is a kontender. He's got plenty of good buttons and easy damage for the low level player to still do decently well. But if you want to take him to a competitive environment you really need to be on point, and doing that can be hard when you have very few mix ups or lots of gaps. On paper Kotal never seems to be that much better than the cast, but the skill ceiling on the character is just so high some match ups feel a lot worse than they are.

Lackey might just be worse, not having any kind of range outside of d1 means any whiffs are deadly, and getting stuck fullscreen is the fastest way to lose. the mix ups are fuzzyable or require commitment to a special, most of which are punishable. Timing the armour and invincibility on bf3 is hard, but once you get it down you feel like a god, literally ignoring projectiles for a punish that leads into a Torrvex set up, or armouring through a gap for no meter.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
But OP is talking about learning curve, not necessarily difficult. Yes run cancels that jail consistently is a technical challenge, but once you've got it down where does the curve go?
He also doesn't have a traditional 50/50 so a new player would not only need to master the cancels, but be more creative in their offense. I'm not downplaying cage, but to take advantage of his "S tier-ness" people will have to put in much more time.
 

9_Lives

Noob
Pretty much everyone with run cancels. Gotta remember which strings link into combos, which strings jail on block, how plus you are at all times, which options you and your opponent have at those things. It's like memorizing two sets of frame data instead of just one, one of which is provided, and the other you must memorize from either this site or your own testing, neither of which are always perfect sources of information. As far as it all goes, everyone else is easy to learn. Just look up some combos, read a guide if there is one to see which buttons you have to press, watch footage of someone better than you, test it on your friends and online scrubs etc. I suppose when you think about it, no one's exactly all that hard to learn. Sometimes execution is a pain though.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Yeah you'd think they could get it by now:DOGE

But seriously if we are talking about which character is hardest to use at their absolute peak potential I think A-List is a good contender.
I get what you're saying and maybe because it has been the good part of 10 months of experience that is blinding me... I really don't think A-List is hard to learn. Do the cancels, practice the jails, apply staggers and hey presto. You're playing A-list. You'll get used to using the cancels once you play a long set with a training partner.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I see your point @Dankster Morgan. Personally tho I don't see how enforcing your opponent to respect d4 to open them up for OH starter is that creative.
I get what you're saying and maybe because it has been the good part of 10 months of experience that is blinding me... I really don't think A-List is hard to learn. Do the cancels, practice the jails, apply staggers and hey presto. You're playing A-list. You'll get used to using the cancels once you play a long set with a training partner.
I mean more creative than say Bojutsu KJ. Maybe I misunderstood the thread, but I kind of thought it was geared towards a new player. I don't have access to a very good player at all times so I see your guys's points. I don't think any character is super hard to learn. Another contender could be CSZ: very hard to use in the neutral, high execution bnbs that will be tougher for inexperienced players, low damage so you straight up need to hit them more, no launching armor. Just kind of the bane of a new players existence.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
I think Kotal is a kontender. He's got plenty of good buttons and easy damage for the low level player to still do decently well. But if you want to take him to a competitive environment you really need to be on point, and doing that can be hard when you have very few mix ups or lots of gaps. On paper Kotal never seems to be that much better than the cast, but the skill ceiling on the character is just so high some match ups feel a lot worse than they are.

Lackey might just be worse, not having any kind of range outside of d1 means any whiffs are deadly, and getting stuck fullscreen is the fastest way to lose. the mix ups are fuzzyable or require commitment to a special, most of which are punishable. Timing the armour and invincibility on bf3 is hard, but once you get it down you feel like a god, literally ignoring projectiles for a punish that leads into a Torrvex set up, or armouring through a gap for no meter.
I doubt I'm alone on this, but even if I am, I don't feel Kotal fits the bill at all. I personally don't feel he has a steep learning curve in the slightest. He's got a very basic (although very good) set of tools to learn and there aren't too many to have to worry about, so it's less to have to remember during the process of learning.

I'd say his "skill ceiling" is determined by the person who is using him. Knowledge of the character, his MUs, etc all come into play here. I'd say his learning curve is on the same level as Doomsday's from Injustice. He's easy to pick up and do well with if you're willing to learn his MUs.

Also, thanks to his b1 (and I think his d4?), he gets "free footsies" because of how good they are.

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong, so don't take it that way. I just disagree with your opinion.
 

Gengar

Hypnosis > Dreameater (its a reset)
Dualist or master of storms. Its not immediately at first glance obvious how the set ups work, and the variance in what can be done with set ups is all over the place.
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
Its clearly Ferra Torr if we are going off playstyle and not execution since everyone just bitches about how easy they made their PnG cancels and how broke Ruthless is yet no top players or bandwagon scrubs play them.

Hmmm wonder why.. maybe its cus they dont have a flowchart you can look up on youtube like the other cancel characters that are "so hard to play"
 

Solignac

Noob
In my opinion, Grandmaster Scrub Zero. He's pretty easy to pick up and the clone kills a lot of your opponent's options, but getting over the threshold of being ok to being good is difficult. You have to learn to not rely on your clone all the time while you're in neutral.

When you put your opponent in the corner, you have to really get used to where you place your clone as the shatters will give your opponent a different height depending on the distance the clone is from them so you gotta adjust your combo accordingly. In addition, in the corner, the spacing of the clone dictates what you can combo into, like if you put the clone right next to your opponent, you can't combo b33 shatter, you'd probably want to opt for a d3 or a grab.

I also find the weirder conversions in the corner into a clone freeze difficult to get down in the moment. Like if you clip your opponent with an unexpected s1 or if you're carrying to the corner and don't know if you'll make it all the way there to freeze. The female hitboxes thing is also something that you need to play around or get used to.

TLDR the clone doesn't work properly or something
 

Airvidal

"You play weird" It's called being unorthodox ;)
I get what you're saying and maybe because it has been the good part of 10 months of experience that is blinding me... I really don't think A-List is hard to learn. Do the cancels, practice the jails, apply staggers and hey presto. You're playing A-list. You'll get used to using the cancels once you play a long set with a training partner.
You might wanna take into consideration that this question might have been based on a completely new player. I know I can learn JC easy, but how easy would it be for a new comer?
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
He also doesn't have a traditional 50/50 so a new player would not only need to master the cancels, but be more creative in their offense. I'm not downplaying cage, but to take advantage of his "S tier-ness" people will have to put in much more time.
Completely agree, to play Cage at his peak your spacing has to be on point, he's not only one of the strongest pressure characters, he's one of the strongest space control characters too imo. If your F3 spacing isn't on point you can't really take advantage of this and will miss out on tons of damage.

Maybe not the highest skill ceiling in the game, but definitely up there.