Strategy Was it good for you? - Mileena general discussion

[PimpUigi]

Yeah, Skarlet is totally whacked out with that safe teleport.
I just start into 234 or 42 pressure when I block it, knowing that she's safe. It's either that or grab, and I'd rather deal chip and gain meter than only do 12% damage.

When Scorpion whiffs a spear, even at full screen, Mileena can punish with a full jump in punch combo.

Reptile's dash can only be punished with the uppercut/risky roll/throw. Having such slow normals makes her punishment really hard to dish out.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Thanks for the input so far. I don't have the DLC except skarlet so if you guys could test stuff for Kenshi, Rain, and Freddy, that'd be a big help

I know about Kenshi's Rising Karma being roll punishable and Rain's Lightning being punishable. but any other moves, normals, X-rays, even if they are rarely used moves... anything at all would be great.

 

[1man3letters]

So ok Mileena players. I think something that could be of use that hasn't been formally organized yet, is a thread for Mileena Punishment options.

We'd make a list of characters, their unsafe moves, and how to best punish them with Mileena. I'm starting one as we speak, but any and all help/input would be appreciated. Just trying to get all of us on one accord here, so that people looking to actually step their game up with Mil can have this info at the ready.

yes zero, i like the sound off this and will help where can

 

[1man3letters]

Reptile's dash can only be punished with the uppercut/risky roll/throw. Having such slow normals makes her punishment really hard to dish out.

yea this is the only think i hate bout the vs reptile is punishing that dash,the different "pushbacks" on dash can get annoying also

 

[fr stack]

yea this is the only think i hate bout the vs reptile is punishing that dash,the different "pushbacks" on dash can get annoying also

reptile eyy :spam: :top:

 

[ZeroEffect]

With Reptile I get roll about 50% of the time to punish dash.. but recently I've just started doing D3/D4 instead since it'll hit more often and give me frames to work with. She can really start to pressure reptile since telekick is safe to him.

 

[Zangrief]

(edit) I don't want to contribute to any friction here.

 

[Sultani]

Ugh... started testing Skarlet punishes, and it turns out her teleport is completely safe to Roll depending on which stance Mileena's in. And her normals are so god-awfully slow she has NOTHING to punish with that's faster than Roll... (which of course gets you killed if it's blocked).

I always thought roll should be faster by a couple frames if they wanted her to have normals slower than 13 frames... but no.

so "salty".

That's the thing that most people who complain about mileena fail to realize. But when you try to play her, you quickly realize that her normals are absurdly slow and almost everything she does can be punished badly. A blocked roll gives you enough time to stand up, go get a beer, come back, read a guide, figure out which way you want to punish her, then do it.

Anyway..

KL - blocked or wiffed spin, Roll, U4, B14, Dash 112 neckbite.

Raiden - if you time it right, you can catch his teleport with the same punish because of the increased recovery frames. To help you time this better, instead of using D4 on him, input it as FD4. If he teleports, your input becomes BD4 and oops lol you punished him with a combo for teleporting. What sucks is that if you input it within the first (i think its 13 - 17 frames of the full teleport animation, you won't roll.

Any instant air spam - roll, u4, b14, dash 112, neckbite. or, telekick, air sai, roll, b14, dash 112 neckbite. These work well for kitana if she's too close to spam ias.

Reptile - not sure if blocked elbow dash is punihable by roll, so I usually just throw him.

Sub zero - blocked slide - U4, U4, B14, Dash 112, roll, B14, neckbite.

Nightwolf - D4

Kitana - punish iaf with either of the two above, or if you're getting pressured with F4 1 / F4 DF2, you can let go of block and duck the df2 which makes her wiff, punishable by pretty much anything. I use b3 Ex roll or 42 telekick air sai, roll, b14 neckbite. This one sucks though because F41 will hit you if you duck or let go of block. basically keep her away bcause you can actually out range her and punish her for trying to do it back. 42 is better because kitana's D1 is stupid.

Shang - He has shit for wakeups. try to stay in his face and use your mixups.

kabal - punish iaf and blocked nomad dash with rolling.

Pretty much.. um, yea, her normals are slow, but you are capable of following up any hit with a combo.

 

[1man3letters]

ok sorry if this but asked before but this crossed my mind the other day,the answer is prob no but does anyone know if mileena ex tele performs in any way different when opp is back is against corner and shes teles from same direction twice?

 

[Sultani]

ok sorry if this but asked before but this crossed my mind the other day,the answer is prob no but does anyone know if mileena ex tele performs in any way different when opp is back is against corner and shes teles from same direction twice?

Really the only difference is obviously your inputs for cancelling your landing with an air sai. Just pay attention to where she comes out the 2nd time.. pretty easy.

One of the things I've noticed with EX teleport midscreen though....

Landed regular TK gives a frame advantage that we're aware of, and if you use it without cancelling with an air sai, the frame advantage allows you to dash close enough with the frame advantage to do either a U4 or a B3 roll (or Ex Roll) combo. I'm not sure if this is because of online lag, but landed Ex TK midscreen seems to push the opponent back a little further so that when you use the frame advantage to dash forward, you're still not right up next to them and getting off the B3 Ex Roll is escapable.

Maybe one of the differences is that in the corner, you can still do that.

I'm just speculating though..

 

[ZeroEffect]

One of the things I've noticed with EX teleport midscreen though....

Landed regular TK gives a frame advantage that we're aware of, and if you use it without cancelling with an air sai, the frame advantage allows you to dash close enough with the frame advantage to do either a U4 or a B3 roll (or Ex Roll) combo. I'm not sure if this is because of online lag, but landed Ex TK midscreen seems to push the opponent back a little further so that when you use the frame advantage to dash forward, you're still not right up next to them and getting off the B3 Ex Roll is escapable.

Yeah EX Telekick doesn't give as much advantage on hit as regular does. It's hardly anything, but you can still D4 or something if they try to attack with a non-armored move.

 

[1man3letters]

yea true sultani about the b3 roll being different to get out of in corner,nice point

was askin original question in more of the way was there a odd chance it came out differently because it going the same direction instead of switching sides? ie blockstun or something strange

like we all know in mk9 weird ass stuff can happen in the corner

 

[ZeroEffect]

So I've come to the conclusion that fighting Kung Lao with Mileena online is completely impossible. Lowhat on block + spin = frame trap... lol. GG.

 

[ZeroEffect]

you know ive always thought the EXACT same shit, WHY is it not a damn low! IF this was made to a low imo it would make up for lack of dmging kombos and punishable telekicks!

This question has been answered several times before. There should already be a thread on "why doesn't ball roll hit low". Looking at that should hopefully give you your answer.

 

[M2Dave]

you know ive always thought the EXACT same shit, WHY is it not a damn low! IF this was made to a low imo it would make up for lack of dmging kombos and punishable telekicks!

Roll is not a low attack because she has an overhead that is at least +6 on block.

And what do you mean by "punishable telekicks"? Of course they should be punishable.

Mileena is a very good character. I am not sure why this forum is always complaining. NRS is never going to give the character an armor move along with safe telekicks and more damaging combos if that is what you are asking for.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Mileena is a very good character. I am not sure why this forum is always complaining. NRS is never going to give the character an armor move along with safe telekicks and more damaging combos if that is what you are asking for.

Nope, there's no more patching to be done with this game. Even if there was, there are far more issues to address than any buffs to Mileena.

In my opinion, what it comes down to is, people want to be able to win with the character they like to play. If for whatever reason this proves difficult through said character's shortcomings, isn't it only natural to become frustrated?

 

[M2Dave]

Nope, there's no more patching to be done with this game. Even if there was, there are far more issues to address than any buffs to Mileena.

In my opinion, what it comes down to is, people want to be able to win with the character they like to play. If for whatever reason this proves difficult through said character's shortcomings, isn't it only natural to become frustrated?

That depends. If the Sheeva players are complaining, I'll give them a pass. If the Mileena players are complaining, I say hit the lab. I've used Mileena vs competent players off-line, and I think she's one of the better characters in this game. The only rational "buff" argument that can be made for Mileena is the inclusion of an armor move because the lack thereof hurts her in some match ups. But then again, how many characters have the low hitbox she has and a long-ranged d+4? My point is, every complaint is not justified, especially because she has some match ups that are 7:3 in her favor.

 

[Velvet Sack]

The reason Mileena's roll isn't a low is that it would constantly put her opponents in unfair blocking situations. For example, think about the options she can link from b3:

b3, b4 (low, low)
b3, roll (low, high)
b3, en roll (low, mid)

As it is, the correct way to block a b3 setup is to block low, then immediately high. This takes care of the roll and en roll options, both of which lead to ~30% combos. The option that connects with this blocking pattern, b4, does 6% damage. I'll take that over the alternative (en roll combo) every time.

Now, if roll hit low, what happens? There is no correct way to block. It's purely a 50/50 guess between low and overhead, and every wrong guess means 30% or two bars of meter down the drain. This, coupled with the fact that Mileena has so many setups that put her right next to a grounded opponent, would be absolute bullshit. If you wanted ball to hit low, you'd need to redesign the entire character--and take away most of her legitimately good mind games in the process.

It's damn easy to get into the bad habit of abusing telekicks and rolls, especially online where it's harder to defend against/punish these moves. I hate to say it, but I can fall into this pattern pretty badly if I'm nervous or tired or otherwise having a hard time giving the game my full concentration. To help avoid that, make sure you're comfortable with constant, fluid movement (dash-blocking) so that you're not over-relying on those moves to control space.

As for exactly how good Mileena is, think of it like this: her worst matchups are 4-6, which is totally manageable. A Mileena player who uses the character to her full potential does not need a counter-select for any matchup, and in this game, that's huge. That's a claim that can't be made for some really great characters. She'll be fine.

 

[ZeroEffect]

That depends. If the Sheeva players are complaining, I'll give them a pass. If the Mileena players are complaining, I say hit the lab. I've used Mileena vs competent players off-line, and I think she's one of the better characters in this game. The only rational "buff" argument that can be made for Mileena is the inclusion of an armor move because the lack thereof hurts her in some match ups. But then again, how many characters have the low hitbox she has and a long-ranged d+4? My point is, every complaint is not justified, especially because she has some match ups that are 7:3 in her favor.

I'm just speaking in general. I'm sure every character at some point in time has had complaints about them, regardless of tier placement. In my case specifically, everything I learn from "the lab", is stuff I first had to deal with by experience or heard about on stream. When I fought your Freddy for example; I never knew what he was really capable of, or what the matchup was like beforehand. but we played, I figured some things out, we talked, and I eventually saw your point about her having advantage.

Sure she has stupid matchups in her favor in Sheeva and maybe Reptile, but I just felt like people crowned her queen too soon, that's all.

 

[PimpUigi]

I don't think Mileena needs a buff.
I think she beats Freddy.
There's still no way Mileena is top tier material.

 

[Death]

Mileena ball roll a low. Hmm id like that but to Mileenas EX cannot be an overhead. But nah Mileena is a top 10 character probably sitting around 5-6th spot IMO. The only buff i can ever see her getting is making her 2nd hit on ex tele an overhead. But other than shes fine and still tournament viable.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Mileena ball roll a low. Hmm id like that but to Mileenas EX cannot be an overhead. But nah Mileena is a top 10 character probably sitting around 5-6th spot IMO. The only buff i can ever see her getting is making her 2nd hit on ex tele an overhead. But other than shes fine and still tournament viable.

Death - I'm actually curious as to who you have under her in the top 10.
m2dave - the same goes to you.

We can take that part of the discussion to PMs if y'all want, but it's up to you guys.

Anyway, I know characters need weaknesses. No one wants a perfect character with no flaws. Some are just harder to exploit than others, and some have better risk/reward options at their disposal.

 

[PimpUigi]

The only buff i can ever see her getting is making her 2nd hit on ex tele an overhead.

IMHO then she'd certainly be top tier.
As it is now, the top tier has to be something like

Jax/Cyrax/Sonya/Kabal/Kitana/Smoke
If we add Mileena, that's seven characters in top tier...so I would only put her in upper tier (which is lower than top, but higher than high tier).

 

[Jer]

Mileena doesn't need any chances, yes a move with armor would be nice but we don't really need it

 

[Death]

@ Zero, Yeah i have to change my Mileena punishment guide around. I posted that in theory but at Swifttomhanks house that weekend i tested most of it and some stuff in what i posted was safe because of pushback reasons etc...

IMO i think the top tier has 4 characters and they are Kabal, Kitana, Jax and Sonya in no particular order.

Mileena, Kung Lao, Raiden, Smoke, Kenshi, Freddy, Cyrax and Reptile would be in the 2nd highest tier. IMO i think those 12 characters are the top 12 characters in the game.

Ill post the bottom 10 characters. I know off topic but I'd like to hear what people think of the 10 worst characters in the game IMO. In no order i think the 10 worst is Jade, Skarlet, Sheeva, Stryker, Baraka, Quan Chi, Nightwolf, Kano, Cyber Sub-Zero, Rain


And yes an armored move or an overhead on mileenas ex tele would be nice but shes still almost a top 5 character so i think shes fine obviously.