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Question Was Cyber Sub Zero really as bad as everyone said?

Was CSZ Bad or just Unexplored?

  • Bad

    Votes: 37 36.6%
  • Unexplored

    Votes: 64 63.4%

  • Total voters
    101

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
Back when MK9 was at its prime I remember constantly debating with people about the CSZ matchup, anytime I got in to a debate with people all I would ever get is theory talk. If it wasn't theory talk then I would get responses like "my cousin played CSZ for a month and couldn't touch my quan chi" or "I can punish dive kick with x y and z" as a reason as to why CSZ was bad. These answers were the product of people either never having fought a high level CSZ or never having played against CSZ at all.

Now I consider myself a high level CSZ. I never had any tournament placing because of the fact that I didn't take the game seriously. I never have nor do I take injustice seriously. All I ever did was play at VSM with arguably some of the best character representatives in the US and travel to tournaments because I love the scene. I've had my chance to play long sets with players from many regions such as the CD brothers, Reo, Dizzy (who seems to know alot about CSZ), 16 bit, tyrant, Zaf, Gross, and pretty much most of the players who attended the MLG tournaments. Some matchups I would simply get outplayed, others my opponents would adapt and still have trouble winning due to my characters tools that MUST be respected.

There weren't many CSZ representatives, and most of the ones left dropped the character when they had trouble learning certain match ups. At the end of the games life span I went back to CSZ and had a great amount of success in long sets and money matches with the character.

I put alot of work into this character and explored far more than most have with him, enough to know that most people simply "just dont know". I know its super late for this kind of thing but when i hear people get blown up for saying their character loses to CSZ it's unsettling example Waffles saying CSZ gives Smoke a hard time, which he does.

Was CSZ really bad or just unexplored?

For the lulz here is my legit Matchup chart.

Baraka 5-5
Cyrax 5-5
Ermac 5-5
Freddy Krueger 5-5
Jade 7-3
Jax 4-6
Johnny Cage 4-6 possible 5-5
Kabal 4-6
Kano 6-4
Kenshi 3-7
Kitana 4-6
Kung Lao 5-5
Liu Kang 5-5
Mileena 5-5
Nightwolf 6-4
Noob Saibot 6-4
Quan Chi 7-3
Raiden 6-4
Rain 5-5
Reptile 6-4
Scorpion 5-5
Sektor 6-4
Shang Tsung 5-5
Sheeva 8-2
Sindel 6-4
Skarlet 5-5
Smoke 6-4
Sonya 4-6
Stryker 5-5
Sub-Zero 4-6
 
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PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
To this day, I don't think he was garbage.

Playing/watching Usedforglues Cyber Sub was one of the most enjoyable things about playing MK9 in Europe, IMO. I just wish he used the character more.
 

GGA Max

Well-Known Member
I once had this theory that his normals were kind of ass because he could be used defensively
  • parry was a strong option to defend against highs
  • dive kick was a strong option to crush lows
But who knows, has it ever happened that a character was secretly good for 3 years and no one knew?
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
T.Hawk was bottom 3 for damn near 15 years and then jumped to top 5 discussion as soon as death loop was discovered.

People think Hawk is top 5? Unless u mean ST.

I was gonna mention Gen, but I dont think that counts anymore because of all the buffs he's gotten and will continue to get.
 
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Art

Grave_Intent
T.Hawk was bottom 3 for damn near 15 years and then jumped to top 5 discussion as soon as death loop was discovered.
Your full of crap! I main T.Hawk and he's still bottom tier, until Ultra comes out when he will actually be a good character.

And for the record I tried out CsZ and he was OK at best. His normals are pretty slow. He gets poked out of allot of his strings. He has good set-ups but that's about it.
 

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
He loses to Ermac IMO. You cannot divekick at all unless you see a projectile. No catching pokes, no closing distance.
i played this matchup heavily with Zaf and a few others, we went over option after option and their damage out puts are equally good, this match relies heavily on sustaining a life lead for both characters.