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General/Other - Summoner VS Quan Chi bat Vortex training

Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Noob
If you noticed, after a trance there is a point in time where the opponent can't move but is no longer in hitstun but blockstun. We know you have enough time to connect a combo after bat summon, so theoretically(if you have enough frames to land a 14 frame overhead, which i believe you can combo into f2 so there should be enough time) your opponent shouldn't be able to even attempt to armor or backdash. You did a much better job illustrating it then myself [http://testyourmight.com/threads/quan-chi-possible-unblock-able-loop-and-stuff.50194/] (and i was not even the first to find it), and i don't know why this wasn't addressed or hasn't been. It's probably one of if not the most broken thing in the games lifespan. You don't even need meter to do it. If timed properly it can be done whether they hit 1 frame apart (unless the game has a wider gap for the failsafe), no human alive can block that. I don't know why the character was given a cancellable overhead and the ability to do a low independent of it. I don't understand how that's remotely fair, nor even interesting or why it's still around.
 
WakeUp DP

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
^ You stole my "first" spot :mad:

Can you pushblock it? If only BBs were a bar instead of 2 :(
 
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RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
What if you were to counter pick with a character like Goro or Ferra Torr who can use their multiple hits of armor in mb specials? From what I understand, they have up to 4 hits of armor in some of their attacks, you'd blow right through this (I'm aware these characters may not be viable for other reasons). More interestingly, Cassie Cage has NO hurt box on her mb nut cracker (there's no armor, there's no speed issue, she simply has no hurt box), counter pick with her. Do any other characters that have faster specials beat this? What's start up on throw even, where maybe the bat hits and breaks the throw, but just to get back to neutral.

I'll lab this myself someday, these are just things I'd be curious about.
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Tom do you know if unbreakables parry could help in that situation? Is there enough time after the bat summon to get out a parry?
 
ABACABB

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
You can always break .. , btw summoner have NO WAKEUPS and worst defense in game . You dont know how to get out of vortex and I dont know how to get out of the corner with him. Getting cornered with quan = match is over. No options for quan player.
 
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
The_Tile said:
Same goes for the vortex on paper, but in reality you know it's not that easy.
Click to expand...
Except no other character is going to be hitting quan with a looping 1 frame fuzzy setup (well predator has some bs but it's not like that lol) and quan also can delayed wake up, tech roll depending on the knockdown etc. It's a bad situation for quan, no denying that. But it's not "game over" and it in no way justifies this garbage that he has. I know this because I also play a character with garbage wake up so I also have to just block.
 
Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Noob
ABACABB said:
You can always break .. , btw summoner have NO WAKEUPS and worst defense in game . You dont know how to get out of vortex and I dont know how to get out of the corner with him. Getting cornered with quan = match is over. No options for quan player.
Click to expand...
False..

Just about EVERY top player gets up blocking/delayed wake up more then armor. Top players dont mash armor every time they are knocked down. Now, they do have the threat of it which Quan does not. However, if you having to block equals death for you then its equally death when they have to block Quan.. The difference is those characters dont have anything they can make to be nearly unblockable hence no random factor.
 
The_Tile

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Tom Brady said:
False..

Just about EVERY top player gets up blocking/delayed wake up more then armor. Top players dont mash armor every time they are knocked down. Now, they do have the threat of it which Quan does not. However, if you having to block equals death for you then its equally death when they have to block Quan.. The difference is those characters dont have anything they can make to be nearly unblockable hence no random factor.
Click to expand...
No random factor? With a cast full of unreactable 50/50s and ridiculously strong oki which usually loops on itself I disagree.

Also there are a handful of MU's where Quan get's legit block infinited. If this was nerfed he would need a slightly faster poke to stop himself getting killed on block. And as @HGTV Soapboxfan said your very own character, Predator, has setups very similar to this. If your only issue is with the hard to block able then maybe Pred's needs to go to.
 
The_Tile

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
HGTV Soapboxfan said:
Except no other character is going to be hitting quan with a looping 1 frame fuzzy setup (well predator has some bs but it's not like that lol) and quan also can delayed wake up, tech roll depending on the knockdown etc. It's a bad situation for quan, no denying that. But it's not "game over" and it in no way justifies this garbage that he has. I know this because I also play a character with garbage wake up so I also have to just block.
Click to expand...
Other having a decent armored attack isn't just bad on wakeup, it means he can't armor through strings, which a lot of them with gaps are plus on block, which makes it ridiculously difficult for Quan to get out of some pressure. Also your character has a full screen armored launcher, that is a HUGE deal.

Before I get too off topic though I just think the in game unblockable protection needs to be upped a few frames so you have a few more frames to block it. This would fix Quan, Predator and any other dirty future setups that are found.
 
Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Noob
The_Tile said:
No random factor? With a cast full of unreactable 50/50s and ridiculously strong oki which usually loops on itself I disagree.

Also there are a handful of MU's where Quan get's legit block infinited. If this was nerfed he would need a slightly faster poke to stop himself getting killed on block. And as @HGTV Soapboxfan said your very own character, Predator, has setups very similar to this. If your only issue is with the hard to block able then maybe Pred's needs to go to.
Click to expand...

1. SZ has no nearly infinite block pressure on Quan Chi
2. I'm not in disagreement that anything that is a pseudo unblockable should probably be looked it if there is no way to avoid it besides get lucky and block it.
3. I'm not calling for any Quan nerfs, just doing a video series as I attempt to lab in defense of it.
 
ABACABB

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
Oh and one more thing,,, If his vortex is so good and broken then why quan chi didnt win evo? and why everyone didnt play quan instead of boneshaper ? Its so easy to win , just hit someone once and vortex him to death ...
Only quan who placed top was ketchup and he used sorcerer
 
Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Noob
ABACABB said:
Oh and one more thing,,, If his vortex is so good and broken then why quan chi didnt win evo? and why everyone didnt play quan instead of boneshaper ? Its so easy to win , just hit someone once and vortex him to death ...
Only quan who placed top was ketchup and he used sorcerer
Click to expand...
Don't put words in my mouth. I in fact said he is not the best. I also did not say he was easy wins/unbeatable and also pointed out that Quan Chi has not won any majors including EVO. I didn't say it was game breaking or anything along those lines either. I just said it has a high random factor because you can know it coming and still not block it.

I'm simply posting my lab vids of it, nothing more.
 
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