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Understanding how to fight against NDCs

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
I seriously recommend just trying to poke out with d1 or d3 instead of doing any normals. I fucking play Sektor and I don't want to risk the time it takes to stand up (since it's retarded to stand block against Kabal) and then go for a standing 1.

I also don't want Kabal to see me standing or have any hint that I will try to do something big to get out of his strings. Either getting hit out on purpose, poking back after a blocked poke by Kabal or just knowing the strings you can and can not poke from are the best options imo.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Thats exactly what I'm getting at, it doesnt matter if he pokes you. By forcing him to poke you're fucking up alot of his rushdown.

Shang Liu and Cage are probably 3 of the best at preventing Kabal from doing back to back NDC strings, they can full combo a d1 on block, and definitely get a blockstring when they block D3s.

Kabal being + frames doesnt mean that he's at enough advantage to do shit to you.
What can a Shang do to prevent NDCs again? I am not being condescending, actually asking lol.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
You cant play footsies with Kabal when hes just machine gunning iAGB real low and buzzsaw.
thats the problem

Yea sure I wanted to go in but damn man, every footsie tool i have gets blown up by his options

Im using the wrong character
 

Somberness

Lights
I seriously recommend just trying to poke out with d1 or d3 instead of doing any normals. I fucking play Sektor and I don't want to risk the time it takes to stand up (since it's retarded to stand block against Kabal) and then go for a standing 1.

I also don't want Kabal to see me standing or have any hint that I will try to do something big to get out of his strings. Either getting hit out on purpose, poking back after a blocked poke by Kabal or just knowing the strings you can and can not poke from are the best options imo.
It doesn't take any extra time to use a standing attack from crouch.

The best escape from dash pressure are fast/armored specials as you can input them during recovery and they will still come out, no real timing involved. Or jumping could work, even if you get hit while in the air, they might not be able to capitalize on it. It's risky but it's better than most options for a lot of characters.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
It doesn't take any extra time to use a standing attack from crouch.

The best escape from dash pressure are fast/armored specials as you can input them during recovery and they will still come out, no real timing involved. Or jumping could work, even if you get hit while in the air, they might not be able to capitalize on it. It's risky but it's better than most options for a lot of characters.
Hmm, well perhaps it's just me then. I seem to get stuffed a lot when going for a standing 1 where poking has proven much more successful.
 

RampaginDragon

Loses to uppercuts
Now all we have to do is break his zoning game.

Do you guys think Raiden is a good "counter" to Kabal as his zoning is not much of a problem for Raiden, and he can tele out of string? I have been thinking of either Raiden or Reptile to counter Sonyas bas MU's. Kabal and Kenshi.

I am going to learn this stuff inside and out so hopefully Kabal dosnt body me anymore just for being Kabal.
 
I know I'm a noob, but from the scrub Kabals (compared to REO/Kevo) I've played online, I don't understand why does Kabal's saw push back on block/knock back on hit also, while being hit in the face with iAGBs, you try to go in but than everything's working against you.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Maybe later, I gotta go do some shit ina sec



Smoke is fine, his standing 2 is 9 frames and 214 is 0 on block while 21 can be confirmed into SB

F4 can be cancelled into overhead or blade, which is what the Kabal player should do. So you cant interupt the 50/50
but why does 2 hit when its 9 frames and kabal can always be at +2 against smoke
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
I thought this was common knowledge. The only problem I thought people were having is execution problems during tournament play?
 

Death

Noob
Try using Mileena vs Kabal. 12f ball roll thats -40 on block. D+1 which is -8 on hit. D+3 which is +2 on hit but even on hit her 14f launcher can still get blow up. Mileena fastest normal that launches is her 13f 1 and 14f 4 -___-. Whoever says Mileena is a good choice for Kabal is delusional.
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
i think thats the real point of this thread, whenever i see people complain about how OP kabal is they always mention the NDC's even though there are plenty of ways to beat them, alot of people seem to not realise how bad they can fuck kabal up for most o fhis NDC's.
I think the heart of the issue is that at any moment, at any spot on the screen (particularly up close) Kabal has a bagillion options available to him, all of which come out at a rapid fire continuous speed. You`re chasing him while he`s doing machine gun fire balls. From that scenario alone he can:
1. continue to spam fireballs
2. throw a ground saw
3. nomad dash you into a combo
4. ex dash through your approaching attack
5. ndc into your face cancelling into another special
6. ndc into your face with his block strings and ndc pressure
7. jump right at you
8. double ndc back into fireball spam

That`s just what can happen from CHASING him. Dealing with that can be stressful enough, that when he does get in, he has even more options to keep you guessing. He can barely be punished hard if you guess right and interrupt him. Only a few characters can really interrupt with big damage, and you can`t count on blocking a random Nomad Dash. Plus, every Kabal has their own variations of pressure, so coming up against one in a first to two hardly leaves people with a sufficient time to adapt to patterns unless the Kabal is lazy and too predictable.

We can talk frame data all day. Of course it`s extra helpful to know when he`s at advantage or not at advantage. But at the end of the day, his options win out. F4 NDC is -5 and then his pressure is "over". Yeah, right. You start getting hit by F4 saw or hookswords, or F4 NDC into EX Dash to blow up your poke... That opens up his ability to do F4 NDC or whatever he wants.

And even if you do get through it. Even if he fucks it up and does something at disadvantage and you blow him up for it. He already has a breaker. And he will get a brand new one in t-minus 5 seconds.

This madness needs to stop.
 
I'll delete this post if im wrong because it will just lead to more confusion, but F3,2 and B1,2 NDC being +2 means that his standing 2 and f4 come out in 7 frames thus making it just a guess whether he will or not beat your fastest launcher out.
Off like everything hes +1 and 0 or - then fair enough, but these strings make it really hard to just "mash" out of his pressure.

Am i right or are my calculations wrong, because i know for a fact that standing 2 after f3,2 NDC will beat out smokes standing 2 (9f) clean
Well, if you're on the player 1 side it's a calculated risk that could be in your favor!
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
What can a Shang do to prevent NDCs again? I am not being condescending, actually asking lol.
Shangs F4 is 10 frames and mid hitting, so he can either F434 or F4GS

but why does 2 hit when its 9 frames and kabal can always be at +2 against smoke

He can only always be +2 if he's using his 13 frame moves, not his 9f moves. Trust me, just try it out and you'll see what I mean. You cant just assume that he is always going to use 21 or F4 because its just not practical.
 
Now all we have to do is break his zoning game.

Do you guys think Raiden is a good "counter" to Kabal as his zoning is not much of a problem for Raiden, and he can tele out of string? I have been thinking of either Raiden or Reptile to counter Sonyas bas MU's. Kabal and Kenshi.

I am going to learn this stuff inside and out so hopefully Kabal dosnt body me anymore just for being Kabal.
both kabal and kenshi are bad matchups for raiden(kenshi may be 5-5, kabal feels 4-6), reptile would be a better choice considering those are both close to 5