Ugh Bungie...Locked Content: Your thoughts?

[Juggs]

The point is that we shouldn't have to pay extra for something that should have been apart of the original game. DLC is awesome and amazing, but it shouldn't be content taken from the actual game and locked away. Hopefully this picture will explain it better:

 

[RiBBz22]

Dear Haters,

Now you're mad because a company is pacing the release of the the biggest and longest supported software launch in console history. You loved the idea that Bungie(or any company) wanted to try and keep a steady flow of content for upwards of 10 years, yet you want to try and blow though it in 2 days. Not what the game was intended for in the least bit. I swear to god; gamers are the most impossible group to please. This game was way too short, that game wasn't long enough. This game isn't cod, that game isn't a cod clone. This game gets patched too much, where are all the patches?! this shit is broken.
Do us all a favor and stop critiquing anything. You're doing it with no thought process, whilst not even having the credentials or knowledge of any one subject/game to critique anything to begin with. Sorry, not sorry. You suck at bizness.

Sincerely
-BB

Explain how the critique of 0 NPC's outside of the tower and 0 characters that you actually care about in the game is off-base.

 

[trufenix]

Explain how the critique of 0 NPC's outside of the tower and 0 characters that you actually care about in the game is off-base.

listen mang, if you don't love everything there is about a product, you aren't qualified to criticize. Its that simple. Haters and dissidents are just jelly that other people are completely complicit with what they've been given and they wanna ruin the party. What you call bugs and oversights are features, balance issues are just gameplay depth, and all this pre-developed but still locked content is is breadcrumbs left behind by the developer to keep you hype not about what the game is, but what it can one day become. Aren't you excited to play more of the game they developed at the same time as the rest? So what if they wanna make a dime on it. You think your 60 dollars is enough to play a full game? The fact that they have pledged 10 years of support means it is clear they planned all this dischord (they call them, growing pains) and that even though it will cost way more by then by virtue of dlc, one day this game will be worth the 60 bucks you put down right now to support it. Bet. So suck it up and stop living in the past. Part of gaming now is knowing that part of the experience is going to suck, and you're just gonna have to get right with that or pick up a wiimote and stop calling yourself a gamer.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Not long ago, you had people shooting at a cave for hours on end. What does it say about a game's longevity, that at any point in time, players will decide the optimal thing to do is go shoot at a cave for hours?

In all fairness, that literally means nothing.

The cave being a good place to farm has no correlation with how long a game will live for.



Also for the record, it gave you a good chance at some loot, but it was more efficient to farm vanguard/crucible marks and get the pieces you know you needed rather than just hoping a Legendary Engram dropped for the slot you needed, and that it ended up actually being Legendary. Also a big portion of gearing up isn't just getting the gear, it's getting exp to unlock upgrades on the gear, which the cave wasn't that good for.

 

[xxE.Txx]

Not surprised at all by this. Hopefully the expansions will actually add some content to the game. I'm still having fun thanks to PvP, but even then shotgun vs fusion rifle is getting tiring as well.

 

[Johnny San]

Pic Semi-Related

 

[LiangHuBBB]

ffs

 

[Eldriken]

In all fairness, that literally means nothing.

The cave being a good place to farm has no correlation with how long a game will live for.



Also for the record, it gave you a good chance at some loot, but it was more efficient to farm vanguard/crucible marks and get the pieces you know you needed rather than just hoping a Legendary Engram dropped for the slot you needed, and that it ended up actually being Legendary. Also a big portion of gearing up isn't just getting the gear, it's getting exp to unlock upgrades on the gear, which the cave wasn't that good for.

I leveled up a lot of my gear due to that cave. The enemies may only give 20 XP per kill, but that adds up nicely over time, especially if you're sitting there for a while.

It takes longer to acquire the materials for said upgrades than it takes to actually unlock them.

Bounties are obviously the best way to unlock upgrades, but they're limited per day. The cave, however, was not.

You were killing upwards of a thousand or so enemies an hour, which equates to about 20k XP an hour.

 

[ChaosTheory]

Don't you miss stuff like unlocking characters in Super Smash Bros. by doing different tasks? Beat the game without dying, beat everybody's mini-games with record times, or whatever it was you had to do. Doesn't seem like you have that kind of stuff anymore. Now it's, "You want this hidden character? Give me $5."

Or could you imagine playing through a classic like Ocarina of Time and having to wait for DLC to get into the next dungeon and collect certain items? Or how about, "Pre-order Final Fantasy VII at GameStop and get a code for Cloud's Ultimate weapon for free." Pre-order with Amazon and you get a free Blue Chocobo. Wal-Mart gives you an extra All-materia right at the beginning of the game. Etc...

I get why developers and distributors are doing it. They're making fuck-loads selling full versions of games for $120 or whatever it is. I don't blame them. But, man, I hate the model personally.

By the way... what's the difference between content locked on a physical disc that you have to pay to unlock later - and DLC that you pay to download later? Shouldn't you dislike both if you dislike one? I know nothing about Destiny; but if they had the locked on-disc content ready to go, but instead they held on to it at their studios and you had to download it later.... what's the difference? (I think both suck)

 

[xInfra Deadx]

SFxT all over again.

lol

 

[TheSpore]

What Capcom did with SFxT is nearly unforgivable IMO and if Destiny is simply the same scenario they can kiss my money goodbye!!! I stop pre-ordering shit after Aliens: CM unless its a game I know damn well I will be buying day regardless, such as MKX. These companies need some quality control and need to be held accountable for the BS they try and pull.

 

[trufenix]

By the way... what's the difference between content locked on a physical disc that you have to pay to unlock later - and DLC that you pay to download later? Shouldn't you dislike both if you dislike one? I know nothing about Destiny; but if they had the locked on-disc content ready to go, but instead they held on to it at their studios and you had to download it later.... what's the difference? (I think both suck)

You're right, there is no difference. But what the anti-on disc dlc crowd wants (and is frequently ignored) is neither of those things. We want to know that when we pay 60 dollars for a game that's been in development for 2-3 years, we are purchasing the fruits of that development and not just the amount that was to be released on this date, with the remainder to be delivered later. Even if DLC is "planned" the idea is that only planning happens prior to release, no resources got pulled off or out of the "main" development so that the "extra" content could be prepared or made more appealing.

The counter argument is that because DLC is both expected and planned before a game is even released, it MUST be executed at the same time as "main" development for budgetary or resource management purposes. The assurance is that even though it occurs in tandem with main development, different money paid for it / different people worked on it, so it was not "technically" part of your 60 dollar purchase. The validation is that if they didn't do it then, they may never HAVE done it because after release, everyone will be working on something else.

The problem is that this scenario is an entirely producer generated "problem". THere's no law that says DLC has to be done in the first 30 days of a games life, or the first month, or whatever, save sales projections, and general gamer impatience. Unfortunately, DLC has emerged as a lucrative revenue stream, and many publishing houses are now banking on DLC sales on their projections of what gets green lit, or canned or whatever. This means that before the first line of code is written, someone has already decided that x days after release, dlc sales will begin.

 

[cyke_out]

I leveled up a lot of my gear due to that cave. The enemies may only give 20 XP per kill, but that adds up nicely over time, especially if you're sitting there for a while.

It takes longer to acquire the materials for said upgrades than it takes to actually unlock them.

Bounties are obviously the best way to unlock upgrades, but they're limited per day. The cave, however, was not.

You were killing upwards of a thousand or so enemies an hour, which equates to about 20k XP an hour.

Which was why it was patched. This wasn't the first time an exploit was discovered by the players and the dev's corrected the oversight. WoW has had to this before, players find a good farming spot with too high a drop rate which makes the structured content is less important to attempt, and Blizzard had toned it down.

 

[Juggs]

A link that I believe @The Slaj Jazz posted in a status update: http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/70895980/0/0

"I can confirm that there were sudden and abrupt changes in the development of Destiny less than a year ago. There was tension between higher ups the entire time we were developing the title due to a lack of cohesion about the vision for the game. One side wanted this huge space epic, like an MMO Mass Effect and the other side was not convinced that would sell and wanted to pare things back to more "easily accessible" standards. They were afraid too much story elements and cut scenes would drive players off."

"Most of what was cut was planned to be re-polished into DLC, but it's all there on the disc. Not all of it is live on the servers, but it's all there on the disc. Some last minute art assets needed to be remade, which is what you'll be downloading. It's an embarrassing disaster and not the game I thought would be published."

"There is an ongoing plan to release regular DLC flow, provided the game continues to be profitable/projects to be profitable in the future. If the end-user experience thus-far is any indication, it may not be enough content. The game is considerably more barren than what was intended to ship."

"There's still a lot to be proud of with how Destiny turned out, but it isn't the game we set out to make yet."

"There was voice chat and player trading a year ago as well as other player/player interactive elements, as well as a more player-driven economy. The decision to cut voice chat and trading at release was a part of the new "vision" for Destiy."

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

A link that I believe @The Slaj Jazz posted in a status update: http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/70895980/0/0

"I can confirm that there were sudden and abrupt changes in the development of Destiny less than a year ago. There was tension between higher ups the entire time we were developing the title due to a lack of cohesion about the vision for the game. One side wanted this huge space epic, like an MMO Mass Effect and the other side was not convinced that would sell and wanted to pare things back to more "easily accessible" standards. They were afraid too much story elements and cut scenes would drive players off."

"Most of what was cut was planned to be re-polished into DLC, but it's all there on the disc. Not all of it is live on the servers, but it's all there on the disc. Some last minute art assets needed to be remade, which is what you'll be downloading. It's an embarrassing disaster and not the game I thought would be published."
"There is an ongoing plan to release regular DLC flow, provided the game continues to be profitable/projects to be profitable in the future. If the end-user experience thus-far is any indication, it may not be enough content. The game is considerably more barren than what was intended to ship."

"There's still a lot to be proud of with how Destiny turned out, but it isn't the game we set out to make yet."

"There was voice chat and player trading a year ago as well as other player/player interactive elements, as well as a more player-driven economy. The decision to cut voice chat and trading at release was a part of the new "vision" for Destiy."

Reading this again just makes me sad

it really does.

 

[coolwhip]

I feel like most of the complaints about the game aren't so much "this game isn't fun" as "this game wasn't everything that I wanted it to be"

Yeah, this.

Objectively speaking, it's impossible to call Destiny a bad game. It isn't. If this game were to fall on my lap and I had never heard of the hype, I'd come off being satisfied with a fun gaming experience. My problem with it is that's exactly all I find it to be: A fun gaming experience, which is all you can ask for in most games, but not in the biggest and most hyped release of the year with a huge budget and unlimited potential, a lot of which went unfulfilled.

 

[haketh]

Christ reading all the story stuff that was shoved into the cards & never brought up in the actual game brings a tear to my eye as a dude who aspires to write Sci-Fi.

 

[AK Stormthegates]

So am I one of the only people who still likes destiny at this point?

 

[Juggs]

So am I one of the only people who still likes destiny at this point?

Of course not. A bunch of people in this very thread are saying they still enjoy the game. And I still enjoy it to an extent, and will stick around since I'm more of a PVP guy and the PVP is being fixed. I play the game exclusively with friends, I have yet to play it by myself yet, lol.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

So am I one of the only people who still likes destiny at this point?

I really do. Me and my buddy finally beat the weekly strike with better teamwork.

That let me finish my exotic bounty too. So i was super hype. Invective is fun.

I think we all just see that we aren't playing the game we "thought" we were going to be playing. It is kinda the dumbed down version.
Hopefully the expansions use more of what the gameplay aspect was going to be like.

I love the missions in the dark

 

[deathblooms2k4]

Don't you miss stuff like unlocking characters in Super Smash Bros. by doing different tasks? Beat the game without dying, beat everybody's mini-games with record times, or whatever it was you had to do. Doesn't seem like you have that kind of stuff anymore. Now it's, "You want this hidden character? Give me $5."

Or could you imagine playing through a classic like Ocarina of Time and having to wait for DLC to get into the next dungeon and collect certain items? Or how about, "Pre-order Final Fantasy VII at GameStop and get a code for Cloud's Ultimate weapon for free." Pre-order with Amazon and you get a free Blue Chocobo. Wal-Mart gives you an extra All-materia right at the beginning of the game. Etc...

I get why developers and distributors are doing it. They're making fuck-loads selling full versions of games for $120 or whatever it is. I don't blame them. But, man, I hate the model personally.

By the way... what's the difference between content locked on a physical disc that you have to pay to unlock later - and DLC that you pay to download later? Shouldn't you dislike both if you dislike one? I know nothing about Destiny; but if they had the locked on-disc content ready to go, but instead they held on to it at their studios and you had to download it later.... what's the difference? (I think both suck)

There's a pretty significant difference. When you are paying for content locked on disk it means they have already completed the work and likely have covered their development cost both time and money to create the content. The only reason for them to keep it from the customers is to make more money off of it. Even worse is sometimes withholding the content prevents the game from actually being complete which means in a lot of cases if the customer wants a complete game they have to spend more money than they had originally intended to.

This is significantly different than a developer who releases a game that's complete on day one and promises to continue to develop content for it. The idea is that they will continue to support the title by adding content that you will have to purchase in the future. When DLC was originally introduced in the industry this was the premise for it, you would get a complete game and then have added replay value because the developers would continue to support. Before this, some games employed such practices with subscription models. In recent history the only game I can think of that's done it right is Dark Souls 2. They released a full game, and later added an expansion that they needed time to develop post release.

The problem is customers have continued to allow big AAA developers to take advantage of them and now the industry has evolved to where the development has gotten lazy. By using DLC as a crutch companies knowingly release incomplete games knowing that they can charge more for the complete experience later or they can finish games but carve up the complete version to nickle and dime the consumer more.

The disturbing part is that there are people who think this is okay, it's just the status quo and should be accepted. That's a pretty disgusting outlook and I feel sorry for such people who so openly accept being taken advantage of.

All of that said, on the flip side. It comes down to supply and demand. And clearly the demand is being met for such practices to continue. So I completely understand the perspective of hopelessness of things ever changing. But, it's one thing to understand current circumstances and another to verbally accept and try to justify such circumstances.

Fanboyism is alive and well. Hopefully as some people mature they will learn it's okay to like something but still be critical of some of its flaws.

At the end of the day I detest some of the things Bungie has done with Destiny, but I still enjoy the game and think it's worth 60$.

 

[dreemernj]

Assuming they already made the money to cover the cost of the additional content is not necessarily safe to do.

The defense of on-disc DLC is that the content may have never been built in the first place if there was never a plan to sell it as DLC.

If you're making a AAA game one of the first steps is probably setting the scope. They make a list of 100 things they can do with the budget they have to build the game. The budget is based on expected sales. Expected sales are based on tons of other factors.

The money crunchers look at the effectiveness of DLC and say "We can do DLC on its own budget and add up to 20 things to the game."

When should they do that additional 20 things that they are expecting DLC will pay for? If they do it after the game is launched and make it a download instead of an unlock, they can do less for that budget. If you can afford to finish it before launch, you can do more for your budget because its pressed on the disc, its less revisions to push and less downloads to support.

A nefarious company can look at the list of 100 things and decide to make 20 of those DLC. Other companies can look at the list of 100 things and add an additional 20 things on top of it by leveraging the additional income from DLC.

DLC itself, even on-disc DLC, is not really bad. But, like anything else, it can be used to do bad things.

 

[ChaosTheory]

@deathblooms2k4

I agree pretty much in full. My question wasn't really addressed to people thinking like you and I seem to be. Because you're right about the original premise of DLC. And some franchises/games/developers do it in that vein. But I've seen enough to make me cynical.

I don't think that just because content isn't locked on-disc that it isn't ready to be included and is being held out strictly to gain more revenue under the guise of "continued support via DLC." Again, cynical. But I don't believe it.

That's why I posed the question. I really dislike the DLC model as a consumer the way it seems to be implemented nowadays.

I still don't have the entire MK9 game. I'll never have played with the entire roster. And for Injustice players, didn't they pay something like $120 for the full game when all was said and done? Tjats a lot for a fighting game. Just strikes me too strongly as nickel-and-diming.

But I still don't blame developers in the least. The masses pony up for it.

 

[trufenix]

Make sure you read part 2 and part 3 of what the guy had to say. Tragic, to say the least.

 

[Saboteur-6]

I posted this in Rickyraws's thread but it's probably more appropriate in here. Basically there's internet gossip over a supposed Bungie dev getting on Reddit and letting the behind the scenes cat out of the bag via a Q and A. If I had more time I'd go over some highlights but it's a busy day at work. Regardless, here's the Bungie thread dedicated to the now deleted Reddit:

BUNGIE EMPLOYEE AMA ON REDDIT (ABOUT CUT CONTENT/DESTINY DEVELOPMENT)