Strategy - Ferra/Torr Time to start talking tactics and tech

[Gustavness]

Forget the fact that you have no idea who I am, but this is what i see at the end of Day 1!

Ruthless/Vicious

Vicious is simply better overall. Pain and gain startup/recovery is simply too long (resulting in loss of pressure when you would actually want it to be most effective), doesnt last long enough (and will actually run out mid combo so you lose damage as well), and the loss of BOSS TOSS makes it inferior in my opinion

Vicious

Most combo starters here range from 33 to 38% without a bar, which isnt bad at all. All his meter seems to be reserved for his tuck and go armor and breakers. His blockstun and oki pressure game seems to be where it will end up

Boss Toss: Fast, hits mid, excellent arc, covers about 3/4 of the screen, does 16% damage AND MOST IMPORTANTLY When ferra is in the air, she absorbs ALL incoming projectiles (yes, even sub zero's iceballs)

I've noticed that 2, B+4 results in a hard knockdown where you cannot tech roll. It's actually his fastest attack and pretty much begins his oki pressure. using his F+2 or his overhead launcher (and other things) will always hit meaty and can only be beaten by armored wakeups (and not all of them) and all of them seem to lose to his armored rush.

Ferra's Toss, the up close version, is amazing for pressure. using it mid string on block (most notably F+2 into Ferra Toss) and immediately going into a B+1,2,1,2 string (and other things) can only be beaten by SOME armored reversals, but this basically feels like a frame trap. it can jail if you're fast enough with B+1

Cons: Ferra's recovery on Torrs back feels inconsistent even across some of the same moves. also problematic when you get knocked down and are trying to recover.

Just wanted to get conversation started to see if anyone has found anything else.

 

[MK Led]

I definitely think vicious and lackey are the most useful variations, at the moment at least. Trading a great ender for a mildly effective damage damage buff doesn't really seem worth it to me.

I would be happy to be proven wrong though

 

[Monster Planet]

What do you use as Vicious for jump in defense?

 

[Gustavness]

What do you use as Vicious for jump in defense?

Unfortunately, I havent had the opportunity to play anyone offline or online that puts any sort of pressure on me. Everyone ive played online in random matches seems to pretty much suck, for lack of a better term. They see 35% combos with Torr and immediately bail haha. I am going to a local this Friday where IS$$C and a few other people will be and i'm hoping to get a chance to adapt. I've stayed out of the tournament scene for many years but i intend to start going and handing out body bags

I've been spending a lot of time with War God Kotal Kahn and Ronin Takeda (both of these are just awesome) lately so i'm hoping for a lot of experience. If anyone wants to play online on ps4 add me: Gustavness

 

[ll Nooby ll]

What do you use as Vicious for jump in defense?

I haven't tested much, but preemptive B2s or BF3s seem to do the trick. And maybe JB1 could be useful cause it seems fast.

 

[NinjaCW]

I've had the chance to play a good amount with F/T and here's my stance on the variations they have:

Vicious: Really strong until you get knocked down. The reason being you have literally no defense against anything until she is on your back because you need her to activate your specials. So there will definitely be times where you will get blown up in rounds especially against the characters who go nuts on you after they knock you down with 50/50's and what not. It also gives you a pretty good mid range/close range game with the exception of having a strong wake up option other than X-Ray.

The upside is the damage you get (though you get just as much in Lackey but I'll get there in a moment) is kinda crazy considering it's 2-4 buttons being pressed and they have loss a third of their health. So essentially you only have to "touch" someone 3-4 times and they lose that round.

Ruthless: Seems pretty standard. You get a boost but it runs out fast (as stated above) and just no real reason to use it over Lackey or Vicious imo. Not gonna really get into it.

Lackey: I think this is just as strong as Vicious except you lose the range and are forced to play up close at all times. Your damage is still pretty high just now you have to spend a meter to get it. You also have a viable wake up option because of the armored uppercut that combos for good damage raw. So it just depends on how you like to play and what you want your options to be. Cause when someone knocks you down in this variation they have to worry about that armored wake up.

Can't wait to see how it evolves as time goes by or if someone finds something cool with Ruthless.

 

[Indecisive]

Pain and gain has 2-3 hits of armor.

 

[CamRac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL6Zpep0TMBYRsaeOj3cdlZMXN5m0SblnQ&v=ejQz6dQQv4I

It's also worth mentioning that the command grab range in Ruthless is still pretty far. I still agree that Ruthless is an attempt to combine Vicious and Lackey that really makes FT average, but I'm curious to see what we can come up with.

 

[Dog With A Beer]

Ruthless: Seems pretty standard. You get a boost but it runs out fast (as stated above) and just no real reason to use it over Lackey or Vicious imo. Not gonna really get into it.

Finding this problem too, the damage increase from ending strings in Boss Toss seems to be worth about 1.5 stacks of Pain n' Gain. Granted PNG works across all moves and the damage scaling is insane at level 3 (D2 will take out almost 1/3 of their health) but I find it hard to keep stacks up effectively so I'm probably averaging more dmg outta Vicious than Ruthless per round. I really hope people find some sweet tech with Ruthless cause that's definitely where my heart lies, just hard to justify it right now over Vicious.

 

[c_red]

Finding this problem too, the damage increase from ending strings in Boss Toss seems to be worth about 1.5 stacks of Pain n' Gain. Granted PNG works across all moves and the damage scaling is insane at level 3 (D2 will take out almost 1/3 of their health) but I find it hard to keep stacks up effectively so I'm probably averaging more dmg outta Vicious than Ruthless per round. I really hope people find some sweet tech with Ruthless cause that's definitely where my heart lies, just hard to justify it right now over Vicious.

the thing about that, is the game is so geared towards everyone wanting to be in your face that, getting the time to do it just seems non existent to me, I know there's the armor and all but still

 

[Dog With A Beer]

the thing about that, is the game is so geared towards everyone wanting to be in your face that, getting the time to do it just seems non existent to me, I know there's the armor and all but still

yeah, even when I do get Pain N' Gain off safely I feel like my time could have been better spent keeping them off balance. It feels like I'm letting them off the hook more than becoming a bigger threat.

 

[Eminent]

What are some good moves I can still use when I'm waiting for Ferra to come back (in Vicious variation)? I feel like opponents tend to go in aggressively after you've thrown her.

 

[edtheegg]

ive been trying out the ruthless variation of ferra/torr and i only just realized that the move "pain and gain" absorbs a hit of armour

 

[NinjaCW]

What are some good moves I can still use when I'm waiting for Ferra to come back (in Vicious variation)? I feel like opponents tend to go in aggressively after you've thrown her.

To be completely honest you have NO moves you can use as a reversal other than X-Ray. However if you do throw Ferra, Torr does have a really long reach even without her with his b1, d1, 2, and d4.

If you get knocked down and you lose Ferra you are pretty much at their mercy and must block/play defensive. The idea behind Vicious is using a strong neutral game with an added mid range.

 

[Gustavness]

To be completely honest you have NO moves you can use as a reversal other than X-Ray. However if you do throw Ferra, Torr does have a really long reach even without her with his b1, d1, 2, and d4.

If you get knocked down and you lose Ferra you are pretty much at their mercy and must block/play defensive. The idea behind Vicious is using a strong neutral game with an added mid range.

I've been thinking about this myself and have come up with a few things. Once you lose ferra, your best options seem to be;

D+1 - this now becomes a 5 frame long distance jab and safe
F+3, 2 - same as always, two advancing mids that are safe with the option of just the F+3 and going for something else
F+2 - safe, leads to 35% combo
D+3/D+4 low pokes

Big one is 2, F+4. 7 frames, Hard knockdown. If they block it, not only is it completely safe but the blockstun is so long that ferra will be on your back before there is anything they can throw at you. plus, this string does 3% block (which is actually a lot). I feel like this move is the go to and has worked better for me than the B+1 string, good range on the mid kick as well.

 

[NinjaCW]

I've been thinking about this myself and have come up with a few things. Once you lose ferra, your best options seem to be;

D+1 - this now becomes a 5 frame long distance jab and safe
F+3, 2 - same as always, two advancing mids that are safe with the option of just the F+3 and going for something else
F+2 - safe, leads to 35% combo
D+3/D+4 low pokes

Big one is 2, F+4. 7 frames, Hard knockdown. If they block it, not only is it completely safe but the blockstun is so long that ferra will be on your back before there is anything they can throw at you. plus, this string does 3% block (which is actually a lot). I feel like this move is the go to and has worked better for me than the B+1 string, good range on the mid kick as well.

That's actually a great idea honestly. I use that string to finish combos and set up a nice oki situation.

 

[MK Led]

So dealing with fullscreen zoning from some characters is going to be an issue. Ideally you could avoid these scenarios but if you find yourself at fullscreen against a character like full-auto jacqui as vicious or ruthless, there is very little you can do to get in, as many zoning tools in this game have multiple hits, making the armour you get on EX run null and void. And if the projectile is fast and just being used over and over again, it is likely that your Ferra throwing moves will either get interrupted, or when Torr is hit Ferra will fall out of the air. I know Ferra eats most if not all physical fireballs, but characters like JC can keep throwing them out again before she can get on Torr's back again. The only option is to advance while they've been downed by a Ferra toss or slide, but if they have a gun (Cassie, Erron, Jacqui) this is no longer as viable a strategy.

(Obviously lackey has less issues with this cos EX roll, but without meter he is in the same boat as his variation buddies)

Thoughts?

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

The neutral jump punch is godlike, it looks so cool when you stuff crossups and other stuff with it.

If ferra had her own variation where torr was on the sidelines, she would be my main character

 

[NinjaCW]

So dealing with fullscreen zoning from some characters is going to be an issue. Ideally you could avoid these scenarios but if you find yourself at fullscreen against a character like full-auto jacqui as vicious or ruthless, there is very little you can do to get in, as many zoning tools in this game have multiple hits, making the armour you get on EX run null and void. And if the projectile is fast and just being used over and over again, it is likely that your Ferra throwing moves will either get interrupted, or when Torr is hit Ferra will fall out of the air. I know Ferra eats most if not all physical fireballs, but characters like JC can keep throwing them out again before she can get on Torr's back again. The only option is to advance while they've been downed by a Ferra toss or slide, but if they have a gun (Cassie, Erron, Jacqui) this is no longer as viable a strategy.

(Obviously lackey has less issues with this cos EX roll, but without meter he is in the same boat as his variation buddies)

Thoughts?

If someone trying to zone you with Cassie or even Jacqui your goal is to trade a slide (in Vicious). Once that happens you can get in range for bf4 because now you win the trade. Or even hit the slide run up jump at them if you anticipate another projectile.

 

[MK Led]

If someone trying to zone you with Cassie or even Jacqui your goal is to trade a slide (in Vicious). Once that happens you can get in range for bf4 because now you win the trade. Or even hit the slide run up jump at them if you anticipate another projectile.

Thanks, but I am aware of this (I was including the slide in "Ferra throwing moves"). The problem as I see it is that some characters projectiles, let's say full-auto Jacqui cos I've had experience fighting her specifically, stuff the animation for the slide before you can get Ferra out - if they catch you full-screen and just don't let up on the zoning pressure.

 

[AceOfKnaves]

Thanks, but I am aware of this (I was including the slide in "Ferra throwing moves"). The problem as I see it is that some characters projectiles, let's say full-auto Jacqui cos I've had experience fighting her specifically, stuff the animation for the slide before you can get Ferra out - if they catch you full-screen and just don't let up on the zoning pressure.

You can neutral crouch Jaqui's full auto.
And have enough time to throw a bowl girl for trade. only the first bullet will hit you So Bowl girl will do more damage in trade

 

[MK Led]

You can neutral crouch Jaqui's full auto.
And have enough time to throw a bowl girl for trade. only the first bullet will hit you So Bowl girl will do more damage in trade

Again, thanks - I do know you can duck under the attack, it must have been online fuckin with the timing, even though there appeared to be minimal lag. I have since tried this offline in training mode with the whole cast and it is relatively easy in most cases, though with proper blocking/timing some of the more heavily zoning based characters can obviously still give f/t a hard time if you get caught at full-screen.

 

[Parnak]

Again, thanks - I do know you can duck under the attack, it must have been online fuckin with the timing, even though there appeared to be minimal lag. I have since tried this offline in training mode with the whole cast and it is relatively easy in most cases, though with proper blocking/timing some of the more heavily zoning based characters can obviously still give f/t a hard time if you get caught at full-screen.

Fellow Ferra/Torrians, fret not about Jacquie's full auto spamming, even online it's simple to deal with. Blocking it is -9 for her, reverse it with Bowl girl (Ferra slide), dash in and then use Boss Toss on Vicious or Bowl girl/Ferra toss on Ruthless. On Lackey, ex Torr Charge has full armor and will cover all distance to tramp through her. If there is no meter, block the bullets, dash in, block again and then reverse with roll. In both cases, distance is closed for good.

 

[SubHero]

I've been messing around with the Lackey variant - and I gotta say, I'm definitely impressed.

 

[Barrogh]

So... What can you tell to someone who really needs FGs 101 in fighting up close with F/T Vicious? With normals being generally long but slow. how do you approach in-your-face situations? I guess we are supposed to use d3 (or d1 for better reach, but it's slow), what do we do next?