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Strategy The Subzero tech/strat video thread

NB Semi Evil Ryu

Former Sub-Zero of the Midwest (2011 - 2015)
Sgt Reed 24

Lately, I've come to accept the fact that Sub Zero is all about just laming your opponent out if you have the life lead and your opponent is dangerous when they're in your face.

This was firmly decided, last night, when I was playing a few casual matches against Pig of the Hut and his Jax. I've never really encountered that MU very often, so he gave me some pointers. One of which was to be patient and lame my life lead. Once he told me that, the following exchange occurred:

Me: But I don't know if I can be patient and lame out like that.

Pig: You don't know if you can be patient?

Me: Yeah...

Pig: Then you are playing the WRONG character.

After that, I sat there for a second and basically had a House Moment.

If we want the absolute best chance of succeeding with this character, then we're going to just have to accept that there may be moments where we have to turtle for extensive periods of time to get that W.

Anyway, back to the video. I only had time to watch the first round. Two things: One - You throw out an en Ice Beam near the beginning. I'm assuming that you did this because you were trying to make a read (was going to jump towards you, maybe try a sudden shadow kick, etc.) Ten seconds into the very first round probably is not the best time to be making reads like this. Just stick with your normal gameplan for a bit, really pay attention to what your opponent is doing. Then, if he IS doing stuff where a counter with something like Ice Beam will catch him, totally throw it out there.

Two - (And this is kind of minor) At the end of that first round, you had him frozen in mid-air and you decided to finish him off with a NJP. I've found that Cage's options of how to open up the start of the round become much more limited the farther he is away from you when that round starts. That being said, an uppercut would have finished him off AND would have pushed him outside of jump distance from you. Again, kind of minor but just a little food for thought.

I will watch the rest of the video within the next day or two. Right now, I have to get cleaned up and get me some casuals here at this final day of UFGT.

Later guys!
 
Yeah, you jumped too much against Cage. Never, ever jump in on Cage. Although this worked out for you, he only got hit because he was trying to AA you, and I can only guess there was lag. Better Cages/less lag will AA every time. Everything Cage does is an AA, really. I generally try to D3~212 out of Cage pressure instead of jumping, depending on if the lag will let counterpokes work. So many Cages are too good at converting attempted jumpouts into a nutpunch. And get frustrated! lol Online works too well in Cages favor. It's not just your percieved failings.

Another good strategy against Cage pressure is to utilize the armor on EX Slide. I like to do it after Cages 11F1 and EX Forceballs. Watch for F33. It's pretty much the only pressure tool he uses that's negative (-4) on block, save for blocked pokes. Still guessing games with that (will he poke to get the pressure back or just go into another F3?) but it can be a big turn around.

Look for opportunities to put people in the corner. At the end of the first Round, first match, you could've easily put him in the corner for Round 2, but you didn't.

But mostly, it's your corner game that needs work. Your midscreen game is fine. Don't really worry about the 224~Clone on hit. I still do that too occasionally, but at least you got some damage in, are safe and get some good screen carry.

In the corner, you have a few real options after 212~Clone. Tom explained these in a video not too long ago. First, know that the clone can be jumped over, so be ready to anti-air 22 them into it if they like to do that. Depending on the pushback you get from the Clone, you can deep jump kick into pressure and another clone setup (which you can convert into a combo on hit) or jump kick them on the top of the head which will actually get them in the clone if they get hit.

Like Tom said in his last video. EVERY. SINGLE. THING. Sub does is a guess/read. Especially in the corner. There are so many different ways for people to get out. You have to know the characters, what they can do and what the player wants to do.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Sgt Reed 24

Lately, I've come to accept the fact that Sub Zero is all about just laming your opponent out if you have the life lead and your opponent is dangerous when they're in your face.

This was firmly decided, last night, when I was playing a few casual matches against Pig of the Hut and his Jax. I've never really encountered that MU very often, so he gave me some pointers. One of which was to be patient and lame my life lead. Once he told me that, the following exchange occurred:

Me: But I don't know if I can be patient and lame out like that.

Pig: You don't know if you can be patient?

Me: Yeah...

Pig: Then you are playing the WRONG character.

After that, I sat there for a second and basically had a House Moment.

If we want the absolute best chance of succeeding with this character, then we're going to just have to accept that there may be moments where we have to turtle for extensive periods of time to get that W.

Anyway, back to the video. I only had time to watch the first round. Two things: One - You throw out an en Ice Beam near the beginning. I'm assuming that you did this because you were trying to make a read (was going to jump towards you, maybe try a sudden shadow kick, etc.) Ten seconds into the very first round probably is not the best time to be making reads like this. Just stick with your normal gameplan for a bit, really pay attention to what your opponent is doing. Then, if he IS doing stuff where a counter with something like Ice Beam will catch him, totally throw it out there.

Two - (And this is kind of minor) At the end of that first round, you had him frozen in mid-air and you decided to finish him off with a NJP. I've found that Cage's options of how to open up the start of the round become much more limited the farther he is away from you when that round starts. That being said, an uppercut would have finished him off AND would have pushed him outside of jump distance from you. Again, kind of minor but just a little food for thought.

I will watch the rest of the video within the next day or two. Right now, I have to get cleaned up and get me some casuals here at this final day of UFGT.

Later guys!
haha, good ol' Pig! XD and it's true.

LOL, yeah... I don't really know what I was thinking with that. It was just sort of a "hey, maybe this'll catch him for a life lead" thing, I guess. As for the NJP, I don't won't to fall into situations where I think an uppercut will kill someone and then it doesn't and they end up making a huge comeback b/c I didn't finish them when I had the chance. (You'll see this a couple times in these matches... not b/c of an uppercut, just the comebacks). I'd rather do a NJP and be able to combo, just in case.

Thanks for the input and I look forward to seeing what you have to say about the rest of it! Have fun with the casuals.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
My responses in blue. :)

Yeah, you jumped too much against Cage. Never, ever jump in on Cage. Although this worked out for you, he only got hit because he was trying to AA you, and I can only guess there was lag. Better Cages/less lag will AA every time. Everything Cage does is an AA, really. I generally try to D3~212 out of Cage pressure instead of jumping, depending on if the lag will let counterpokes work. So many Cages are too good at converting attempted jumpouts into a nutpunch. And get frustrated! lol Online works too well in Cages favor. It's not just your percieved failings.

yeah, jumping... *sigh* ... typical online warrior right here. Aside from that, I don't remember it lagging at all, it was pretty flawless for me, idk about mind gamez. I think he may have just been mis-timing his AAs. Still though, I had HUGE leads... you have no idea how frustrated I was. lol

"I generally try to D3~212" ... does that work? When do you D3? After a F33, after you block a D3? when!? lol ... that's my biggest problem in his pressure, idk when/how to get out. I was just trying to jump the fuck out.

Another good strategy against Cage pressure is to utilize the armor on EX Slide. I like to do it after Cages 11F1 and EX Forceballs. Watch for F33. It's pretty much the only pressure tool he uses that's negative (-4) on block, save for blocked pokes. Still guessing games with that (will he poke to get the pressure back or just go into another F3?) but it can be a big turn around.

I've tried this a lot before and it seems I always get stuffed. I'm too scared to try it now. haha

Look for opportunities to put people in the corner. At the end of the first Round, first match, you could've easily put him in the corner for Round 2, but you didn't.

Well, you saw my corner game... now you know why I don't put people there! :p ... nah, seriously though, I just didn't think of that. Good idea.

But mostly, it's your corner game that needs work. Your midscreen game is fine. Don't really worry about the 224~Clone on hit. I still do that too occasionally, but at least you got some damage in, are safe and get some good screen carry.

In the corner, you have a few real options after 212~Clone. Tom explained these in a video not too long ago. First, know that the clone can be jumped over, so be ready to anti-air 22 them into it if they like to do that. Depending on the pushback you get from the Clone, you can deep jump kick into pressure and another clone setup (which you can convert into a combo on hit) or jump kick them on the top of the head which will actually get them in the clone if they get hit.

Like Tom said in his last video. EVERY. SINGLE. THING. Sub does is a guess/read. Especially in the corner. There are so many different ways for people to get out. You have to know the characters, what they can do and what the player wants to do.

Yeah man, I've seen all this videos. I know what to do, I just have trouble actually doing it and making the right reads (if they are going to jump straight up, jump over, block, armor, etc). Like I said, I just don't get any practice with people in the corner. You can't do that stuff in training mode. I need more real situations there to practice it.

Thanks for the input man!
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I think the most important thing... is that you have to be confident in your read... and how you play.
The more you second guess (I do this so often)... the more often you'll do something wrong. Even if you lose on a bad read, but were confident it would happen for you, you'll feel better about it. Instead of a "dang I should of done X"... you'll simply tip you cap and move on.

The thing I like about 2,2 by itself is that people hesitate waiting for the 4. I can usually clone and catch the f3 before they can react. I'm pretty sure 2,2 is -6? ice clone is a 2 frame move.... so thats frames at a good distance... and cage can't approach REGARDLESS if I space this well.

I didn't do it last night... but sometimes I'll use d1~clone because d1 is negative on hit... and usually it'll catch a followup.
 

NB Semi Evil Ryu

Former Sub-Zero of the Midwest (2011 - 2015)
There's only a few MU's where you will want to use 214. Johnny Cage is one of them.

Reason being is that a well timed en nut punch WILL nail you during the 212 string between the 1 and 2, as en nuts has invincibility (also Cage's X-Ray will blow you up at that same gap). If Cage has a bar, use 214. Otherwise, you should still be safe with 212.
 
Yes, you have not felt the pain that is those who take advantage of 21_get blown up_2.

Reptiles can Dash it. Kung Lao can Spin it. Cyber Sub can Parry it. Raiden can Teleport. Cage can EX Nutpunch. I've experienced all firsthand.

And that's not even the armor moves. When you feel this pain, you will switch to 214.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Yes, you have not felt the pain that is those who take advantage of 21_get blown up_2.

Reptiles can Dash it. Kung Lao can Spin it. Cyber Sub can Parry it. Raiden can Teleport. Cage can EX Nutpunch. I've experienced all firsthand.

And that's not even the armor moves. When you feel this pain, you will switch to 214.
I will say... always test the waters. Some players feel that it is too much of a risk and will just block the string regardless.
It is also good to KNOW that your opponent is trying to poke out... so you can bait and punish the move (not a poke but a move).
Plus... 2,1,4 gives you that pushback where you don't have to immediately clone EVERY time. Bait that jump in or a dash into the delayed clone. Just another mind game.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Yes, you have not felt the pain that is those who take advantage of 21_get blown up_2.

Reptiles can Dash it. Kung Lao can Spin it. Cyber Sub can Parry it. Raiden can Teleport. Cage can EX Nutpunch. I've experienced all firsthand.

And that's not even the armor moves. When you feel this pain, you will switch to 214.
No one has EVER armored me or dashed me or anything in b/w 212. Most people are scared to do that. I know I am. lol

Still though, getting blown up is worth the chance of a combo over 214 clone/slide. imo ... but like I said, I've never been blown up by it.
 

Lord Beef

Death Metal and Trance
No one has EVER armored me or dashed me or anything in b/w 212. Most people are scared to do that. I know I am. lol

Still though, getting blown up is worth the chance of a combo over 214 clone/slide. imo ... but like I said, I've never been blown up by it.
I'm with charlie here. Test the waters. When I play blake, for example and he's playing Raiden that particular mind game becomes a large factor because I know that he knows how to blow it up. In those type of matches, I like use 214 in the corner first just to make sure that's what they are acclimated to. Then surprise with a 212 next time into deep jk traps. Just my two cents.

Sent from Cyberdyne Systems
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I'm with charlie here. Test the waters. When I play blake, for example and he's playing Raiden that particular mind game becomes a large factor because I know that he knows how to blow it up. In those type of matches, I like use 214 in the corner first just to make sure that's what they are acclimated to. Then surprise with a 212 next time into deep jk traps. Just my two cents.

Sent from Cyberdyne Systems
here is a thought... When you do 2,1,2 and he teleports... can you backward input clone and still be safe? I've never tried this... but in theory it should maybe work?
edt: nope. he has 20 frames to punish you ... blah. I almost never use this string against raiden... always 2,2 2,2,4 and 2,1,4. I make that cocksucker block in the corner!!!
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Okay if someone has had this idea already forgive me, but after any close normal into ground freeze you can whiff an ice clone for meter and still do jump punch b121.

Totally free meter.

 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Okay if someone has had this idea already forgive me, but after any close normal into ground freeze you can whiff an ice clone for meter and still do jump punch b121.

Totally free meter.

Yes,it's known,but thank you for taking the time to record and post it
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Yeah never seen a tourny player use it. I wonder why?

Obviously you wouldn't use it in a situation where you want to switch sides though.
That's a good question,probably because it's only 3% meter and almost useless,i use it only when i trade with ex freeze,i play online so i don't risk losing a combo for some meter.

after an ex freeze if you wanna switch sides you can fullscreen slide,crossup and combo.
 

ryublaze

Noob
I always do it unless my opponent has breaker or if I want to switch sides. Idk why tourney players don't do it cuz it's not that hard to do. If you feel like you're going to whiff the jump-in punch, you can dash before before doing the Ice Clone so you're closer. Also after an EX Ice Ball at fullscreen or 3/4 screen you can Ice Clone (which puts you at fullscreen anyways) then Slide and crossover punch like Qwark said. I've seen other people like GamerBlake90 whiffing Ice Puddles at fullscreen too.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I always do it unless my opponent has breaker or if I want to switch sides. Idk why tourney players don't do it cuz it's not that hard to do. If you feel like you're going to whiff the jump-in punch, you can dash before before doing the Ice Clone so you're closer. Also after an EX Ice Ball at fullscreen or 3/4 screen you can Ice Clone (which puts you at fullscreen anyways) then Slide and crossover punch like Qwark said. I've seen other people like GamerBlake90 whiffing Ice Puddles at fullscreen too.
Yeah I saw the one that blake does.

That made me think of this one.
IDK why you'd do this but if you ex freeze someone point blank you can clone and puddle and still have time to crossup.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
The reason I don't do the failed ice clone is b/c I'm paranoid that I won't get the combo in time. I'd rather get my damage rather than meter and risk not getting it.