The Genuinely Unwinnable Matchups.

Discussion in 'Strategy Zone' started by Angel Oleander, Apr 29, 2012.

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  1. Angel Oleander

    Angel Oleander Hellfire & DoomStroke.

    It seems like every tournament that goes by, the tier lists are becoming less and less reliable in their ability to tell you who's supposed to come out on top of who. MK9's being proven more and more to be balanced nearly centeredly around player's prowess, with a cast capable of victory no matter who they encounter...with a few choice exceptions.

    Which begs the question: All skill, power, and brilliance aside...what matchups in this game do you all believe are truly, not-even-fuck-with-ably, unwinnable at the highest possible level?

    My answer's always the same: Sub cannot beat Kenshi.

    Thoughts?
    MKK hanzo likes this.
  2. 1man3letters

    1man3letters OBS - Alpha Tarkatan - Hellfire Moderator Staff Member Premium Supporter

    there are no 10-0 MUs in this game so no match is unwinnable, some tougher than others sure but none unwinnable
  3. Flagg

    Flagg Well-Known Member

    It was an interesting tournie, because while Detroit is a counter picking player, Jr and REO stuck to their mains. In the end it worked out for CD Jr.

    It pleases me because of character loyalty and people forgetting this counter picking nonsense and focussing on dealing with bad match ups.

    There are a few bad match ups though.

    SZ and Kitana struggle like hell against Kenshi.

    CSZ struggles like hell against Kitana and a purely zoning Mileena.

    Cage struggles like hell against Kabal.

    I think Kano struggles really badly against Skarlet and Jade.

    I don't believe these matches are impossible, but extremely difficult to overcome, because the tough character seemingly has a counter to anything the struggling character can do.
    zee and OneBoxyRobot like this.
  4. zee

    zee Icy

    XBL:
    movezero
    Try CSZ vs zoning Kabal... oh joy:REO
    OneBoxyRobot likes this.
  5. Angel Oleander

    Angel Oleander Hellfire & DoomStroke.

    You guys are both right, to an extent. No one's unbeatable on paper, but in tournament/2 outta 3/3 outta 5 settings, I'm of the impression that there are some fights ala the ones listed here (gotta throw in Jade V Kenshi and Noob V Raiden/Kabal as well) that whoever's playing the disadvantaged character should really have a backup plan for.
  6. HGTV DrFlash44

    HGTV DrFlash44 Quan Cheese!!!

    XBL:
    DrFlash44
    There are no unwinnable matchups in this game but the one's that are close in my opinion are

    Kabal vs. Kenshi
    Johnny Cage vs. Sheeva
    Kenshi vs. Sub Zero
    Raiden vs. Noob
    Chuck Norris vs. Whole Cast -This one is unwinnable
    OneBoxyRobot likes this.
  7. Flagg

    Flagg Well-Known Member

    I feel bad for Jade. I find it crazy she cant glow through that Kenshi shit. I honestly believe she was intended to play similar to Skarlet. High execution, but big damage and meter building. Jade is still a cool character though.

    Boxy, perhaps the back up plan should be to keep going with your main.

    For example, lets assume you're a CSZ player and you're getting blown up by a Kabal or Mileena zoner. Even though you are 100% comfortable with your character. So you think "okay, im getting a pocket Jax" ..... and then you still get blown up.

    The point im making is I believe people will do better with their best main, even in their tough match ups, rather than using a pocket character they only know a few BNB's with.

    DrFlash44, Chuck Norris is a bitch now. He whined about the content of The Expendables 2 and now that film might be a PG. I mean ffs...
  8. GGA 16 Bit

    GGA 16 Bit Mash d+1~Cat Claws

    Kitana vs Sub-Zero might be among the worst and it's possible. Tom could probably defeat most Kitana players.
    aj1701 likes this.
  9. Angel Oleander

    Angel Oleander Hellfire & DoomStroke.

    That's the problem with Kenshi. I'm a Sub-Zero mainer :(. Lol.

    My definition of this fight comes from watching Tom VS CD and the various Kits of the world: Fight To Be Lame. IF Sub manages to get the lifelead, his job then becomes to stay the fuck away from her at all costs unless she makes a blatant error, and wait out that clock like he's waiting for a steak at Outback. Her offense is beyond superior compared to his, with or without meter, and his bar does him no good as far as offense seeing as the EX Kamehameha gets stuffed by iAF and one blocked Slide = 40%+ combos, but if he does manage to get ahead, she HAS to respect his defensive options unless she wants to end up frozen.
  10. Flagg

    Flagg Well-Known Member

    OneBoxyRobot, if it's any consolation, Kitana...anyone with a air fireball, but her in particular is super hard for a CSZ mainer like me. I'm deterimined to find away round that fan spam though. If you can land one slide on her, then you get in and have half a chance as Kitanas wake up options are terrible.

    People still say SZ and CSZ is 6:4 SZ, but i think its even.

    It's a shame you're on PNS and we can't play. We could have a good chat about this as well.
  11. 1man3letters

    1man3letters OBS - Alpha Tarkatan - Hellfire Moderator Staff Member Premium Supporter

    of course going into a tournment without a plan/backup plan is the folly of the unwise.
    when in a tournment situation its best to try give yourself the best chance of taking that 2 outta 3,3 outta 5 etc which i think got out of hand in some of the US tournies lately with the crazy amount of counter picking going on.
    if u can play 5 chars to the level of your main thats great but i think it comes down to personal preference, like i will never play baraka vs liu kang in a tournment again as i hate the MU but i have no problem using raka against the likes of kenshi and lao which are harder MUs for him,when things go tits up with raka i have mileena as my back up and even a secret backup to her that only a handful of people know i play, i doubt ill ever break it out in a tourny though, too much love for the tarkatan bloodline
    Flagg likes this.
  12. CanadianBaconX

    CanadianBaconX Smoke weeb everyday!

    PSN:
    MTL_Bacon
    XBL:
    MTL Bacon
    Steam:
    MTL Bacon
    Oh please... Chuck Norris vs. Liu Kang is atleast 8 - 2 Liu :p
  13. Angel Oleander

    Angel Oleander Hellfire & DoomStroke.

    It depends entirely on who's better at controlling their space and using their opponent's tools against them.
    If the Sub can mindfuck the CSZ's Divekicks and get him to dance into Clones, he'll come out on top. But a good CSZ knows how limited his human counterpart is, and he can make him dance to his discretion. I still think it's 6-4, but a very liberal 6-4 just because of how slow some of CSZ's tools are.

    Kit's and Kabal's are the worst just because of the size of their hurtboxes. Liu's, Mil's, Skarlet's, nowhere near as bad to get around, but the two of them are just doo-doo.
  14. TakeAChance

    TakeAChance Web Shooting Enthusiast

    Jade Kenshi. Topic Over.
  15. greeneless

    greeneless Active Member

    Jade vs. Kenshi is like 2-8.
    Sheeva vs. Mileena is like 1-9.

    Kitana, Kabal, and Sub Zero vs CSZ are really bad but probably all 7-3.

    Edit: Oh, I forgot Cage vs. Scorpion 8-2
  16. Angel Oleander

    Angel Oleander Hellfire & DoomStroke.

    Absolutely. Some people say Sub V Raiden is terrible for Subby, I know people who'd yell at me fiercely for fighting him at a show when I play Rax and Blax who'd arguably be the better choice, but there's no one out of my 4 I feel more comfortable fighting him with.

    I don't call it counter-picking, I like to think of it as keeping my options open :). Lol.
  17. Flagg

    Flagg Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I would say the advantages CSZ in the SZ match up has is much bigger damage output, relatively safe trades. You can divekick on reaction a ice blast, its when you got a SZ not throwing that stuff out, just sort of "moving" with no indication of what he will do and it's all to easy to dive into clone. CSZ is much better up close though and if you're slick enough, you can ice parry in the middle of some of SZ strings.
  18. Angel Oleander

    Angel Oleander Hellfire & DoomStroke.

    Precisely. Neeeeeeeever throw naked shots at Cyber Sub, he'll make you wish you were wearing clothes.

    Still wish I could've kept the Parry :(. R.I.P. Human Parry.
  19. Flagg

    Flagg Well-Known Member

    CSZ is such an interesting character because of his specials. You have to pick when to use them. If you guess right, CSZ is in which you don't want. I've been trying to play around with a CSZ bomb pressure game, going in with a string into close bomb, then a string into medium bomb, trying to unsettle the opponent, or thrown one bomb, teleport, another bomb and so forth.
  20. Angel Oleander

    Angel Oleander Hellfire & DoomStroke.

    I played J360's Cyber Sub once. I was scarred for life.
    The best thing about his Bombs isn't the pop, it's what people will do to get away from them.
  21. HGTV DrFlash44

    HGTV DrFlash44 Quan Cheese!!!

    XBL:
    DrFlash44
    Well Rain might be 5 : 5 because it's just a roundhouse battle
    aj1701 likes this.
  22. STB Sgt Reed

    STB Sgt Reed Online Warrior

    That robotic bastard!!! Stealing SZ's moves!!! And an extremely useful one at that!
  23. STB Sgt Reed

    STB Sgt Reed Online Warrior

    Sub-Zero vs Kenshi is pretty much as close to unwinnable as you are going to get.

    it's like 3-7 Tom's Sub vs Kenshi
    and like
    1-9 for the rest of us Sub players. lol

    Ice ball = useless b/c of reflect
    Clone = almost useless b/c Kenshi isn't gonna be coming at you. lol
    Ice Puddle = useless. LOL
    Slide = your only chance... and most of the time you're gonna be 3/4ths screen or full screen away. In which case it's easy for him to react to, or you aren't going to make it to him with it.
  24. Mikemetroid

    Mikemetroid NE Propaganda Artist Staff Member Premium Supporter

    I know I'm going to get shit from this but personally I can't stand the Cage v Kenshi matchup. I am more comfortable fighting Kabal than I am that blind bastard.
  25. GNG Iniquity

    GNG Iniquity Lobo Duck for DLC! No moar batz!

    Liu Kang vs Quan Chi - 7-3 (forget it)
    Sonya vs Quan Chi - 7-3 (forget it)
    Kabal vs Cage - REO states it's a 6-4, but I dunno, always came off as more of a 7-3 imo.
    Cage vs Jax - 7-3 isn't it? lol
    Jax vs Kabal - 7-3? lol
    Kenshi vs Sub/Kitana - blown up


    Anyways. You get the idea. When all else fails learn Cage, Sonya, Kenshi and Jax! :)

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