Sheeva deadly mix up ?

Discussion in 'Sheeva' started by yautjared, Jan 18, 2012.

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  1. yautjared

    yautjared It comes with the job

    This is used, or well known ?

    F+3(knee kick) xx b,f+3 (Grab n Punch) = guaranteed 22% combo if enemy is blocking stand
    F+3(knee kick) xx d,b+3(Low Grab) = juggle starter for a more devasting combo followin up, if enemy is blocking duck

    Either way, does not matter if the enemy is blocking stand or duck .... if he is stand, you use the first option, if he is ducking, you just use second, I find that seems a very cool mix up option for Sheeva, a 50/50 guaranteed block break if you choose right. I tested with AI and seems impossible to defend this.

    The opponent, if stand, cannot block the first option that hits low, and next, he is grabbed
    The opponet, if ducking, can defend the 1st hit of option 2, but, it's impossible to defend the low grab, only if he uses fuzzy guard "on time"

    Discuss
    Asodimazze likes this.
  2. Sindelia

    Sindelia Shee/ndel Judge

    PSN:
    Sindelia
    XBL:
    Sindella
    f3 sadly comes out a bit slow. Works better after a JIP or stomp, aa grab and sometimes in knockdowns,
    assuming they won't wake up attack you.
    f3 b1 and f3 2 are options as well, not as high % as the ones you said but still flashy.
    I prefer b2 as a low combo starter as it's got more reach and leads to an easy 30%+
  3. yautjared

    yautjared It comes with the job

    Agreed, F3 is slow, very easy to notice that, but, this mix up choice seems useful in corner pressure, and going for it, even with enemy blocking in any way, stand or duck, leaves for this 50/50 guaranteed, if you choose right, there is no escape. I was trying Ladder yesterday in Expert, using Sheeva , and was winning every fight only using this shit, lol !! :p

    I found very interesting, and the cancel move require some practice, to get used, due the slow frame start of F3, but, it's one more option to Sheeva, who is a very relegated and despised character, hehe :D
  4. GGA Jeremiah

    GGA Jeremiah From 2nd worst to 2nd best

    It starts a good mixup after a jump in punch. But once an opponent starts getting used to it they can block the jump in punch and then d1 you before your f3 hits. So it is good to use every once in awhile to keep your opponent guessing but overuse it and then your opponent will start getting out of jump in punches for free.
  5. yautjared

    yautjared It comes with the job

    oh, no, man, there is a misunderstood here ..... :):p

    When you came with your new tech, in another thread, that you did, I wrote that, doing a jump punch in a ducking enemy blocking, goes for a stun state, what you might could link with a D+1 and chain with a low grab .... your observation is right about that

    What I am discussing in this thread, is that, using F+3 isolated, you have these scenarios situations :

    - if your opponent is not blocking in "stand" position, he eats the F3;
    - if your opponent is not blocking in "duck"position, he eats the F3
    - if your opponent IS blocking "stand", he eats the F3, and next, you can cancell it into a b,f3 without defense
    - if your opponent IS blocking "duck", he defends the F3, but, if you cancel it into low grab, he cannot defend, because you have frame advantage due the block stun, so, you gain a guaranteed low grab

    The theory is : whatever he is doing, he will take some damage consequence of the F3 + something else, does not matter if hits him blocking or not.

    I know you are one of the best Sheeva players around, so, you could test this, and see if it's right. F3 is slow, and hard to cancel into something, but, if my theory is right, is a deadly weapon, because there is no way to enemy to escape, unless he use breaker or a very , very quick timing in fuzzy guard.

    I tested a lot vs AI, in Training and ladder, and its falls for it all the time.

    :D ;)
  6. RunwayMafia

    RunwayMafia Top 64 HawkGirl Evo'13 Premium Supporter

    I use the JIP with 3 into grab n punch all the time...it's a great jip string (especially if they block then you can right into d4 fireball, d4 tele stomp, d4 ground pound). After they get conditioned to the 3 grab n punch THAT'S when I start incorporating the F3...it works every time. Also, if they don't wake up that much I tend to dash in with a F3 and I go from there...
  7. yautjared

    yautjared It comes with the job

    good stuff :D

    I realized that using isolated F3 with the enemy in stand block, is hard to time and cancel into a b,f3, sometimes, fails hard ....
    But, for a crouched ducking blocking, works nicely. Anyway, if F3 was 6 or 8 frames less slow, could work nicely in any situation !
  8. GGA Jeremiah

    GGA Jeremiah From 2nd worst to 2nd best

    This Thursday and Sunday I'm practicing with the GGA guys. I will test f3 a lot with them and see what I can do.
    Espio872 and yautjared like this.
  9. yautjared

    yautjared It comes with the job

    yeah, you are very skilled and know Sheeva gameplay a lot, man !! I know that Sheeva is pretty underrated, and not everyone fall in love for her gameplay, but, any try about attempting to discover something that might work with her, it's a good intention. :p

    I noticed that, if canceling F3 to b,f3 seems hard and slow, you can always use her fireball as cancelled move, and the output is faster, so, after F3, if your enemy is blocking stand, you can use fireball instead of Grab N Punch :D
    GGA Jeremiah likes this.
  10. GGA Jeremiah

    GGA Jeremiah From 2nd worst to 2nd best

    Well thank you. I remember trying f3 when I was learning Sheeva and abandoned it due to its slowness. But the mixup potential is definitely there. I wonder what priority properties it has. Like does it beat a d4?
  11. yautjared

    yautjared It comes with the job

    I don't know, you gonna have to try and figure out the usefulness, or not, of this little "poke" tool , that Sheeva has, using it "naked isolated" without canceling it into something, it's pointless .... it's kinda slow, I think the only advantage is canceling into b,f3, fireball, or, for a enemy in duck stance, blocking , you can link asap a canceled move into low grab, this last option, imo, is the most useful use of F3 .... since is very hard to obligate your oponent to duck, so, making him respect F3, and trying to block it low, will make you catch him in a low grab, almost immediately .... if you can cancel F3 into low grab very fast, I think the opponent almost cannot avoid , due the time windown frame to be very short to react, I saw that fuzzy guard is possible, but, is very hard, I see the AI doing it very few time, most of time, the AI eats and fall for this dirty trick ..... and in corner, it's pratically 100% sure to work, in middle screen, the adversary still has a minor chance to react due the space
  12. GGA Jeremiah

    GGA Jeremiah From 2nd worst to 2nd best

    In the corner d4 into low grab is way faster and it will work.
  13. yautjared

    yautjared It comes with the job

    Understood, so, I don't know the real way to use F3 + something, only thing I noticed and know, is that works cancelling into b,f3 or low grab, and is possible to be used as a minor tool for Sheeva .... if is aplicable against human opponents, or tournament viable, I sincerely don't know, hehe :D
  14. Espio

    Espio Shake, Rattle & Roll Staff Member

    PSN:
    Espio872
    forward 3 is slow but it has pretty nice range and I like to use back 1,2 fireball as it does 18%(22% with a jump in) and your opponent most of the time will either block immediately(setting you up for continued pressure, throw, mix up). If they try to jump away forward 4 or fireball timed right gets them. That's one of my favorite strings for her.

    Sheeva's really good imo, the only thing she really needs is a cancelable groundpound, Jax's groundpound does more damage, can be canceled, is comboable and can force an opponent into the corner.

    If she had that her mind games would get really scary.

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