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Shang Tsung Matchup Discussion Thread

Belial

Belial

Noob
ask your buddy to spam a bit normal fans . at full/3/4 screen you can duck mGS/fGS to trade with her next fan, but timing is difficult. at closer ranges its risky for her to spam ground fan since you can get a jump in punch.
f21 aint punishable, but if you do d+1 after you will force her into blocking, needs some practice too.
If you really get zoned out and cant get a grasp on the timing, just ex SS and make use of that damage boost.
 
E

eskuAdradit0

"Thanks" button abuser.
Belial said:
ask your buddy to spam a bit airfans . at full/3/4 screen you can duck mGS/fGS to trade with her next fan, but timing is difficult. at closer ranges its risky for her to spam ground fan since you can get a jump in punch.
f21 aint punishable, but if you do d+1 after you will force her into blocking, needs some practice too.
If you really get zoned out and cant get a grasp on the timing, just ex SS and make use of that damage boost.
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I totally forgot about ducking. And that comes from someone who likes playin as Kitana a lot.
Im gonna try to take that d1 advice. Problem is that when I ex SS or regular SS she just manages to stay away and eat little chip damage.

Is it really 5-5?
 
Fatality XBL

Fatality XBL

Red-eye Ragin'
5-5 Baraka - Shang can't really zone Baraka is this match-up anymore. Blade charge and especially EX blade charge are big threats.

5-5 Jade - This matchup isn't as one-sided as everyone thinks it is, Shang can still zone her you just have to take risks. Could be 4-6 but definitely not 3-7.

5-5 Jax - Shang can't zone Jax either. Jax will dash punch and always try to get in on Shang, his EX dash punch is also a big threat. I particularly don't like this matchup as Shang.

4-6 Johnny Cage - It's very hard to keep Cage out. This one could be 5-5 but I feel like Cage's rushdown > Shang's zoning.

4-6 Kung Lao - This matchup is not as hard as it seems. Good guessing and keeping Lao out is the key, punish teleports with D+1 to 1 12 etc, etc.

4-6 Liu Kang - Liu Kang's BF+2 is what you need to be aware of. You need to get zoning advantage as Shang or Liu will blow you up.
 
greeneless

greeneless

Noob
Fatality XBL said:
5-5 Baraka - Shang can't really zone Baraka is this match-up anymore. Blade charge and especially EX blade charge are big threats.

5-5 Jade - This matchup isn't as one-sided as everyone thinks it is, Shang can still zone her you just have to take risks. Could be 4-6 but definitely not 3-7.

5-5 Jax - Shang can't zone Jax either. Jax will dash punch and always try to get in on Shang, his EX dash punch is also a big threat. I particularly don't like this matchup as Shang.

4-6 Johnny Cage - It's very hard to keep Cage out. This one could be 5-5 but I feel like Cage's rushdown > Shang's zoning.

4-6 Kung Lao - This matchup is not as hard as it seems. Good guessing and keeping Lao out is the key, punish teleports with D+1 to 1 12 etc, etc.

4-6 Liu Kang - Liu Kang's BF+2 is what you need to be aware of. You need to get zoning advantage as Shang or Liu will blow you up.
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Personally I think every match up you mentioned is 5-5 except for Jade, which I would put as 6-4 in Shang's favor. All of the other characters are rushdown oriented, so shang has the advantage at a distance. The thing is, I don't feel shang has that bad of a rushdown game himself. I just can't see him being 4-6 against cage, or 4-6 against Lao.

I play kang though, so that's the match up I'll focus on. He can zone a bit with IAF, yeah, but against shang tsung that is going to be a mistake. Obviously, if you jump and get hit by an upskull its an automatic second upskull or possible combo into EX upskull. Low fireball won't do anything, cause upskull gives a knockdown on trades.

Kang has to get in, this much is obvious. You mentioned BF2 being a threat, and for anyone who doesnt know, that is kang's flying kick. It does have amor the entire time on the enhanced version. So, if kang wants to get in effectively, he has the option of taking chip damage in dash blocking the skull forest or wasting his meter on a flying kick to go through it. Flying kick is extremely punishable on block, and on hit it knocks shang tsung back to almost full screen distance again. It's not a great option for kang at all, since he wants to be in shang's face and throwing fists.
 
Sigmar

Sigmar

Ex Mortis
6-4 vs Baraka 5-5 IMO. New ex blade charge, but it;s hard as hell to get baraka off once he's in now.
3-7 vs Cyber Sub-Zero 4-6 IMO. You can catch CSZ out of his dive, but still a hard match up.
5-5 vs Cyrax
6-4 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
3-7 vs Jade 4-6 IMO. Can't zone the green hoe still not in shangs favour.
6-4 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage 4-6 IMO Exactly like LK match up, shang is good at a distance, GL when he gets in.
5-5 vs Kabal 4-6 IMO. Armoured EX dash can go right though shangs zoning, Gl when he gets in.
4-6 vs Kano
xxx vs Kenshi
5-5 vs Kitana
3-7 vs Kung Lao 4-6 IMO. Still really annoying, shang has the tools to stop him though.
7-3 vs Liu Kang 5-5 IMO. Lui doesn't need to get in, zoning is great, when he does t hough it's even worse for tsung.
5-5 vs Mileena 4-6 IMO. Same as KL, just more punishable.
4-6 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Noob Saibot 4-6 IMO. This match up can be REALLY hard for tsung, noob can't get zoned, and can counter his zoning easily.. can't really get in on him as he has the up knee.


6-4 vs Quan Chi
3-7 vs Raiden
xxx vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
7-3 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Sindel 5-5 IMO. Good zoning, annoying wake ups, can get stupid at a distance.
xxx vs Skarlet
4-6 vs Smoke
6-4 vs Sonya Blade
4-6 vs Stryker
5-5 vs Sub-Zero

i'll probably reconsider most of these soon enough... dont go on about how cage isn't that good, stop..
 
Sigmar

Sigmar

Ex Mortis
Primal Raptor said:
well really though if you thinnk about it shang is over rated. he isnt as good as ppl say he is. he is slow, his zoning is slow, and he has the biggest learning curve in the game. really hes not a good charecter
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wtf lol shang is an amazing character.
 
Fatality XBL

Fatality XBL

Red-eye Ragin'
Sigmar said:
6-4 vs Baraka 5-5 IMO. New ex blade charge, but it;s hard as hell to get baraka off once he's in now.
3-7 vs Cyber Sub-Zero 4-6 IMO. You can catch CSZ out of his dive, but still a hard match up.
5-5 vs Cyrax
6-4 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
3-7 vs Jade 4-6 IMO. Can't zone the green hoe still not in shangs favour.
6-4 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage 4-6 IMO Exactly like LK match up, shang is good at a distance, GL when he gets in.
5-5 vs Kabal 4-6 IMO. Armoured EX dash can go right though shangs zoning, Gl when he gets in.
4-6 vs Kano
xxx vs Kenshi
5-5 vs Kitana
3-7 vs Kung Lao 4-6 IMO. Still really annoying, shang has the tools to stop him though.
7-3 vs Liu Kang 5-5 IMO. Lui doesn't need to get in, zoning is great, when he does t hough it's even worse for tsung.
5-5 vs Mileena 4-6 IMO. Same as KL, just more punishable.
4-6 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Noob Saibot 4-6 IMO. This match up can be REALLY hard for tsung, noob can't get zoned, and can counter his zoning easily.. can't really get in on him as he has the up knee.


6-4 vs Quan Chi
3-7 vs Raiden
xxx vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
7-3 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Sindel 5-5 IMO. Good zoning, annoying wake ups, can get stupid at a distance.
xxx vs Skarlet
4-6 vs Smoke
6-4 vs Sonya Blade
4-6 vs Stryker
5-5 vs Sub-Zero

i'll probably reconsider most of these soon enough... dont go on about how cage isn't that good, stop..
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We have similar numbers, I agree with you mostly on the fucking Noob Saibot matchup lol. You can't really even EX g skull counter-zone him. He beats Shang at pretty much every distance. You have to be really risky and ugh, I usually just switch to Jax.
 
cR WoundCowboy

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
You make him come to you. I have always felt that Shang is a bad match-up for Sub-zero because he renders most of his game ineffective. Even before the EX soul steal got buffed, Sub could not trap him for long because if Shang reads an ice clone (especially in the corner) he can use the medium skull to punish for a full combo. There is enough recovery on the clone so that he cannot block. Basically, Sub's most effective tool becomes very risky against Shang.
 
Sigmar

Sigmar

Ex Mortis
Fatality XBL said:
We have similar numbers, I agree with you mostly on the fucking Noob Saibot matchup lol. You can't really even EX g skull counter-zone him. He beats Shang at pretty much every distance. You have to be really risky and ugh, I usually just switch to Jax.
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I honestly don't like to counter pick which is why i'm good at all the match ups not just a few even though it can get really tough.., but any ways.. i'd rather face noob then cage, kabal, reptile, KL and LK... probably even more people.
 
Sigmar

Sigmar

Ex Mortis
TsungSupreme said:
You make him come to you. I have always felt that Shang is a bad match-up for Sub-zero because he renders most of his game ineffective. Even before the EX soul steal got buffed, Sub could not trap him for long because if Shang reads an ice clone (especially in the corner) he can use the medium skull to punish for a full combo. There is enough recovery on the clone so that he cannot block. Basically, Sub's most effective tool becomes very risky against Shang.
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Even though you have to make sub come to you, it's still really annoying trading a skull for a freeze, REALLY ANNOYING.
 
cR WoundCowboy

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Sigmar said:
Even though you have to make sub come to you, it's still really annoying trading a skull for a freeze, REALLY ANNOYING.
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It is annoying, but in my experience, the only trade that Shang consistently loses is with the straight skull due to the awful recovery. As close as midscreen the ground skull trades in you favor, which means that usually Sub can get his freeze off but you are able to block before he can so he gets knocked down. Shang's skulls are slow, but so is the ice blast and unlike Sub, Shang can chip very well.

As for the matchups I have to say that I think Johnny and Kang are even, possibly in favor of Shang. The reason is that both of them have trouble getting in without major risks. Both of their armored moves are punished by full combo on block, which means that they usually have to go through the fireball forrest. Even if they get in, Shang's pokes are just as good as anyone's and they set up his pressure game. As for Kabal, I do feel that it could be even. He can't abuse IAf's and his dash can be risky because it is only armored for the first few frames. Even if it is not a 5-5, I don't see it being as bad for Shang as it is for other characters.
 
Sigmar

Sigmar

Ex Mortis
TsungSupreme said:
It is annoying, but in my experience, the only trade that Shang consistently loses is with the straight skull due to the awful recovery. As close as midscreen the ground skull trades in you favor, which means that usually Sub can get his freeze off but you are able to block before he can so he gets knocked down. Shang's skulls are slow, but so is the ice blast and unlike Sub, Shang can chip very well.

As for the matchups I have to say that I think Johnny and Kang are even, possibly in favor of Shang. The reason is that both of them have trouble getting in without major risks. Both of their armored moves are punished by full combo on block, which means that they usually have to go through the fireball forrest. Even if they get in, Shang's pokes are just as good as anyone's and they set up his pressure game. As for Kabal, I do feel that it could be even. He can't abuse IAf's and his dash can be risky because it is only armored for the first few frames. Even if it is not a 5-5, I don't see it being as bad for Shang as it is for other characters.
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Johnny is AMAZING up close on shang, it's hard as hell to get him off, LK doesn't actually need to get in on shang, he can out zone him..
 
D

DetroitBalln

tupac aint dead
Fatality XBL said:
5-5 Jax - Shang can't zone Jax either. Jax will dash punch and always try to get in on Shang, his EX dash punch is also a big threat. I particularly don't like this matchup as Shang.

4-6 Johnny Cage - It's very hard to keep Cage out. This one could be 5-5 but I feel like Cage's rushdown > Shang's zoning.

4-6 Kung Lao - This matchup is not as hard as it seems. Good guessing and keeping Lao out is the key, punish teleports with D+1 to 1 12 etc, etc.
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Shang vs Jax is 6-4 in Shang's favor.

Once Shang gets projectile advantage from a good distance, Jax is forced to spend meter to get in. I think EGP Tyrant would agree with me on this.

Shang vs Cage is 6-4 in Shangs favor.

Same as above

Shang vs Kung Lao is 5-5:

Mid up skull catches Lao out from his teleport

Close up skull catches Lao out of his dive kicks to get in

Lao can get out zoned with skulls/soul steal
 
1man3letters

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
[MENTION=442]DetroitBalln313[/MENTION]

what are your numbers and opinons on both the vs kang and vs kenshi matchups?

thanks:)
 
M

mekane

Noob
1man3letters said:
[MENTION=442]DetroitBalln313[/MENTION]

what are your numbers and opinons on both the vs kang and vs kenshi matchups?

thanks:)
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I'd like to hear this as well... I just played vs a Kenshi and it was horrific, I couldn't do anything, had to rush him down and shang isn't the greatest there.
 
M

mekane

Noob
DetroitBalln313 said:
Shang vs Jax is 6-4 in Shang's favor.

Once Shang gets projectile advantage from a good distance, Jax is forced to spend meter to get in. I think EGP Tyrant would agree with me on this.
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I watched your NEC matches vs. CD Jr, and it did seem like Jax was stuck at range. Is it the close up skull threat that keeps him out from jumping range? I also noticed CD Jr was unable to anti air your cross overs. This is where I believe the match seemed to be won for you as you were able to escape the corner, land a jump in punch combo, and not get comboed yourself, which would be the case if his d1 beats our cross over. Was your timing just better than his this time or is there something special about Shang's cross over punch that makes him hard to anti air with d1?
 
E

eskuAdradit0

"Thanks" button abuser.
We need a subforum to discuss every matchup with and without morph. Or a subforum to discuss morphing to every character.

C'mon, this forum is one of the most inactive here in tym...
 
bloodsport

bloodsport

wat
mekane said:
I watched your NEC matches vs. CD Jr, and it did seem like Jax was stuck at range. Is it the close up skull threat that keeps him out from jumping range? I also noticed CD Jr was unable to anti air your cross overs. This is where I believe the match seemed to be won for you as you were able to escape the corner, land a jump in punch combo, and not get comboed yourself, which would be the case if his d1 beats our cross over. Was your timing just better than his this time or is there something special about Shang's cross over punch that makes him hard to anti air with d1?
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if you try to dash in to a close upskull and don't block well you'll eat a 50% combo. i don't know what was up with the AAs though.

i don't know, morph isn't that well explored yet, and then a whole lot of stuff is situational cause the timing can be like half a second off and not work.

cyrax becomes like 9-1 for shang lmao. shang can do cyrax's reset by substituting the second net with SS, but sometimes you'll morph back at the wrong time :(
 
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