Match-up Discussion Pocket Medic - Alternate Character discussion for Smoke Mains

[FrothyOmen]

Want to briefly discuss possible alternate characters for Smoke that cover his bad matchups well, while still being strong in and of their own right (making them good tournament secondaries.) One-off counterpicks are not useful. I'm going to be picking up either Jax, Kenshi, or Freddy Krueger out of necessity for a secondary. I think. They seem to be the best choices, and my talks with assorted people this past weekend has reinforced this thought in my head.

I'm tired of being online as fuck, time to get good. Smoke players; who do YOU run as an alternate, and why? Do you run solo smoke, and if so why and how do you deal with awful matchups? If you have multiple alts, how do you prioritize your counterpicks when following winner=character lock rules? How do you decide when to bite the bullet and continue playing a tough matchup with Smoke instead of switching? Trying to pool as much info as I can so I can decide how to approach my training from now on.

 

[HD Smoke]

i feel like Smoke only loses to Kabal and Kung Lao in matches (maybe cage also) but like many say jax is a good back up for Smoke...cdjrs win kind of proves that. i feel like cage does well with kung lao so after watching curbo, reo, and maxter play cage im learning him as my alt.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Can you give any more specific reasons other than how you've seen other people perform? What about cage makes you want to play him over the "industry standard" smoke/jax bro team?

 

[HD Smoke]

Can you give any more specific reasons other than how you've seen other people perform? What about cage makes you want to play him over the "industry standard" smoke/jax bro team?

Its not a reason because of how i've seen others perform, i have played Jax since the fall mainly for Kung Lao and do wayyyyy better against kung laos than i do with my main since april. I perosnally think Smoke is better than Jax but jax's helps smoke with his bad match ups. My jax is not very good but he is who i use for kung lao. Kabal i dont beleive is as bad for Smoke....he still loses to Kabal but Smoke can still fight against Kabal, CDjr and KT Smith have proved that before. Cage though is just i character i have always liked and after watching him do so well at MLG and FR i am deciding to pick him up. I like Cage's playstyle better than Jax. My alt until Jax was Noob because Smoke and Noob are my favorite MK characters but Noob doesnt really help Smoke on his bad match ups lol. He is alright against KL i guess.

 

[HD Smoke]

i prefer Smokes ex shake, smoke away, and towards over armor but his bad match ups he loses because he doesnt have armor. Jax has plenty of armor lol

 

[iKritikal]

Rain

 

[The_SNKE]

I have 3 alts: Cage, Nightwolf, and Raiden

Nightwolf sounds like a whacky alt, but he used to be my main, so I still like busting him out. He does wonders against Ermac, who I have trouble with using Smoke.

Raiden I have for the Kabal matchup, even though I really don't know how to play Kabal. Nobody plays him in my area, so it makes it hard to train against him.

I've mainly used Cage for Jax, and just to train my footsies. I just find him so damn fun to use haha.

 

[smokey]

I currently use Sonya and Rain as my alts, but im really reluctant to switch, if im playing one of them its because i fancied a change of pace, not really to cover a matchup.

 

[RiBBz22]

Want to briefly discuss possible alternate characters for Smoke that cover his bad matchups well, while still being strong in and of their own right (making them good tournament secondaries.) One-off counterpicks are not useful. I'm going to be picking up either Jax, Kenshi, or Freddy Krueger out of necessity for a secondary. I think. They seem to be the best choices, and my talks with assorted people this past weekend has reinforced this thought in my head.

I'm tired of being online as fuck, time to get good. Smoke players; who do YOU run as an alternate, and why? Do you run solo smoke, and if so why and how do you deal with awful matchups? If you have multiple alts, how do you prioritize your counterpicks when following winner=character lock rules? How do you decide when to bite the bullet and continue playing a tough matchup with Smoke instead of switching? Trying to pool as much info as I can so I can decide how to approach my training from now on.

I know it sucks to go with the crowd, but I would say to start working on Jax and put Nightwolf on the shelf because they are really similar characters... aside from Jax's buffs like the ground pound cancel and faster recovering projectile added to his ridiculous corner game (daaaamn I am making myself want to pick him up now ). Sonya could probably work out pretty well too, or just keep using Smoke against Kabal as that seems more win-able to me now after the weekend.

Even though Jax is a trendy pocket character and it sucks to succumb to that, but it's just pretty much the way the cookie crumbles since the top tier are not going to have many bad match-ups. I am just sticking with leveling up my Cage for Kung Lao since I hate the way I have to fight against him with Smoke, and sticking with Smoke for the Kabal match-up.

 

[G4S KT]

The Cage v Smoke match up happened 6 fucking times in MLG top 16

me v master D
me v maxter
me v curbo
CD jr v REO part 1
CD Jr v Maxter
CD Jr v REO part 2

Playing Curbo's cage is something else. I felt completely helpless. I'm actually going to learn Kenshi now so I can have a strong rush down (jax) and strong keep away (kenshi) to compliment my main Smoke.

Now, unless I come up against Curbo again, I probably wouldn't go straight to a counter pick against anyone other than KL (which I did once at MLG; played jax v KL in pools).

But yea, I guess the moral of the story is that you don't have to go straight to counter picking because Smoke can compete with anyone if your footsies are good enough. BUT, it helps to have a strong rush down and strong keep away in your pocket when needed.

If I had known how to play Kenshi yesterday I could have beaten curbo and kept going.

 

[smokey]

The Cage v Smoke match up happened 6 fucking times in MLG top 16

me v master D
me v maxter
me v curbo
CD jr v REO part 1
CD Jr v Maxter
CD Jr v REO part 2

Playing Curbo's cage is something else. I felt completely helpless. I'm actually going to learn Kenshi now so I can have a strong rush down (jax) and strong keep away (kenshi) to compliment my main Smoke.

Now, unless I come up against Curbo again, I probably wouldn't go straight to a counter pick against anyone other than KL (which I did once at MLG; played jax v KL in pools).

But yea, I guess the moral of the story is that you don't have to go straight to counter picking because Smoke can compete with anyone if your footsies are good enough. BUT, it helps to have a strong rush down and strong keep away in your pocket when needed.

If I had known how to play Kenshi yesterday I could have beaten curbo and kept going.

Dry logic, even with the explaination.

If you counter picked him after he went 1-0 , he could counterpick you to go 2-1, And that goes for every matchup in the game, if you play on matchup charts and counterpicking then everything else might as well go out of the window.

 

[G4S KT]

Dry logic, even with the explaination.

If you counter picked him after he went 1-0 , he could counterpick you to go 2-1, And that goes for every matchup in the game, if you play on matchup charts and counterpicking then everything else might as well go out of the window.

hidden select. counter picking characters and stages is a very important part of the tournament dynamic.

 

[FrothyOmen]

My footsies are not up to par to be competing with Lao/Kabal as Smoke, so I need a crutch for the time being until I learn my fundamentals.

 

[smokey]

hidden select. counter picking characters and stages is a very important part of the tournament dynamic.

I know that character picking is. You should NEVER have to counterpick stages. Tournaments should have a standard stage pick to avoid the crap that comes with the stage length.

Again, your hidden select logic doesnt work, its still just going to come down to a second round counterpick to level it out, and then 3rd round counterpick to take the game. Learning your characters bad matchups and overcoming them is the only way you are going to beat counterpicking.

 

[RiBBz22]

hidden select. counter picking characters and stages is a very important part of the tournament dynamic.

His Jax looked really on point if he would have countered to that against Smoke/Kenshi after theoretically starting with Cage. But then again, with him not changing characters after the first loss to REO to get to loser's finals, he probably would have stuck to Cage against Kenshi anyways.

You played awesome though regardless. Great shit.

 

[G4S KT]

You should NEVER have to counterpick stages.

Why? You're a fool if you don't give yourself every advantage possible.

You played awesome though regardless. Great shit.

thanks man was cool to meet you. you too FrothyOmen

 

[smokey]

Why? You're a fool if you don't give yourself every advantage possible.

The stage picked should not sway the outcome. A standard stage, or at the very least, random select, should be a tournament requirement. You are a fool for thinking otherwise.


Should i have 20 friends with laser pens shine you in the face while you play to give me more advantage?

 

[G4S KT]

The stage picked should not sway the outcome. A standard stage, or at the very least, random select, should be a tournament requirement. You are a fool for thinking otherwise.


Should i have 20 friends with laser pens shine you in the face while you play to give me more advantage?

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw

EDIT: it's not like in smash bros and all 3d fighters the stage makes a huge difference.

oh wait...

 

[smokey]

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw

EDIT: it's not like in smash bros and all 3d fighters the stage makes a huge difference.

oh wait...

I worded that badly.

THE PLAYERS should not be able to control a factor such as the stage selected to swing the outcome of the match. There should be a set standard, or a random select. If random bites you in the ass then thats just bad luck.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Aren't there rules that state that if there is a stage disagreement, Tsung's Garden (Day) is selected by default? Or Kahn's Colosseum or whatever?

BTW KT Smith nice to meet you too despite only talking for a minute or two. Was too busy being mad at myself for my losses to actually hold a conversation. I remember the Raiden I lost to; it was Cerebru.The Kabal was relaxedstate.

 

[G4S KT]

Aren't there rules that state that if there is a stage disagreement, Tsung's Garden (Day) is selected by default? Or Kahn's Colosseum or whatever?

At MLG it was the higher seeded player picked first and then the loser of the round was allowed to pick the following stage, which I loved.

 

[G4S KT]

I worded that badly.

THE PLAYERS should not be able to control a factor such as the stage selected to swing the outcome of the match. There should be a set standard, or a random select. If random bites you in the ass then thats just bad luck.

MLG had great rules for stage select (above post)

REO did it to curbo. Trust me, if you had to play that kid, you'd want rooftop as well.

EDIT: FrothyOmen , REO and I were running kabal v smoke matches to warm up against master d whom I assumed would be using kabal and I was doing well against REO. I was only going to switch to Jax if he blew me up the first round with kabal (a HUGE benefit of having everything be first to 3, more chances to feel out your opponent).

Of course, he used sonya/cage so that was moot. Anyways, I guess the moral is use blax on kabal if your smoke gets toasted lol

 

[GGA Wafflez]

hopin' on that cage wagon...

 

[HD Smoke]

hopin' on that cage wagon...

CAGE AND SMOKE????

 

[G4S KT]

Fuck man, I should have busted out Subz against curbo. I should have taken a second to think between matches and I would have remembered that I also know how to play one of Cage's worst MU's.

Taking a break between matches to think is super important.