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Official UMK3:TE Changelog and Discussion Thread

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
I do I just don't think it is worth it…

What is the point of having a new combo that isn't practical and won't ever land in a kompetitive match?

You can end Shang's old 5 hit now before the last hit and it is a great mix-up/block string. He is pretty safe afterwards creating great mix-ups, he could then end it on the 4th hit, 5th hit or have his pop-up. The better idea would be to make non kompetitive characters kompetitive. What reason would one have to do any other combo? None, and he would now be kompetitive. Plus, that is already the case now. He has no reason to do any other combo already… The new one would never get used starting with a HP so it would remain the same? Shang player will just disregard this combo and play him as he is now, and going for his low starter combo in conduction with his pushdown game. Because it isn't practical, won't connect and isn't as conducive to rushdown game as a combo starting from a knee lift (low starter potential). Same principle as Kabal, all he really does is interchange combos out of his Knee Lift. He can start out of HP, but it isn't practical…

It's borderline pointless to give him this pop-up in this form opposed to a Knee Lift…. It just doesn't do anything significant to the character kompetitively…. There is no reason to change combos "just to change them", I thought we were looking at the bigger picture. Kompetitive play. It is titled Tournament Editon? Not Casual Edition?
Shang's pop up is the combo of choice on jump starters :eg blocked spin attempt, and as punishes for close range. Believe me, you're going to see it, but because it results in a lot of damage and setups, it needs a natural lessening of availability. Think MKII Kung Lao in MKT, you see his pop up all the time, but you also see his 5 hit kick combo a lot as well. Shang is going to be much better in this version, definitely dangerous. It's not done merely for variety, there's a selective method for making certain combos usable, and I like it.
 
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Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
I just wanted the record to show real quick, for people that don't know me because I'm new to this site and i stopped posting for a little bit that, if anyone, I trust @Konqrr and @Juggs judgement very much and on a level of its own. I have been good friends with these guys for a decade….. and we can discuss MK on a very high level
You're not new to this site if you posted on UMK, you paradoxically predate it! After all, you have like 2600 posts from UMK that are on here.
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
Shang corner combo, 4 hit pop up, JK, aaHP, Double Skull, JK, HK = 10 hits 55%, and this would likely happen if someone is trying to get out of the corner as an interrupt combo for Shang against counter pressure during run jabs, it also works against just about, if not every character. With a JPS it's 65%. If you make it a little easier and do aaLP in the middle, and JK, LK, it drops to 53%/63%

Vs Characters with more favorable collision boxes:

JPS, 4 hit pop up, JK, aaHP, Double Skull, JK, aaLP, Double Skull, HK = 14 hits 77%
 
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dubson

Noob
You're not new to this site if you posted on UMK, you paradoxically predate it! After all, you have like 2600 posts from UMK that are on here.
Wow i didnt realize it was all merged. Long live umk.com....

Ok... Wow. I am very excited to play with Shang.

Thanks for the posts Great @Shock ster!
 

umk_p1

Noob
hey guys, we've faced a little issue here in Russia, the deal is kabal's instant air fireball spam, it was discovered since the beginning, but no one cared... until now, it has become trendy, there were some casual matches here and one dude abused the move, the way he execute it is legit ( at first i thought it is not), the IAF is part of kabal's game and i like the move, the height, the pushback and damage, it is all good, the only thing im starting to doubt is it's spamability, the cooldown is too fast, doesn't it dumb the game down? what you guys think? should we stretch the cooldown? ...
(from about 05:00)

P.S.: it is literally instant so it hits almost every standing character
 

GetSpookd

#1 Enemy : Rust.
hey guys, we've faced a little issue here in Russia, the deal is kabal's instant air fireball spam, it was discovered since the beginning, but no one cared... until now, it has become trendy, there were some casual matches here and one dude abused the move, the way he execute it is legit ( at first i thought it is not), the IAF is part of kabal's game and i like the move, the height, the pushback and damage, it is all good, the only thing im starting to doubt is it's spamability, the cooldown is too fast, doesn't it dumb the game down? what you guys think? should we stretch the cooldown? ...
(from about 05:00)

P.S.: it is literally instant so it hits almost every standing character
Holy shit, was he playing on a stick/keyboard ? Those IAF are perfect. Tho it looks so god damn cheap that even if I'd be able to do them, I would feel bad for using them so often.
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
hey guys, we've faced a little issue here in Russia, the deal is kabal's instant air fireball spam, it was discovered since the beginning, but no one cared... until now, it has become trendy, there were some casual matches here and one dude abused the move, the way he execute it is legit ( at first i thought it is not), the IAF is part of kabal's game and i like the move, the height, the pushback and damage, it is all good, the only thing im starting to doubt is it's spamability, the cooldown is too fast, doesn't it dumb the game down? what you guys think? should we stretch the cooldown? ...
(from about 05:00)

P.S.: it is literally instant so it hits almost every standing character
Looks like he's using a KB, that's how IAFB spam looks when I play on KB at least. I would say it's probably not going to be as much of a problem because of the other factors involved with nerfing and buffing Kabal, but we'll see.
 

umk_p1

Noob
Holy shit, was he playing on a stick/keyboard ? Those IAF are perfect. Tho it looks so god damn cheap that even if I'd be able to do them, I would feel bad for using them so often.
actually it's a pad,the jump is mapped on the analog thumbstick down( for the right hand ) and the HP is mapped for left of the thumbstick, basically he does back-back - and pushes the stick diagonally down and left, we've discovered that even at EVO this key mapping is not forbidden and mk9 allows such thing either and technically sticks are 4 discret buttons
 

REO

Undead
That's called projectile zoning. And probably the only effective form of projectile zoning UMK3 has (aside from Sindel vs a small handful of chars). If that style bothers you that much, then just pick a teleporter to counter it. Honestly, UMK3 gets a lot of critic from certain players on how the zoning is so weak and it's not a viable core strategy to rely on to win games (excluding very few match ups). Not everybody likes to see the fast and furious rushdown gameplay happen in almost every single match up because it's not diverse, it's repetitive and doesn't cater to ALL audiences. And there are many players out there that want to be able to zone in a game and have it be viable at a high level.

If the walk speed wasn't so horrendous in UMK3, it would be easier to walk and duck under Kabal's gas blasts. You can do it right now, but it takes years. It's not a problem with the zoning. The game's movement without running is very poor and limited.

I still think UMK3 needs a zoner than can even play his game against teleporters. Then everyone will be happy.
 

Mgo

Noob
actually it's a pad,the jump is mapped on the analog thumbstick down( for the right hand ) and the HP is mapped for left of the thumbstick, basically he does back-back - and pushes the stick diagonally down and left, we've discovered that even at EVO this key mapping is not forbidden and mk9 allows such thing either and technically sticks are 4 discret buttons
you dont need double back for this. I dont know why this works with Kabal, Kitana , Liu And MK2 Liu but no MK2 Kitana
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
actually it's a pad,the jump is mapped on the analog thumbstick down( for the right hand ) and the HP is mapped for left of the thumbstick, basically he does back-back - and pushes the stick diagonally down and left, we've discovered that even at EVO this key mapping is not forbidden and mk9 allows such thing either and technically sticks are 4 discret buttons
That's very strange and should be banned.
 

umk_p1

Noob
That's very strange and should be banned.
my 1st reaction was the same, the only thing that could've changed my mind was Evo rules, eventually the player copy/pasted the evo rules which stated that if game allows you to do so, then it's ok and mk9 was the prior example and seems like mk9 does allow that. Isn't it so? mb there were some rule updates?
 

nwo

Noob
In Mame I know even a cheaper way to do them, of course its not legit though.

Whenever a Kabal spams IAF's at me, if I'm using Kung Lao it's a teleport to free auto-combo. The worst that can happen is your teleport gets shot down.
 

umk_p1

Noob
what argument would u use if i'll say that stick is a 4 button in one, technically there is a chance to fuck the input up, i tried to do back-back and almost simultaneously press up and HP on my hitbox, it is 50/50, it's not like two moves are mapped on 1 button with 100% guarantee iaf... i don't know, i had nothing to answer, seems legit, so we didn't ban stick mapping
 
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nwo

Noob
what argument would u use if i'll say that stick is a 4 button in one, technically there is a chance to fuck the input up, i tried to do back-back and almost simultaneously press up and HP on my hitbox, it is 50/50, it's not like two moves are mapped on 1 button with 100% guarantee iaf... i don't know, i had nothing to answer, seems legit, so we didn't ban stick mapping
That's what I was gonna say. You assign UP to HP also, so you just press back, back, up and its a guaranteed IAF. There's even a way to assign "not" a certain key I forgot how to do it. So if you FLIP, HP isn't activated. I hate to give people idea's though. lol

Edit: My bad, you assign HP to UP. I got it backwards.
 
"NOTE: Now knocks back if the popup hit is the 8th hit or greater. The hit reaction used is Roundhouse."

Does this mean human smoke's BnB no longer allows aaHP, jk, air throw? The 2nd popup in the BnB is typically the 8th hit.
 

dubson

Noob
That's called projectile zoning. And probably the only effective form of projectile zoning UMK3 has (aside from Sindel vs a small handful of chars). If that style bothers you that much, then just pick a teleporter to counter it. Honestly, UMK3 gets a lot of critic from certain players on how the zoning is so weak and it's not a viable core strategy to rely on to win games (excluding very few match ups). Not everybody likes to see the fast and furious rushdown gameplay happen in almost every single match up because it's not diverse, it's repetitive and doesn't cater to ALL audiences. And there are many players out there that want to be able to zone in a game and have it be viable at a high level.

If the walk speed wasn't so horrendous in UMK3, it would be easier to walk and duck under Kabal's gas blasts. You can do it right now, but it takes years. It's not a problem with the zoning. The game's movement without running is very poor and limited.

I still think UMK3 needs a zoner than can even play his game against teleporters. Then everyone will be happy.
Completely agree. Great post.

It is a HUGE problem with UMK3 and your exactly right and in order for it to really be the best possible 2d fighting game it can be it needs to regain, and retain this essential part of its roots like Street Fighter did. And more variety…

I actually believe Jax is and could be one of these zoners capable against teleporters.. I like what the reduction to the disable timer does for his zone game and when he does the missiles it slides him backwards which creates real problems for teleporters trying to punish him on reaction. And the reduction to startup on his ground pound will be great. Even in vanilla he is a very underrated counter pick to teleporters. Very interested to play with new Jax.
 
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dubson

Noob
actually it's a pad,the jump is mapped on the analog thumbstick down( for the right hand ) and the HP is mapped for left of the thumbstick, basically he does back-back - and pushes the stick diagonally down and left, we've discovered that even at EVO this key mapping is not forbidden and mk9 allows such thing either and technically sticks are 4 discret buttons
The problem with this is Hugely the button mapping. That is just absurd dude. I cannot believe for the life of me that they would allow that, and why it is NOT banned at Evo and major tournaments is just ridiculous. They need to address some grey areas with this, especially with a situation like this.

It Can be done almost as perfect as that with just a standard PS/Xbox pad setup because of the analogs if your Really beast with it…. been an issue here for a While… haha.
 
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nwo

Noob
The problem with this is Hugely the button mapping. That is just absurd dude. I cannot believe for the life of me that they would allow that, and why it is NOT banned at Evo and major tournaments is just ridiculous. They need to address some grey areas with this, especially with a situation like this.

It Can be done almost as perfect as that with just a standard PS/Xbox pad setup because of the analogs if your Really beast with it…. been an issue here for a While… haha.
You can even do it on stick, like a beast. I have a video from a year or two ago with not much practice and I was doing it pretty reliably. I can do it MUCH better now, after actually watching the video.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
"NOTE: Now knocks back if the popup hit is the 8th hit or greater. The hit reaction used is Roundhouse."

Does this mean human smoke's BnB no longer allows aaHP, jk, air throw? The 2nd popup in the BnB is typically the 8th hit.
Oops, typo... the knockback is on the 9th hit!
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
"NOTE: Now knocks back if the popup hit is the 8th hit or greater. The hit reaction used is Roundhouse."

Does this mean human smoke's BnB no longer allows aaHP, jk, air throw? The 2nd popup in the BnB is typically the 8th hit.
Probably a typo, it's the 9th hit. Right now a two or three hit pop up can still result in a few relaunch juggles, like Ermac can get 11 hits 45% with just popups (starting with JPS leads to one less pop up in his case), or finish out the last possible volley with a bigger combo and break 50%. Going for them is always a risk and requires some kind of skill so at least the fact that they are still there in a limited fashion I think is good, but they have been mathematically limited as to not prevent existing combos.

Some maxed out examples:

Sonya can max out with SUJK, HPHP, U+LP, JPS, HPHP, U+LP (8th hit), JPS, HKHK, HPHP, LP, B+HP for 15 hits 58%
Liu Kang: SUJK, HPHP, B+LP, JPS, HPHP, B+LP, JPS, HPHP, BL, LKLK, HK, LK - 16 hits 51%
Kabal: SUJK, HPHP, D+LP, JPS, HPHP, D+HP, JPS, HPHP, D+LP, D+HP, OTG Sweep 14 hits 56%
Sektor: SUJK, HPHP, D+LP, JPS, HPHP, D+LP, JPS, HKHK, D,F, LK, aaHP, JK - 14 hits 70% (a bit high but this is a bi-product of having the TPU link to the combo, this can be addressed down the road)