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Discussion in 'Noob Saibot' started by Hitoshura, Apr 23, 2012.
Your sig is perfect for this situation.
The dude bleeds grape kool-aid.
also, Hitoshura, you're human, man. Don't let such bullshit get to you, because it isn't worth the distress. I appreciate your knowledge and support of the board.
Has the battle between altaire and eko happened yet? I wanna know who came out the victor.
lol you people are so dumb i havent said a word and five alerts of you carrying a convo that i wasnt even apart of and had been apologized to hito and dave but you cant let go and enenera your trash so your input as to what you think is clearly on a different scale. I compete period i have a competetive edge and if you provoke me i get aggressive its my nature. I APOLOGIZED TO HITO AND DAVE that is the point how i went about the arguments were wrong so if the lollipop guild is done playing quire we can move on thanks
Everyone just let it be. Back on topic please
fallacies upon fallacis
shit just got real in this forum fuck everyone BLACKWHOLES FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ Noob players
Have you watched this?
What does 0:14 remind you off?
That is how ghostball should have been! Fast and with quick recovery.
yea that does look good but it also looks abuseable if it has no cool down
The only thing(s) that I think Noob needs:
Standing 1 from 11 to 8 frames
D+2 from 49 recovery frames to ANYTHING better than that.
Either make his Enhanced Shadow Charge recover faster than the normal version or possibly making his enhanced teleport less punishable on block (Sektor)
Old hitbox on Upknee.
Anything else (Armor especially) would pu
...This has to be a joke post.
You could give him ALL of these things, and it wouldn't solve any of his problems.
At least he's the most badass looking ninja.
Maybe in MK10...
i agree, an 8 frame standing 1 woudn t help. we have the 7 frame d3 and its still flawed. if not 6 frame its useless.
The upknee hitbox would be nice, true, but only for anti cross up and we can Njp for that (so it woudnt be better, just easier)
The d+2 beeing less recovery would mean diff juggles so its not like we need a better d+2, but we do need better juggles....
I saw that and got so pissed!!! than i saw brady´s kenshi reflecting crap and it ruined my day....
Reading the rest of this thread and on a side note... i ve seen Hito being douchy and i know he can be one if he feels like it but he behaved really well showing he is a good moderator.
I know life is kindda shitty atm 4 you man, and i heard the KTP about your father and stuff but i have to say you ve come a long way since the beg of noob´s forums and i think its really obvious...
***edited by Hitoshura***
Reasons: Additional comment made at the end of this post was unnecessary and could have restarted another flame war
In messing with the green explosion glitch more and trying to think of a way to make it viable somehow for future installments, UMK9 or MK10, I figured why not give Noob a parry that if he's hit, he counters and his next combo containing a shadow (b+1 or 21) would get the GE animation for an additional hit? This would help his midscreen damage issues, give him a gtfo me move and could easily be that Armor move he needs when Enhanced. The normal version would be exactly like his throw where the opponent gets dragged underground for about 8% damage and the opponent would recover at the distance after his teleport. The Enhanced version would have "Saibot" hold on to the opponents legs, allowing instant follow up with the GE combo of choice. Just a thought.
I wouldn't mind so much about the lack of combos/damage if he had good normals and pokes. Fuck the whole 'out and out' zoning idea they had for him. If he had slightly better recovery on projectiles and decent normals/pokes I would really love him. And fixing those fucking portals.
He has good pokes and normals in d+3, f+3, f+33, d+4, b+2, 1 and 12. He can chip the hell out of the opponent, set up an easy throw attempt or get out safely by ending a combo in upknee. His projectiles are garbage. I hardly ever use them. Noob's problem is his lack of damage and frame advantage. Due to his low damage output, it's not a bad idea for the opponent to jump out of pressure or just mash outta shit since he lacks an armor attack and true frame advantage on hit. His portals should always allow a combo if they hit, not this the opponent falls through, they're fine shit.
So it's been a while since I've played. Was in Vegas, but now PCS'd to Nebraska where MK is all but lifeless. I played every now and then with Flawedzilla, Nick T, Macc, and some others in Vegas, but working shift work prevented me from seeing as much of the scene as I wanted, and now that I have a steady schedule, of course I'm where no one plays.
But I digress.
I mained Noob for a good while before switching to Sub to stay competitive, but I still keep Noob around. But from what I've noticed (besides the last two pages of...yeah...that shit) no one as mentioned, or has barely mentioned his lows and wake up game, and too much focus on recovery frames and armor of shadows instead of hit frames.
In my opinion, things that would make Noob better are:
1) Make Charge and Slide + on hit. I think +4 is a reasonable max, maybe +5. At a minimum I'd even take 0. Leave the recovery frames alone.
While d+3 and d+4 are great poking, especially with d+4 being +12 on hit, there is no real reason to ever block low on Noob. Giving more viability to Shadow Slide at close range would allow it to be mixed up with Upknee in blocked strings, such as 212, without the worry of your opponent being at advange. This also gives b+21 (underrated string btw) more viability as the 1 is a cancelable overhead, allowing pressure mix up with d+3 and d+4 after blocked Upknee or Slide hit. Additionally, once (if) Noob corners an opponent, he has nothing to keep them there. Again, with the Upknee/Slide mixup, it allows you to maintain pressure to get that corner combo damage Noob desires and oh so desperately needs. This change alone makes his strings better without actually changing them and keeping them balanced in their current state. Specifically, since they have slow startup and 212 is a true high. Not to mention, outside of the corner, Slide stagers back outside of d+4/sweep range, but giving it + frames would allow Noob some room to breath or put on some dash d+3/d+4/b+21 pressure. It fits with his playstyle of taking off chips of damage (outside of the corner) periodically instead of large combos.
Oh, and it would also help his much needed wake up game
As for Charge....Fun fact: (corner) 212, UK, 212, UK, 12, UK, 12, UK, d+4, UK does 39% damage. Ending with Charge instead of Upknee is 40% BUT is punishable even on hit. How the fuck that makes any sense is beyond me. Sure, 1% isn't much, but for a character that already strugles for damage, I'll take what I can get. But why on Earth can I finish a full combo for 40% and get punished for it? Even though frame data says -4 on hit close range, I'm positive it's much more after something like this and in the corner. Like I said, I'd even take -+0 on this.
To me this makes sense without the justification. If I fucking hit you, I should be at advantage, not you.
2) Make EX Slide do...something.
Seriously, this move is worthless. You mean I have to waste meter to get the frame advantage I should get on normal Slide hit? Oh, it gives a knockdown...because Noob has such great Oki right? C'mon man! I have to blow 1 stock of precious meter (a.k.a. The "Oh god help me I'm Noob Saibot and constantly need Breaker because I'm getting my shit pushed in by rushdown characters" meter) for 10% and + frame Oki, of which Noob effectively has none of? I get 9% damage from 0 meter b+1214, UK CHIP! Get out of here with that shit. Make it low float or something. If all I can get is d+4, Upknee off of it for like 15% damage midscreen, I'd take it. If I'm spending a stock of my much needed meter, it should damn well give me something. And guess what? It would, yet again, give an additional pressure tool for Noob in the corner to make the opponent respect the low for fear of a d+4 Upknee corner loop. This move is otherwise useless outside of the dash crossover gimmick.
3) Armor on EX Teleslam.
You want your armor? Put it here, not shadows. This helps Noob in two ways. It helps his wake up game, and because Kabal bodies Noob for free. No. Seriously. Tell me how a character that is primarily based around zoning....gets outzoned? This change, in conjunction with change #1 on my list, would help this fight quite a bit, without going over the top. It would still be in Kabal's favor, but it would allow Noob to do something besides build meter for Breaker and pray for the best. He could armor through iAGB and attempt to put pressure on Kabal instead. Kabal's greatest strength is his ability to dynamically keep the match at his own pace, whether its merciless rushdown, or iAGB/Blade zoning.
As for wake up, Noob has what, Upknee and hope the opponent doesn't have me in the corner and/or within range to jump over my Upknee attempt? Slide, as we've established, is terrible. Teleslam as is you can get knocked out of. Upknee can be jumped over due to the original hitbox change. So what are we supposed to do? Wake up block? This is actually the part that makes having both #1 change and this change kind of hard to justify because it would make Noob's wake up game very good. So you would kinda need a happy medium. But it would cost meter, and considering this game thrives on meter management, I don't think it would be terribly broken.
Actually, that last line adds justification to #2. If this game is all about the risk vs. reward of meter management, why is Noob so constrained to save for Breaker and see how things go?
Anyways, those are my ideas. Take it for what its worth. Personally, I would take #1 by itself and make it work. #2 and #3 would just be bonus.
I just read through this whole thread and it was the most entertaining thread ever.
Oh and to stay on topic, Noob needs buffs.
This thread gave me heartache from
-utterly rude, condescending comments.
-laughing at entertaining arguments between respectful conversation.
As for some suggestions, ive made my own quite a while ago, tho due to my "absence" they have not appeared.
Ill lend you some nice ones in my stead.
EX slide being able to do something isn't really necessary, but it would be cool to see it pop the opponent up more to add to a combo.
Noobs projectile advantage/ disadvantage on hit varies from where the opponent is on the screen. Whats weird about charge is that its -5 but it knocks the opponent down so in reality ur not really at disadvantage. HOWEVER with slide u are at disadvantage...HORRIBLE disadvantage b/c it doesnt knock the opponent down.
Idk about u guys but if u can a shadow clone of yourself ram into someones shin at a high speed im pretty sure the opponent should hit the floor...just saying
Armor on his EX teleslam has always been a good idea. These thing you mentioned have been discussed in other threads actually and #2 and 3 were discussed in the first noob saibot buffs thread I made a few months back. Although its always good to repost ideas to keep the flow of thread convo's going.
Like I said, its been a while since I've played consistantly, but I want to get back into it. I still remember all my setups and lots of tricks that I've still yet to see. I need to invest in a video capture card....
All I'm saying is for the cost of EX slide, it could do a little more than it currently does. It's not worth the meter whatsoever. My example with charge is where the negative frames are the most prominent. I still find it absurd, and would at the very least like it at 0 so I don't get punished for completing a combo.
I agree with slide. Every other slide in the game knocks down...Noob's gives negative frames on hit. How that makes any sense I'll never know.
Oh yeah, think I saw some people saying make 1 faster? Why not 2? Would make 212 a great punisher.
Don't you dare say it would make him broken either. Sektor has a 6 frame 1 and 7 strings that start with 1....
Or am I incorrect that the frames of a 1 or 2 effect a whole string?