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Let's Optimize GL Further!

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
As seen, GL got another top 8! Great! But we need to find a way to further optimize the character so that this keeps happening as time goes on. We need ideas going on how we can improve our chances. GL is a great character, and I personally feel like the character doesn't lose anything that hard (Even though we saw GL get taken down by 2 characters believed to beat GL, I feel @Orochi had shots to do some things better and to me I feel like he missed them).

So with that said, let's run through some ideas. I have a few, so let's start it off.

-I feel like MB oa is so important...way more than we currently see. The move gives us huge + frames on block, and knocks the opponent closer to us on hit (and if we're close enough, we should always net 35+%). And I feel in the matchups where we need to get in fast, it's probably our best move. And as people start getting down backdashing b13, b1 xx MB oa will become much more vital for us in the footsies game. Obviously the move gets recognition from us, but I don't think we've really noted its importance just yet. And I feel like it can shift matchups away from as much disadvantage for us. Not to our advantage, but at least even.

-GL's damage is really good, and he easily sets up guaranteed interactables for the most part. And I feel like we need to start playing around that more. I know we have trait LM oki, but when we can get 40-70% by just finishing out the combo or setting up the interactable, why not? And we should use the meter often to convert. Off of a ranged MB oa, we can get 47% for 2 bars. It's great. Like we should be doing that. Especially when we have two HKD enders (LM and 223) that still put us in a solid position for offense, anyway. And I think with the trait LM oki, we should just cash in on our next opportunity fully instead of keeping things going. We won't know when we'll get that chance again.

-Abuse trait more! The property changes are really helpful, especially ones like the air rocket and turbine improvements...and the damage buff helps, too. We should be using this a lot, especially when we get trait back so fast and it lasts forever.

-Once backdashing b13 becomes a common occurrence, we need to start capitalizing on the fact that the opponent still has to be scouting this option. Use this as a way to set up things like b3s, walking into the opponent's faces, getting them hip to also paying attention to jumps for which we can bait out AA attempts and air oa, etc. b1 just opens up so much that we don't use.

That's all I have. Let's go guys!!!

@Fred Marvel
@Orochi
@MidTierHarley
@Ashenar
@Blackula
 

Fred Marvel

It's actually Freddy Marvel
we really do need to find some new tech/setups/ideas etc
i love mb oa but i get hit out of it alot and lose a bar for nothing, but i use trait air rockets alot to build meter and zone if its that kind of matchup and trait minigun as well
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
-I feel like MB oa is so important...way more than we currently see. The move gives us huge + frames on block, and knocks the opponent closer to us on hit (and if we're close enough, we should always net 35+%). And I feel in the matchups where we need to get in fast, it's probably our best move. And as people start getting down backdashing b13, b1 xx MB oa will become much more vital for us in the footsies game. Obviously the move gets recognition from us, but I don't think we've really noted its importance just yet. And I feel like it can shift matchups away from as much disadvantage for us. Not to our advantage, but at least even.
The interesting thing about playing GL is that he needs meter to get any damage -- so if you start preemptively burning meter, and your opponent recognizes this and plays defensively and lets you burn it, then you are constantly at a disadvantage in some MUs.

Character differences aside, you can see a big difference in the way say, Oxygen played Orochi at ToTFC (overly agressive, which lends itself to the MB traps), vs. how Jupiter played him or how Tom plays him (being patient, wait for him to blow his stock and respond appropriately).

Likewise everyone saves trait because they expect that opponents will block the zoning anyway, and they want to have the trait available when they need it to get full combo damage.
 

Ashenar

Just a slightly above average player.....
Since GL tech seams to come out rather magically after I play a certain someone and I see another GL doing it on stream I guess I'll unlock my actual setup's I have for certain characters and wake ups. I was going to hold on to them till CEO but magically all my stuff just seams to be fed to certain players.
 
The biggest thing i see is not maximizing damage. Inever see any GL players use background bounces at all and give him alot more meterless damage. Another thing is hitconfirmed off of f3, i always see players just hitconfirm with b13 but i nver get why. Yuo have plenty of time to do j3/j2 ir s3 mb oa. You get so much more damage than just doing b13. Also i see people punish moves when b13 when they can just do 22 mb oa f3 etc...into WAYYY more damage. But the biggest thing we need to do is work on anti wakeup game so people dont just wake up out of oki for free
 

The Great One

"I Always d1 Lif-" SHUT UP
The biggest thing i see is not maximizing damage. Inever see any GL players use background bounces at all and give him alot more meterless damage. Another thing is hitconfirmed off of f3, i always see players just hitconfirm with b13 but i nver get why. Yuo have plenty of time to do j3/j2 ir s3 mb oa. You get so much more damage than just doing b13. Also i see people punish moves when b13 when they can just do 22 mb oa f3 etc...into WAYYY more damage. But the biggest thing we need to do is work on anti wakeup game so people dont just wake up out of oki for free
Word.

Actually though can we find some anti wakeup tech? None of that "guess if they're gonna wake up. Bait and punish bullshit" what kind of oki/pressure game has the dealer of the setup guessing?!
 

Fred Marvel

It's actually Freddy Marvel
The biggest thing i see is not maximizing damage. Inever see any GL players use background bounces at all and give him alot more meterless damage. Another thing is hitconfirmed off of f3, i always see players just hitconfirm with b13 but i nver get why. Yuo have plenty of time to do j3/j2 ir s3 mb oa. You get so much more damage than just doing b13. Also i see people punish moves when b13 when they can just do 22 mb oa f3 etc...into WAYYY more damage. But the biggest thing we need to do is work on anti wakeup game so people dont just wake up out of oki for free
22 bgb f3 j2 b13 trait lm, never get to use it tho :(
 

Orochi

Scorpion Scrub
I actually have not had much time with GL to practice his MUs and Setups. Been so busy with work and tournaments have been so close together. I've basically played FR, then ToFTC then CW with no practice in between I've just been relying on his solid footsies which are sooo amazing. I'll def have more time between now and my next tournament which will probably be ToFTC and then EVO to try to figure all his options against specific characters and find an answer for MMH (Possibly pick up another character for his bad MUs).
 

Orochi

Scorpion Scrub
Since GL tech seams to come out rather magically after I play a certain someone and I see another GL doing it on stream I guess I'll unlock my actual setup's I have for certain characters and wake ups. I was going to hold on to them till CEO but magically all my stuff just seams to be fed to certain players.
Nice! make sure to put up some links for us when you do!
 

LEGEND

YES!
i think a discussion on GL's up close game and B13 is in order, so here are a few notes/personal opinions:

-B13 can't be backdashed or parried at max range, there is no gap at this point

-People backdashing B13 is a GOOD THING. How else will you open someone up? Raw B1 and lift their backdash on reaction or B1-Rocket and hitconfirm into MB

-The threat of B13 is more important than just throwing it out (as already mentioned in the op).

-now for my take on how to pressure with GL (which i basically stole from Denzell). After anything that leaves you plus, check with a D1. If the D1 hits you confirm with a follow-up grab or F3, the F3 acts as a counter to people trying to preemptively tech the grab and crushes most attempts to poke out, and if they just sit and block, the plus frames of the blocked F3 leads back into the same meta-game. Also, You can sub the F3 for a B3 if you read that your opponent will be complacent (so you can repeat + get the chip) and it will catch attempts at backdashing if that character doesn't have a long enough backdash to get away from the B3 (full list of characters that the B3 will catch would be nice)

Eventually they will want to backdash out, and thats when you start either going directly into B13, or waiting them out and lifting their backdash on reaction

F3 can also be used to crush counter pokes. So any time you are left slightly negative (like after a D1 or B13) you can use it to punish your opponents attempt at checking you. This is good since it doesn't require you burn precious meter. But, People will catch on and go for other (usually slower) pokes like D2s and other Mids that cant be crushed by GL's F3, in which case you will have to burn the meter or take a risk swinging while you are minus to counter that

The bottom line and biggest problem GL has imo, is that none of this works if you don't have the life lead. People will just block everything you throw at them and never even try to escape or attack back. This is why GL has such a problem Vs any character that out zones him
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Just my thoughts as a long time GL side main, and someone that wants to see this character do well
 

Fred Marvel

It's actually Freddy Marvel
What's funny is that Jupiter thinks its 6-4 smh
maybe im completely mistaken but if a 6-4 means a slight disadvtantage but very winnable alot of people on this site dont know what a 6-4 is/looks like

some good stuff in here just a few things i want to note
i think a discussion on GL's up close game and B13 is in order, so here are a few notes/personal opinions:

-B13 can't be backdashed or parried at max range, there is no gap at this point
yes it can be backdashed at ANY range and full combo punished by some characters

-People backdashing B13 is a GOOD THING. How else will you open someone up? Raw B1 and lift their backdash on reaction or B1-Rocket and hitconfirm into MB
NO its BAD THING because it forces us to use gimmicks that are also unsafe, if b1 minigun or b1 rocket dont work and youre eating a full combo

-The threat of B13 is more important than just throwing it out (as already mentioned in the op).
true

-now for my take on how to pressure with GL (which i basically stole from Denzell). After anything that leaves you plus, check with a D1. If the D1 hits you confirm with a follow-up grab or F3, the F3 acts as a counter to people trying to preemptively tech the grab and crushes most attempts to poke out, and if they just sit and block, the plus frames of the blocked F3 leads back into the same meta-game. Also, You can sub the F3 for a B3 if you read that your opponent will be complacent (so you can repeat + get the chip) and it will catch attempts at backdashing if that character doesn't have a long enough backdash to get away from the B3 (full list of characters that the B3 will catch would be nice)

Eventually they will want to backdash out, and thats when you start either going directly into B13, or waiting them out and lifting their backdash on reaction

F3 can also be used to crush counter pokes. So any time you are left slightly negative (like after a D1 or B13) you can use it to punish your opponents attempt at checking you. This is good since it doesn't require you burn precious meter. But, People will catch on and go for other (usually slower) pokes like D2s and other Mids that cant be crushed by GL's F3, in which case you will have to burn the meter or take a risk swinging while you are minus to counter that

The bottom line and biggest problem GL has imo, is that none of this works if you don't have the life lead. People will just block everything you throw at them and never even try to escape or attack back. This is why GL has such a problem Vs any character that out zones him
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Just my thoughts as a long time GL side main, and someone that wants to see this character do well