Konsider the Following: Ep. 2 -- Podcast Ft. LotF, King Hippo, Coolwhip, Saucy and Home Lee

[Tony at Home]

As for the discussion about whether NRS should listen to TYM much for nerf/buffs...

I think people need to stop bringing up Scorpion as an example of a character that was "over-nerfed' due to complaints. Like what you guys said with Goro, this character was never meant to work as a balanced character. He was made to be ridiculously OP so people would buy the DLC- and then once everyone had already laid down the money, they didn't need to give a s* and could just safely nerf him back to the netherrealm.

With this character, NRS knew exactly what they wrought.

 

[juicepouch]

As for the discussion about whether NRS should listen to TYM much for nerf/buffs...

I think people need to stop bringing up Scorpion as an example of a character that was "over-nerfed' due to complaints. Like what you guys said with Goro, this character was never meant to work as a balanced character. He was made to be ridiculously OP so people would buy the DLC- and then once everyone had already laid down the money, they didn't need to give a s* and could just safely nerf him back to the netherrealm.

With this character, NRS knew exactly what they wrought.

No offense but that seems like an awful lot of speculation. Was scorpion really that much better than supes or adam? I often wonder if the roles were reversed and superman had been a DLC with his dominant footsies and 70% combos if the same shitstorm would've followed, ya know? I guess my point is booster gold should've been dlc...

 

[Jim]

As for the discussion about whether NRS should listen to TYM much for nerf/buffs...

I think people need to stop bringing up Scorpion as an example of a character that was "over-nerfed' due to complaints. Like what you guys said with Goro, this character was never meant to work as a balanced character. He was made to be ridiculously OP so people would buy the DLC- and then once everyone had already laid down the money, they didn't need to give a s* and could just safely nerf him back to the netherrealm.

With this character, NRS knew exactly what they wrought.

If @GGA Saucy Jack's misinformation infractions went into place this poster would get a life time ban +20 years after death for this post.

 

[NB Semi Evil Ryu]

As for the discussion about whether NRS should listen to TYM much for nerf/buffs...

I think people need to stop bringing up Scorpion as an example of a character that was "over-nerfed' due to complaints. Like what you guys said with Goro, this character was never meant to work as a balanced character. He was made to be ridiculously OP so people would buy the DLC- and then once everyone had already laid down the money, they didn't need to give a s* and could just safely nerf him back to the netherrealm.

With this character, NRS knew exactly what they wrought.

 

[ZoO]

You guys flow very naturally with one another. More MK X hype

 

[Tony at Home]

What if I were to tell you, that as a statistician, it can be statistically proven that the strength of a character is not a variable independent of it's status as a vanilla/DLC character?

I'll walk through it.

There are 24 vanilla characters in Injustice.
There are 6 DLC characters
there are 5 "top 5 characters" that categorize the strongest in the game.

Because the ratio of vanilla to DLC characters, we can expect the top 5 will be 80% Vanilla characters, and 20% DLC characters.

Expected: 80/20
Observed: 60/40

*BRB will do the Chi Squared later**

 

[Doombawkz]

What if I were to tell you, that as a statistician, it can be statistically proven that the strength of a character is not a variable independent of it's status as a vanilla/DLC character?

I'll walk through it.

There are 24 vanilla characters in Injustice.
There are 6 DLC characters
there are 5 "top 5 characters" that categorize the strongest in the game.

Because the ratio of vanilla to DLC characters, we can expect the top 5 will be 80% Vanilla characters, and 20% DLC characters.

Expected: 80/20
Observed: 60/40

*BRB will do the Chi Squared later**

While that is a fair equation, you also have to consider before the 1.06 nerfs and buffs what the statistics were...
Who was top 5 back then? Memory serving...
Superman
Black Adam
Aquaman
Green Lantern
Wonder Woman

1.06 happened after all of the characters were released, if I recall correctly... So in fact, there was no incentive to buy DLC at that point and time. Lobo was low tier, Zatanna was low tier, MMH and Batgirl and Zod were considered "high tier" but no one began to perform with them, and we all know what happened to scorpion. So in reality, once all of the characters were out...

The top 5 was still 100/0 vanilla.
After 1.06, it changed. Up until that final patch, your theory about DLC being marketed as powerful falls short a month or two.

And even still, the top 5 isn't finalized. Hell, the game isn't even figured out yet. I do nothing but find tech, and even now, a year and a half later, I'm still finding new things with Bane. Some of them change MUs, some of them change the entire flow of the game. But still, I shouldn't be able to find some 130 techs with Bane, each unique in purpose and potential, and then still continue to find more and more. A year in a half in, I shouldn't be finding out Bane has P1 advantage vs Superman.... but we do.

So yes, for now, there is a DLC-dominant top 5. However, all of that is just one neutral shift away from changing. After all, we have two vanilla monsters (flash and bane) knocking on the front door. A single change, a single MU shift, and we could be seeing a DLC character drift out of the top 5.

Sorry for the rant, but when people complain about DLC saying its always made to be OP so people will buy it, it does bother me a bit because that's not always the case. Some characters do better than others, that's a fact that can't be denied. Some characters came in late, got explored further, and now its too late to change them. That's something we can't help, but its not something we have to just accept either. The game will die in a few months due to MKX-itus, but until then you won't see a day go by where the game isn't changing in some way, some how.

 

[Tony at Home]

Well, I'm willing to bet this trend will continue with MKX.

I don't want to fight about this, but feel free to bookmark this page in browser to look back on it and blow me up in a year if I'm wrong.

I'll even make it easy for everyone by being clear:

DLC characters are made to be better, and end up constituting a large portion of the top tiers as a result.

#NerfKenshi2015

 

[HomeLee1121]

While that is a fair equation, you also have to consider before the 1.06 nerfs and buffs what the statistics were...
Who was top 5 back then? Memory serving...
Superman
Black Adam
Aquaman
Green Lantern
Wonder Woman

1.06 happened after all of the characters were released, if I recall correctly... So in fact, there was no incentive to buy DLC at that point and time. Lobo was low tier, Zatanna was low tier, MMH and Batgirl and Zod were considered "high tier" but no one began to perform with them, and we all know what happened to scorpion. So in reality, once all of the characters were out...

The top 5 was still 100/0 vanilla.
After 1.06, it changed. Up until that final patch, your theory about DLC being marketed as powerful falls short a month or two.

And even still, the top 5 isn't finalized. Hell, the game isn't even figured out yet. I do nothing but find tech, and even now, a year and a half later, I'm still finding new things with Bane. Some of them change MUs, some of them change the entire flow of the game. But still, I shouldn't be able to find some 130 techs with Bane, each unique in purpose and potential, and then still continue to find more and more. A year in a half in, I shouldn't be finding out Bane has P1 advantage vs Superman.... but we do.

So yes, for now, there is a DLC-dominant top 5. However, all of that is just one neutral shift away from changing. After all, we have two vanilla monsters (flash and bane) knocking on the front door. A single change, a single MU shift, and we could be seeing a DLC character drift out of the top 5.

Sorry for the rant, but when people complain about DLC saying its always made to be OP so people will buy it, it does bother me a bit because that's not always the case. Some characters do better than others, that's a fact that can't be denied. Some characters came in late, got explored further, and now its too late to change them. That's something we can't help, but its not something we have to just accept either. The game will die in a few months due to MKX-itus, but until then you won't see a day go by where the game isn't changing in some way, some how.

But none of them were pre order dlc.....pre order has a lot more heavy marketing go for it. Expect commercials from GameStop dedicated for goro closer towards release

 

[Tony at Home]

I actually don't think Goro will be bad (as in 'too good') , because no one has experience with the game pre-release that is enough to really let them know what is OP and what's not in the game. So there's no incentive to make him too good in order to sell more, because no one knows what "too good" even is when they are pre-ordering before release. Everyone who wants him needs to lay down money before the games out, so they can't just buy him after learning he's ridiculous.

 

[Doombawkz]

But none of them were pre order dlc.....pre order has a lot more heavy marketing go for it. Expect commercials from GameStop dedicated for goro closer towards release

Pre-order DLC? I don't think I've ever seen a pre-order be OP top tier.

 

[HomeLee1121]

Pre-order DLC? I don't think I've ever seen a pre-order be OP top tier.

I mean what othe fighting games had pre order dlc characters lol

 

[Doombawkz]

I mean what othe fighting games had pre order dlc characters lol

Hm...

 

[EdFig81]

So as of now, out first ever episode of "Consider the Following" has received over 793 views. I for one am overwhelmed and thankful for the support and positive feedback. I know the rest of us feel exactly the same.

Episode 2 was going to be out much sooner but work had my nuts this week so my time was limited (I am sorry everyone...all my fault). This said...I am proud to announce episode 2 of "Konsider the following".

Last weeks vote was on the name of the show and the vote was in favor of consider the following! With some trash talk and some super fancy work from @Eric Z19 , we now have new graphics and a new spelling (with a K). Tell us and Eric what you think by tagging him thousands of times.

This weeks episode is full of blowups...will YOU get blown up? Oh yea...I hate hosting and I hate the sound of my voice...lol

Youtube

MP3
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/tauxarwjdjqob22/KTFep2.mp3


Massive shoutouts to my awesome co-hosts:

@KingHippo
@GGA Saucy Jack
@coolwhip
@HomeLee1121

@CrimsonShadow

@Pig Of The Hut
@Blind_Ducky
@cR_whiteboi
@GGA 16 Bit
@GGA Max
@Hysteria
@GGA pimpimjim
@Revolver
@Slips
@WoundCowboy
@Mr. Mileena
@K7L33THA

About 3 quarters done so far I like the format and lol at giving an infraction for talking about how long halo took to download the update ha

 

[HomeLee1121]

About 3 quarters done so far I like the format and lol at giving an infraction for talking about how long halo took to download the update ha

Dude.....they just don't know

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Also please change it back to Consider the Following. The K thing is overplayed and is not as good if it is forced.

How Inkonsiderate of you

 

[Qwark28]

next podcast you should discuss what is common knowledge among tymers when it comes to low tier chars

 

[coolwhip]

next podcast you should discuss what is common knowledge among tymers when it comes to low tier chars

We're open to suggestions so can you elaborate on this? I'm pretty sure you're implicitly referring to The Joker but it actually got me intrigued. Would love to talk about this.

 

[The PantyChrist]

Damn I just listened and realized I got a 7 minute shout out near the end. Thanks guys!

 

[Qwark28]

We're open to suggestions so can you elaborate on this? I'm pretty sure you're implicitly referring to The Joker but it actually got me intrigued. Would love to talk about this.

Figure out character specific stereotypes about low/mid tiers and discuss whether people know low tier characters are low by word of mouth or actual reasoning e.g why lobo was good after the patch and now not really that great, why grundy cannot play the spacing game when he only needs 1-2 openings, why could a random greek speculate that theres so much misinformation and plain lack of information that theyd be willing to spend 2k because it most probably means a red carpet into the top 8 as long as they don't run into 2-3 people tops e.g

" im playing xxacidresetxx and need to find someone to teach me the joker matchup"

"LOL GL M8, youre already in the losers bracket"

do people even know why hawkgirl is mid tier beyond "shes niche"?

and why are there only 2 top players per character, sometimes even just 1 or none when a completely new community blended in with the original one

 

[Big Pampering]

Also please change it back to Consider the Following. The K thing is overplayed and is not as good if it is forced. Also Also could i suggest inviting people who are usually not on Podcasts. Up and coming players and people of that sort to see what they think. After hearing the same guests on podcasts over and over from podcast to podcast it gets old. There are so many players on this site but you have podcasts only asking for the same few people to come on. Whats up with that?

Whats wrong about it? I think its pretty kool

 

[Slips]

This show was much better than the 1st. Some good topics with good discussion.

I agree this community self-destructed itself for Injustice. The 'Community Leaders' did not care about what was best for the game. They cared only about their own agendas and literally did whatever it took to win and give them the edge. Even at the expense of the game's lifespan.

-The stage picking rules were atrocious. Tournaments were severly altered because of this rule. And not for the better.

-The excessive and severe downplaying of broken characters. This isn't just Superman and Black Adam. The Sinestro push block bug being argued that it was 'ok' was insane.

-The scorpion debacle. #facepalm

Our top players are not people to listen to in this community. They had the power and responsibilty to help make Injustice a good game and make the community grow. Instead they used that power to bend the tournament rules in their favor and tried to warp the balance of the game in their favor. (In some cases, they succeeded in this).

This community needs new leadership. I don't know who, but Injustice was pretty damn telling they are not to be trusted.


The variation rule in future tournaments is interesting. My initial instincts was that the winner can change their variation after the loser picks their character and be forced to pick their variation first. But it makes sense the variation should be locked if that's what they won with.

It depends on how drastic the variations are.

If a character has a great zoning/runaway variation and in contrast also has a superb rushdown variation, then the variations should be locked.
If a character has a great/zoning runaway variation and their rushdown variation is just makes their rushdown slightly more adequate, then it should be ok to change the variation.

Ultimately we won't know until we get our hands on the game. But I think the safest bet to start with would be variation lock until we start understanding the game more.

 

[Maasik]

Being wrong is okay, being adamant about justifying blatantly incorrect information is an issue.

 

[PPJ]

This show was much better than the 1st. Some good topics with good discussion.

I agree this community self-destructed itself for Injustice. The 'Community Leaders' did not care about what was best for the game. They cared only about their own agendas and literally did whatever it took to win and give them the edge. Even at the expense of the game's lifespan.

-The stage picking rules were atrocious. Tournaments were severly altered because of this rule. And not for the better.

-The excessive and severe downplaying of broken characters. This isn't just Superman and Black Adam. The Sinestro push block bug being argued that it was 'ok' was insane.

-The scorpion debacle. #facepalm

Our top players are not people to listen to in this community. They had the power and responsibilty to help make Injustice a good game and make the community grow. Instead they used that power to bend the tournament rules in their favor and tried to warp the balance of the game in their favor. (In some cases, they succeeded in this).

This community needs new leadership. I don't know who, but Injustice was pretty damn telling they are not to be trusted.


The variation rule in future tournaments is interesting. My initial instincts was that the winner can change their variation after the loser picks their character and be forced to pick their variation first. But it makes sense the variation should be locked if that's what they won with.

It depends on how drastic the variations are.

If a character has a great zoning/runaway variation and in contrast also has a superb rushdown variation, then the variations should be locked.
If a character has a great/zoning runaway variation and their rushdown variation is just makes their rushdown slightly more adequate, then it should be ok to change the variation.

Ultimately we won't know until we get our hands on the game. But I think the safest bet to start with would be variation lock until we start understanding the game more.

DAYUMNNNN REGULATEDDD

 

[IMakeItL00kC00L]

This show was much better than the 1st. Some good topics with good discussion.

I agree this community self-destructed itself for Injustice. The 'Community Leaders' did not care about what was best for the game. They cared only about their own agendas and literally did whatever it took to win and give them the edge. Even at the expense of the game's lifespan.

-The stage picking rules were atrocious. Tournaments were severly altered because of this rule. And not for the better.

-The excessive and severe downplaying of broken characters. This isn't just Superman and Black Adam. The Sinestro push block bug being argued that it was 'ok' was insane.

-The scorpion debacle. #facepalm

Our top players are not people to listen to in this community. They had the power and responsibilty to help make Injustice a good game and make the community grow. Instead they used that power to bend the tournament rules in their favor and tried to warp the balance of the game in their favor. (In some cases, they succeeded in this).

This community needs new leadership. I don't know who, but Injustice was pretty damn telling they are not to be trusted.


The variation rule in future tournaments is interesting. My initial instincts was that the winner can change their variation after the loser picks their character and be forced to pick their variation first. But it makes sense the variation should be locked if that's what they won with.

It depends on how drastic the variations are.

If a character has a great zoning/runaway variation and in contrast also has a superb rushdown variation, then the variations should be locked.
If a character has a great/zoning runaway variation and their rushdown variation is just makes their rushdown slightly more adequate, then it should be ok to change the variation.

Ultimately we won't know until we get our hands on the game. But I think the safest bet to start with would be variation lock until we start understanding the game more.

Sinestro needs the pushblock tech back. Why? Cuz i want it back #NoBias