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Match-up Discussion KILLER FROST - Official Community Match-Up Discussion

teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Noob
Ne'er-do-well said:
No point in mastering it, imo. He has at least 3 different wake-up timing's and that certainly doesn't cover all them. We have to be very disciplined and precise with our combos to set-up the j1/j3 wake-up push punishes, imo. That'll be a big part of mastering this match-up in the future.
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It probably doesn't cuz it's very strict. But it's yet another option we have to blow his wake-up. I still believe b2 to be the best vs his wake-ups. It blows both the push and the low grab, can punish both, can block both in time if their WU doesn't get reversed, safe on block and we can even get TA out of it.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
teh_kingdunch said:
It probably doesn't cuz it's very strict. But it's yet another option we have to blow his wake-up. I still believe b2 to be the best vs his wake-ups. It blows both the push and the low grab, can punish both, can block both in time if their WU doesn't get reversed, safe on block and we can even get TA out of it.
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What, like using b2 to cross over to the other side of him or something during wake up?
 
teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Noob
RiBBz22 said:
What, like using b2 to cross over to the other side of him or something during wake up?
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Yes. I've posted that before. After the meterless vortex don't dash under, but do b2 and hold down ( to block if you mistime it). If you reverse the push, punish with b3 or mb b3 for 50%, if he does the grab punish with b1u3 or mb f3.
 
Sultan

Sultan

Kitana, Scorpion
teh_kingdunch said:
Yes. I've posted that before. After the meterless vortex don't dash under, but do b2 and hold down ( to block if you mistime it). If you reverse the push, punish with b3 or mb b3 for 50%, if he does the grab punish with b1u3 or mb f3.
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How does this handle the teleport wake up?
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
teh_kingdunch said:
Yes. I've posted that before. After the meterless vortex don't dash under, but do b2 and hold down ( to block if you mistime it). If you reverse the push, punish with b3 or mb b3 for 50%, if he does the grab punish with b1u3 or mb f3.
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Yeah I have messed around with b2 for a really long time now and thought it was just a bill because I couldn't get it to do anything besides get her to the other side. Seemed like most wakeups still beat it so I just chalked it up to being a gimmick.
 
teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Noob
RiBBz22 said:
Yeah I have messed around with b2 for a really long time now and thought it was just a bill because I couldn't get it to do anything besides get her to the other side. Seemed like most wakeups still beat it so I just chalked it up to being a gimmick.
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I think it beats many wake-ups. Also why a gimmick when it's safe on block and recovers fast and is mid. I think it's worth mixing up with the meterless vortex. Also do it from the spot you land after the meterless vortex ( it's a bit far). She goes above right when the wake-up window kicks in and the wake-up comes at the right side, but she is already on the other.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
teh_kingdunch said:
I think it beats many wake-ups. Also why a gimmick when it's safe on block and recovers fast and is mid. I think it's worth mixing up with the meterless vortex. Also do it from the spot you land after the meterless vortex ( it's a bit far). She goes above right when the wake-up window kicks in and the wake-up comes at the right side, but she is already on the other.
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Maybe I wasn't timing it right or something. I probably didn't explore it enough I guess. I was just getting wakeups to always come out the side I would b2 over to so I pretty much stopped there since I like using dash in after U3 to do the ambiguous j3/j2/j1 stuff.
 
Madog32

Madog32

PSN: ImaGiveItToUBaby
RiBBz22 said:
Yeah I have messed around with b2 for a really long time now and thought it was just a bill because I couldn't get it to do anything besides get her to the other side. Seemed like most wakeups still beat it so I just chalked it up to being a gimmick.
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She definitely has time to block and even parry after a B2 if timed correctly (parry not so helpful in this matchup, but it works...) But I do like the dash under and jump back/dash in punish you or someone posted recently. I've been working on that one the most
 
teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Noob
Here is a small demonstration of how b2 is not that hard to pull off and it's safe if you mistime it or if the opponent delays the wake-up (always hold down when doing b2) . You can record other wake-ups if you want, it works on most of them. Do the b2 after a short pause (about 0.5-1 sec) after KF recovers from the last u3.

 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
teh_kingdunch said:
Here is a small demonstration of how b2 is not that hard to pull off and it's safe if you mistime it or if the opponent delays the wake-up (always hold down when doing b2) . You can record other wake-ups if you want, it works on most of them. Do the b2 after a short pause (about 0.5-1 sec) after KF recovers from the last u3.

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Cool I will have to mess around with it more. I always wanted to use it because I love how you are right next to your opponent so you can combo after.
 
Sultan

Sultan

Kitana, Scorpion
The only problem I have with the b2 set-up, and I just tested it more in the training mode, is that a delayed reversal can come out in the proper direction. It's still super good though. Messing around with it more makes me a believer, just a little worrisome that the delayed wake-up variable applies.
 
teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Noob
Ne'er-do-well said:
The only problem I have with the b2 set-up, and I just tested it more in the training mode, is that a delayed reversal can come out in the proper direction. It's still super good though. Messing around with it more makes me a believer, just a little worrisome that the delayed wake-up variable applies.
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True, but there is no risk for us, KF is still safe even if their wake-up comes the right direction.

On the side note, against Cyborg, we can actually check him with iceberg in between IANB. Although it requires fast reactions and we do lose the trade ( 8% to our just 3% first hit of the iceberg), we do get to do 2 dashes which is HUGE.
 
teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Noob
Here is a quick demonstration. This works from half to full screen ( any closer and iceberg gets stuffed, plus close range slide is a better option ). Obviously Cyborg can stop doing IANB and block, but stopping his zoning or at least his perfect IANB is a huge plus to us. I recorded an IANB into jump, as I can't really do perfect IANB, it will require quicker reactions for those, but still doable.

 
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teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Noob
With that said and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole Cyborg beats KF talk about him zoning us with perfect IANB? Don't get me wrong, he does win the zoning game , but KF's tools are enough to either stop him or close the distance. I can't play an offline Cyborg, so I'll ask again for you guys to record some matches with good Cyborgs. I feel like a lot of characters underestimate KF, cuz of the lack of either MU experience or they simple haven't seen what a good KF is capable of. She has options and answers for nearly everything that can be thrown at us.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
teh_kingdunch said:
With that said and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole Cyborg beats KF talk about him zoning us with perfect IANB? Don't get me wrong, he does win the zoning game , but KF's tools are enough to either stop him or close the distance. I can't play an offline Cyborg, so I'll ask again for you guys to record some matches with good Cyborgs. I feel like a lot of characters underestimate KF, cuz of the lack of either MU experience or they simple haven't seen what a good KF is capable of. She has options and answers for nearly everything that can be thrown at us.
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P2W has a good Cyborg, but I haven't heard from him in a while. He just moved into a new house and has been MIA.
 
teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Noob
Well.. I managed to get 4 fine IANB ( hitting about KF's neck height ) and I was able to trade with iceberg in between and obviously get 2 dashes. I tested it full screen cuz it's the most troublesome spot for us and while it is hard to do, with practice and good reaction it's completely viable. It might not work with perfect IANB, I can't really do a bunch of those to test, but I feel it's a good thing to master in the Cyborg's MU.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
teh_kingdunch said:
Well.. I managed to get 4 fine IANB ( hitting about KF's neck height ) and I was able to trade with iceberg in between and obviously get 2 dashes. I tested it full screen cuz it's the most troublesome spot for us and while it is hard to do, with practice and good reaction it's completely viable. It might not work with perfect IANB, I can't really do a bunch of those to test, but I feel it's a good thing to master in the Cyborg's MU.
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Eh I don't feel like mastering it to be honest when I have a co-main ace in the hole like this

 
BigMilk

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
NW looking to grind/study this MU very extensively. Any help from Xbox KF players would be appreciated
 
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