Kenshi Frame Data

Discussion in 'Kenshi' started by Somberness, Mar 3, 2012.

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  1. Somberness

    Somberness Lights Premium Supporter

    How to understand this.
    Execution (singular | cumulative)
    1 - 10
    1,1 - 16 | 27
    1,1,1 - 12 | 48
    1,1,2 - 18 | 54
    1,1,4 - 12 | 48
    2 - 12
    2,1 - 24 | 38
    2,1,B+2 - 7 | 50
    2,1,F+4 - 11 | 54
    3 - 12
    4 - 18
    D+1 - 6
    D+2 - 14
    D+3 - 7
    D+4 - 12
    B+2 - 19
    B+4 - 19
    F+2 - 12
    F+2,2 - 20 | 34
    F+2,2,B+1 - 17 | 52
    F+2,2,B+2 - 22 | 57
    F+3 - 15
    F+3,2 - 19 | 39
    F+4 - 23
    U+4 - 26
    Throw - 10
    Spirit Charge - 8
    Rising Karma - 14
    Telekinetic Slash - 25
    Tele-Flurry - 21
    Blade Reflect (startup) - 6
    Spirit Vengeance - 8, 24 second hit
    Karma Eruption - 14, 38 second hit
    Telekinetic Blade - 25, 43 second hit
    Tele-Beatdown - 21, 28 second hit, 44 third hit
    Blade Absorb (startup) - 6
    Soul Blade - 25
    Soul Blade (full screen) - 42

    Advantage (block | hit)
    1 - 0 | 0
    1,1 - -2 | 0
    1,1,1 - 0 | +14
    1,1,2 - -13 | +36, +44
    1,1,4 - -4 | +44, +27
    2 - 0 | +8
    2,1 - 0 | +3
    2,1,B+2 - 0 | +55, +44
    2,1,F+4 - -9 | 0
    3 - 0 | +5
    4 - -14 | +4
    D+1 - -13 | +1
    D+1 (vs crouch) - -13 | -1
    D+2 - +3 | +37, +30
    D+3 - -7 | +3
    D+3 (vs crouch) - -7 | +10
    D+4 - 0 | +11
    D+4 (vs crouch) - 0 | +4
    B+2 - 0 | +45, +32
    B+4 - 0 | +24, +16
    F+2 - -10 | +4
    F+2,2 - -13 | +1
    F+2,2,B+1 - -4 | +68, +44
    F+2,2,B+2 - 0 | +45, +32
    F+3 - -9 | +4
    F+3,2 - -2 | +39, +22
    F+4 - -11 | +37, +24
    U+4 - -13 | +45, +53
    Forward Throw - N/A | +7
    Backward Throw - N/A | +11
    Spirit Charge - -10 | +19, -13
    Rising Karma - -17 | +58, +46
    Telekinetic Slash - -7 | +1 (vs airborne opponent ~+20, ~-4)
    Tele-Flurry - -3 | +6
    Spirit Vengeance - +7 | +46, +35
    Karma Eruption - 0 | +54, +58
    Telekinetic Blade - -31 | +49, +32
    Tele-Beatdown - -3 | +26, +22
    Soul Blade - -4 | +17

    Duration (whiff | block | hit)
    1 - 29 | 29 | 29
    1,1 - 49 | 49 | 49
    1,1,1 - 75 | 75 | 75
    1,1,2 - 94 | 94 | 94
    1,1,4 - 79 | 79 | 79
    2 - 30 | 30 | 30
    2,1 - 56 | 56 | 56
    2,1,B+2 - 73 | 73 | 73
    2,1,F+4 - 90 | 90 | 90
    3 - 35 | 35 | 35
    4 - 62 | 62 | 62
    D+1 - 25 | 25 | 25
    D+2 - 48 | 38 | 61
    D+3 - 20 | 20 | 20
    D+4 - 34 | 34 | 34
    B+2 - 43 | 43 | 39
    B+4 - 46 | 46 | 46
    F+2 - 49 | 49 | 49
    F+2,2 - 74 | 74 | 74
    F+2,2,B+1 - 83 | 83 | 79
    F+2,2,B+2 - 81 | 81 | 77
    F+3 - 44 | 44 | 44
    F+3,2 - 68 | 68 | 68
    F+4 - 54 | 54 | 54
    U+4 - 59 | 59 | 59
    Forward Throw - 36 | N/A | 126
    Backward Throw - 36 | N/A | 111
    Spirit Charge - 45 | 45 | 55
    Rising Karma - 63 | 58 | 38
    Telekinetic Slash - 52 | 52 | 57
    Tele-Flurry - 51 | 51 | 59
    Blade Reflect - 54 | N/A | N/A
    Spirit Vengeance - 45 | 44 | 39
    Karma Eruption - 63 | 65 | 45
    Telekinetic Blade - 52 | 101 | 65
    Tele-Beatdown - 74 | 74 | 93
    Blade Absorb - 54 | N/A | N/A
    Soul Blade - 56 | 56 | 484

    Cancel Advantage (block | hit)
    1 - +19 | +25
    1,1 - +11 | +31
    1,1,1 - +23 | +37
    1,1,2 - +25 | +74, +82
    1,1,4 - +23 | +71, +54
    2 - +25 | +24
    2,1 - +22 | +16
    2,1,B+2 - +5 | +56, +45
    3 - +25 | +26
    4 - +16 | +34
    D+1 - +1 | +15
    D+1 (vs crouch) - +1 | +13
    D+3 - +2 | +12
    D+3 (vs crouch) - +2 | +19
    D+4 - +25 | +31
    D+4 (vs crouch) - +25 | +24
    F+2 - +25 | +39
    F+2,2 - +26 | +40
    F+3 - +15 | +28
    F+3,2 - +14 | +55, +38

    Miscellaneous
    Breaker (when grounded vs grounded opponent) - ~+14, ~+14
    Blade Reflect/Absorb - 15 active frames
    Spirit Vengeance - armor on frames 2-17
    Karma Eruption - armor on frames 2-22
    Tele-Beatdown - armor on frames 2-24
    Soul Blade - invincibility on frames 1-2, armor on frames 3-47
    1,1,1 - 1 frame gap
    1,1,2 - 7 frame gap
    1,1,4 - 1 frame gap
    F+3,2 - 4 frame gap
    MAPUSA, Laos_boy, Espio and 15 others like this.
  2. NKZero

    NKZero Premium Supporter Premium Supporter

    Somberness likes this.
  3. Derptile

    Derptile Politically Incorrect

    XBL:
    Derptile
    Spirit Vengeance - +7


    I knew that that + frames on block, thanks.
    Somberness likes this.
  4. xInfra Deadx

    xInfra Deadx It's K-A-H-N, not Khan.

    Sweet. Frame advantage! So who's next?
  5. NKZero

    NKZero Premium Supporter Premium Supporter

    Lol wut? You mean frame DATA? haha that cracked me up for some reason...
    xInfra Deadx likes this.
  6. 1man3letters

    1man3letters OBS - Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator Staff Member Moderator Premium Supporter

    thanks somberness :D
    Somberness likes this.
  7. Tolkeen

    Tolkeen /wrists

    XBL:
    Tolkeen
    Thank you somberness, you just leveled up every smart kenshis game.


    Tapatalk, helping me procrastinate.
    Somberness likes this.
  8. LEGEND

    LEGEND YES! Premium Supporter

  9. Trini_Bwoi

    Trini_Bwoi Late night organ donor

    his block disadvantages are so good, my god
    STB Espio likes this.
  10. xInfra Deadx

    xInfra Deadx It's K-A-H-N, not Khan.

    Well...all jokes set aside, thank you Somberness!
    Somberness likes this.
  11. Wemfs

    Wemfs Child of the night

    XBL:
    WemfsFomer
    Steam:
    Wemfs
    I love you Somberness.
  12. NRF CharlieMurphy

    NRF CharlieMurphy Kindergarten Meta

    still the dumbest character in the game... WHY SO SAFE??? and armor :(
  13. THTB

    THTB #BlackRanger Staff Member Lead Moderator

    XBL:
    x THTB x
    Huh...charge is -10. So Reptile legit punishes it if it's nor like more than sweep distance. New ideas...
  14. salvificblood

    salvificblood Worst Sub-Zero Ever Premium Supporter

    He isn't safe.

    You get pressure off everything, and pressure reversal on his best strings as a Sub player. If he finishes the 112 string because he didn't hit confirm it, he's dead.

    That's why I've said all along that you just bait stuff out of kenshi, his pressure his worthless so you don't fear the pressure reversal, just block low. and then mash 22 after every f32, etc.

    You're not safe in this game unless you're neutral or positive after strings. Even spirit charge is -10 which means you don't need to fear the spirit charge up close.
  15. Tolkeen

    Tolkeen /wrists

    XBL:
    Tolkeen
    I don't understand how so many people can say he's safe, when his only plus on block is an ex move.....
    Those big numbers are all cancel advantage, so in order to capitalize on that I'm putting myself back at -10 or -17. If that's the safest this game has then we're all losing to the wrong characters.
    salvificblood likes this.
  16. salvificblood

    salvificblood Worst Sub-Zero Ever Premium Supporter

    Exactly. Seeing the figures confirms some of my suspicisions about pressuring kenshi. People think of full combo punishes when it comes to safety, ignoring pressure reversal.
  17. Huh. -10? how come reptile cant punish it at max range? Is there a different in ranges for spirit charge?
  18. THTB

    THTB #BlackRanger Staff Member Lead Moderator

    XBL:
    x THTB x
    Being safe on block is defined as unpunishable by any means after being blocked. Being negative is being at disadvantage, not necessarily punishable. You guys confuse terms way too much. >_<

    That aside, Kenshi atm gets away with murder in a number of cases, like f22b1. Also, charge's frame advantage changes depending on the range it's blocked. Also, TKS is actually pretty good on block. And 21b2 altogether is amazing.
  19. Joker8417

    Joker8417 Salt Proprietor of TYM

    PSN:
    Joker8417
    So true...all of it.
  20. Medina4life

    Medina4life Media Master

    I am too retarded to understand frame data.. Can some one help me please? I want to become a better commentator and need to know this stuff.. thanks :)

    Even though I don't get it, I know what you do is amazing Somberness , good job
    Somberness likes this.
  21. GGA HAN

    GGA HAN Team Manager, Team GGA

    XBL:
    HAN
    Medina, I can try giving you some help on Sunday or Thursday maybe, but as far as basics and how you can tell if something is punishable, just look at block advantage and execution frames...For example, reptiles dash is -15 block advantage (or at disadvantage) if you look at reptiles frame data. Now take kenshi's frame data and you can see that a spirit charge execution frames is 8, so it would cleanly punish reptile if you were to block his dash.
    Gengar and Somberness like this.
  22. Medina4life

    Medina4life Media Master


    O okay, I always understood the block advantage one.. But thanks for clearing up the execution part. Those two are important for knowing what is punishable, what moves can be punished, and how to punish others with your own moves. How important is the hit advantage though? All those other numbers I have a hard time understanding their importance
  23. Joker8417

    Joker8417 Salt Proprietor of TYM

    PSN:
    Joker8417
    Medina4life Hit advantage isn't really any different than block advantage, it's just on hit really, but it's important because it can determine your decisions in a match, I will use standing 3 as an example. If you hit someone with a standing 2 you are at +8 frames, so you can use spirit charge (which is 8 frames) which would be inescapable since your opponent has 0 frames to counter it.
  24. Somberness

    Somberness Lights Premium Supporter

    Hit advantage is almost the same as block advantage except it refers to the other character. It is not the frames before they can block, but the frames before they can move/attack. However, cancel advantage on hit is the number of frames before they can block when you input the next move in a string or link a special from it. It won't combo if it is the end of a string or a singular move that does not lift the opponent. Knockdown moves just shows the advantage until the first frame of a wakeup attack. Cancel advantage on block is kind of like a mix of hit advantage and cancel advantage on hit. It is the frames between the first frame of a cancelled move between the first frame that your opponent can move/attack.
  25. GGA Dizzy

    GGA Dizzy False Information Police Officer Premium Supporter

    To all the people confused about spirit charge, its -10 point blank, and its a projectile so the further away you are, the less disadvantage it is.

    Its not like a melee attack, where the recovery is different on block. The recovery for spirit charge starts immediately as opposed to on block, being a projectile.

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