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TakeAChance

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
RTM2004 said:
Sadly that is true. I've been getting my D3 and 1,2 blown up lately because they jump out of it or duck then punish. However, her Sweep is still very good. Jade is filled with gimmicks. I played a Jade player on XBL recently, he/she was the most gdlk Jade that ever walked seriously tech I've never seen before plus he/she did D1/standing 1 AA reactions online which is truly rare. I just think Jade has been explored entirely and all she has to fall back on are her fundamentals, reactions on reads, space control and her Ex Glow. Other than that, Jade is done at this point.
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Pretty much. Not saying she is doomed or anything, but the gimmicks are getting exploited. Jade gotta go barebone against a good opponent.
 
RTM2004

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
LolingOctopus said:
heres why I think Jade vs Kenshi is 5-5. Most kenshi I play try to zone jade since she cannot glow his zoning. So he's always aiming for full screen zoning. Heres the trick though, the second you have 1 bar of meter you get in. EVERYTIME. Full screen away? pfff, ex-shadow kick. Even if he blocks it, you're at 0, right next to him. D3 and do some pressure.

also, never break agaisnt kenshi, you need your meter and so does he. It's an armor fistfight.
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There is no way Jade/Kenshi is 5-5. It's 3-7 in Kenshi's favor. Kenshi controls the entire zoning screen with armor. Jade does not control the zoning, can't control the spacing, she can't trade her slow Boomerangs, her armor is only good for trades as her armor doesn't not control the zoning either. Ex Boomerangs get blown away by his wake-up invincibility.

Here's the advantage for Jade, she builds her meter only from the damage taken from Kenshi... if you're blocking all of Kenshi's hits then you are helping him build meter for armor abuse. Her Ex Glow and Ex Staff Slam works good against his trades /wake up attacks and armored trades (situational) only. All of Jade's normals/combo starters are very slow so her offense game against Kenshi is very, very weak he can just use Rising Karma on her jump ins and combo her, send her full screen or armor Spirit Charge her back to full screen. Not only that, Kenshi can Ex Telefurry if she tries to duck his regular Telefury and dash block in against his Slashing. As we all know, Jade's damage output is pathetic, she can't keep up with Kenshi's BnB combo damage and his heavy zoning, chipping her health away. At least Kitana (another bad MU character against Kenshi) has the high damage comeback factor 2,1~Ex Fan will grant her 50% combo or a lucky F2,1 launcher or Ex Fan outside his range. The things that hurt Jade the most for this particular MU with Kenshi is her low damage output, slow normals but she can do armored trades except it's difficult for her to keep up with the damage life lead. She can't stay comfortable anywhere on the screen if she has the life lead and Kenshi's ridiculous armor abusing comeback factor is too huge compared to hers (she doesn't have one).

If NRS restores her original damage which was nerfed, I may see it as 4-6, nothing more than that. Considering her original damage output was 40%+ like Kitana's standard BnBs and using meters can grant her near 50% combos then her X-Ray included gave her 55%+. Why the F-U-C-K did NRS nerf her damage anyway? Ermac, Kitana, Cyrax get to keep theirs while Jade gets screwed over, Reptile damage nerf was stupid but he has his abusing Dash to make up for it while Jade had her Up3 nerfed which was considered 'abusive' at one point. What a way to seriously fuck Jade over.

Anyway, you bought up a point, Jade should not use Breakers on Kenshi. She NEEDS the meter badly.
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
I'm interested in fighting additional Kenshi players, I haven't met a single one that changed my mind on the match up being any worse than 6-4 for Jade. If Jade didn't have armor to punish Kenshi's shenanigans...I'd be more inclined to agree, but she does have the means to make him pay hard for his meter usage.


I'm rolling with what Russell said and will continue to play out these matches and not worry about the theoretical numbers, which nobody really agrees on anyway...the numbers range from 8-2; 7-3; 6-4; 5-5 etc....so there ya go.

JustObserver said:
If you guess everything then you'll beat anyone. But who cares? Nobody can rely only on guessing in his games.
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This post confuses me..it doesn't apply to what i said or I'm just not understanding:confused:.

I know nobody can rely only on guessing to win, you need experience and such. There's much more to a fight than mere guesses, but good reads and proper spacing/countering make a big difference.
 
SaJa

SaJa

FH_FenriR
There were some delay as well that's why we dropped a lot. GG dude, I keep uploading ! ;p
 
CompletelyJaded

CompletelyJaded

Whiffmaker
As you can see somewhere in the 31st minute of http://hu.twitch.tv/montrealmk/b/317387933 this video, b3 ignores specials' impact frames on its active frames. Meaning you can pretty much just keep going in with it through spirit charge.

Edit: It's after the collision during 31:40 where Jade takes the round thanks to beating out a wakeup with b32.

Edit: Your Jade is pretty solid, Octopus. Good work there. Try to find a place for 23f2 too, I'm guilty in not using that string to its fullest potential either.
 
GambitTheFirst

GambitTheFirst

Just some bees, please.
CompletelyJaded said:
As you can see somewhere in the 31st minute of http://hu.twitch.tv/montrealmk/b/317387933 this video, b3 ignores specials' impact frames on its active frames. Meaning you can pretty much just keep going in with it through spirit charge.

Edit: It's after the collision during 31:40 where Jade takes the round thanks to beating out a wakeup with b32.

Edit: Your Jade is pretty solid, Octopus. Good work there. Try to find a place for 23f2 too, I'm guilty in not using that string to its fullest potential either.
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That was a wakeup reflect, reflect stops projectiles not normals =p Unless you're not talking about that specific moment?
 
LolingOctopus

LolingOctopus

Modest and humble genitalia destroyer
it was a reflect I believe. You can stuff spirit charge before it becomes active though (good luck hahaha)

the way I see kenshi is basicly a long range scorpion. Just guess don't be afraid. Rising Karma, block and dash 12. Spirit Charge? Jump and full punish. You have no idea? ex staff overhead or ex shadow kick. I'll update my post after work and give you the timeline whenever I'm on.
 
LolingOctopus

LolingOctopus

Modest and humble genitalia destroyer
http://www.twitch.tv/montrealmk/b/317366941

1:17:37 to 1:40:33 WNBA|TF Jer (Kenshi) vs TF|LolingOctopus(Jade)
2:00:00 to 2:05:00 WNBA|TF Jer (Mileena) vs TF|LolingOctopus(Jade) (terrible match I know nothing about this match up as Jade)
3:27:00 to 3:35:00 TF|LolingOctopus(Jade) vs TF|CaseyJones(SubZero) (just played terribly, I'm ashamed of posting this hahaha)
4:36:00 to the end TF|LolingOctopus(Jade) vs WNBA|TF Jer (Kenshi)

http://www.twitch.tv/montrealmk/b/317387933

0:24:30 to 0:42:00 TF|LolingOctopus(Jade) vs WNBA|TF Jer (Kenshi) Again! I love this matchup though
0:43:00 to 0:55:00 TF|LolingOctopus(Jade) vs WNBA|TF Zaf (Ermac)

enjoy the matches :) Next stream is this sunday, so more videos next week!
 
GambitTheFirst

GambitTheFirst

Just some bees, please.
LolingOctopus said:
enjoy the matches :) Next stream is this sunday, so more videos next week!
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Is there a particular reason why some people end their corner combos with 122? Isn't the knockdown on the second shadow kick just as good but (I think?) more damage?

Prinzmetal said:
Good example of getting in on Kenshi using en-shadow kick.
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They should know that's how you're going to try get in though. Bait, duck and uppercut (at least).
 
LolingOctopus

LolingOctopus

Modest and humble genitalia destroyer
GambitTheFirst

I like finishing certain combos with 122 since it gives me enouth time to oki for next setup

vs kenshi once they respect en-shadow kick you will see em duck. If you can make kenshi duck thats the ultimate sign of dominance :p (jk jk!) But if they're ducking they won't zone your ass so you're free to do whatever you like.
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
GambitTheFirst said:
Is there a particular reason why some people end their corner combos with 122? Isn't the knockdown on the second shadow kick just as good but (I think?) more damage?

I honestly just prefer it, the damage seems the same to me, I never noticed any difference of relevance. 90% of the time I end my corner combos in 1,2,2.

They should know that's how you're going to try get in though. Bait, duck and uppercut (at least).
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I still don't think ex shadow kick is necessary to get in, I've gotten in on Kenshi by ducking his teleflurries or downward slashes to whiff and then throwing out a regular shadow kick to score a knockdown, I don't like full screen shadow kicks.

I mean everyone has their own style that works for them, but I don't like using it because the damage you get off the meter use and the risk involved.

It's definitely important to mix up how you get in on him.

I only use ex overhead, ex glow and breakers in that match up.
 
Blackula

Blackula

I SEE EVERYTHING!
LolingOctopus said:
ps: from what I saw last night, Jade vs Kenshi is at least 5-5 in Jade's favor. Take this with a grain of salt, I didnt explore everything jade has to offer and I didnt face the best Kenshi player yet.
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Take this from one of the best Kenshis. Jade vs Kenshi is NOT 5-5. It is NOT 6-4. It is definitely a 7-3 matchup. The fact that she can't flash through Kenshi's spirit charge and TK slash are a HUGE issue for her. Kenshi is one of the few zoners that can keep her from anti-zoning. Kenshi is going to have all this meter from making Jade block and is always gonna have meter. If Jade can't get in, she's not going to be able to build up meter to glow. The only meter she's going to end up building is from the damage that Kenshi is going to be dishing out on her.
LolingOctopus said:
heres why I think Jade vs Kenshi is 5-5. Most kenshi I play try to zone jade since she cannot glow his zoning. So he's always aiming for full screen zoning. Heres the trick though, the second you have 1 bar of meter you get in. EVERYTIME. Full screen away? pfff, ex-shadow kick. Even if he blocks it, you're at 0, right next to him. D3 and do some pressure.

what to do when Kenshi is agaisnt the corner but theres a fullscreen distance between you and him? Bait a single move and ex-shadow kick 12 12 12 122. 25% on hit with a single bar of meter, I'll take that yes sir. If you're close to him ex staff overhead will beat everything since you both have armor and staff overhead leads to 27%~ (midscreen) 32%~ (corner) combos.

Now maybe I'm crazy, but back when I played Quan Chi, 15% for 1 bar of meter was godlike. So when I see Jade can do so much more I'm rather happy.

also, never break agaisnt kenshi, you need your meter and so does he. It's an armor fistfight.
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EN shadow kick isn't enough. Cause even if you block and you're at 0, that means he can also d+3 you right back. You better hope you're on P1 side to get that P1 advantage so your d+3 beats his d+3. Even then, Kenshi is most likely going to have meter so now you have to deal with armor and guess what, at some point, you're gonna get spirit charged right back across the screen. If you don't have a second bar of meter to glow immediately when you get in to pressure Kenshi some more, then you just wasted that one bar of meter getting in.

As a Kenshi player playing against Jade, I'm always looking at her meter because I know that if she has one bar, I need to keep on the lookout for glow.

CompletelyJaded said:
LolingOctopus It takes a Pig Of The Hut (aka Pigshi) level Kenshi to shut down a good Jade.
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Ahem. I guess people keep forgetting about Blackula. Please sleep on this Kenshi. :)
 
Blackula

Blackula

I SEE EVERYTHING!
I hate playing online because of MK's horrible netcode. I'm mainly an offline player. But what the heck, sure. My PSN name is under my avatar.
 
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