Match-up Discussion Jade Matchup Discussion Thread

[Arkayne]

Jade actually has several options against dash cancel.
Poke out. - after the string.
NOTES:
- Timing is strict.
- d3, 4, df2
- d4, 4, df4 df4. df3
- d1, throw.
Staff grab. - When he's in range.
NOTES:
- Timing is strict.
- Only use when you're with your back to the corner, to put him in the corner behind you.
Ex glow. - Nuff said.
Sweep. - Knockdown game, timing is strict.
Ex Overhead - Into combo.

No one said she didn't have options, ( at least I didn't) anyone with a brain knows she has options. She has the same options that any other charcater does. But when he can SAFELY do what he wants whenever he wants up close, that's the problem. Kabal can MAKE you do things to try stop him and he'll blow you up for it everytime. Thats why it's called a cancel. Do you think people would be complaining about it so much if it was that easy to poke him out? There is a reason why people don't just do pokes or moves while he is in the middle of that pressure.

As for ex glow, Meaty pokes CAN and WILL stuff EX glow inputs. Especially in Kabals case.

 

[Prinz]

How do you feel about Kitana? I haven't played for a while and yesterday, after a relatively long breeak, I fought 2-3 Kitanas and I really feel it is a 6-4 match-up. Even when Kitana gets in close I escape and kick her booty. The only problem was the damn flash input (bf3) which, when whiffed, cost me some 40+ % of health. Oh, yeah, same thing with Ermac.

 

[Past]

Change the raiden matchup to 7-3 in favor of raiden. Jade u3/glow strategy is completely shut down by teleport and Elec Fly. B2 doesn't work because fly is too fast. U3 is garbage against him. Only glow can help but then again its not guaranteed damage. 6-4 is an understatement.

 

[BoysBoysBoys]

How do you guys deal with Quan? It doesn't seem to be a 6-4 match up, she needs to fight her way through rune taps and trance, and when she's up close B3F2 is limited because Quan's F12 string has the same range

 

[TakeAChance]

With Quans, If they are not coming to you, then they are going to lose. Basically bait out the teleport. If they are not biting, put your glow on to avoid the skulls, dash block in. Once your in, instead of going for the B3,2 go for the 12. Keep the pressure on him with 12 and d3's. There isn't a whole lot he can do about it. Most of them will start to panic and go for the sky drop and the recovery on 1,2 is quick enough for you to block and punish. Play to your mixups.

 

[Arkayne]

I Have found that glow vs Noob Saibot and F+2,1,2. IS VERY GOOD. Especially mid range and a little out of mid because the forward momentum of the F+2 seems to work really well. Even if F+2,1 ~ is blocked and you have meter you can make it into a mix up. Being that EX boomerangs come back now on block.

 

[Arkayne]

Will any of you Green feinds be at Seasons Beatings? If Not. I will rep for our Lady.

 

[Prinz]

Will any of you Green feinds be at Seasons Beatings? If Not. I will rep for our Lady.

You go and show'em what's up.

 

[TheChad_87]

My Jade Matchups:

4-6 vs Cyrax
- The problem here is that if Rax lands anything, he can combo into Net. This is true against everyone, but for Jade it means a lot because she's capping at around 35%. He lands a Net, he gets 50% for 1 bar, You EN Glow on reaction you're burning meter to do 35%. It would be a 3-7, imo if not for the fact that it's impossible to hit her with a random Net. She uses Shadow Flash and can dance between Bombs. No need for dash-blocks.
5-5 vs Ermac
- I have a horrible time with Ermac and Smoke just in general ... I wanna call this a 4-6, but I think it's more me than the matchup.
4-6 vs Jax
- I can't fathom this being in Jade's favor. She has some trouble with Rushdown in general and now Jax plays a bit like Cage. EN Glows help obviously.
4-6 vs Johnny Cage
5-5 vs Kabal
- Jade takes away his zoning game, but he still has problematic rushdown. Not as bad as Jax of Johnny Cage, but I cant fine anything that would give either character much advantage.
3-7 vs Kenshi
- IMO, Kenshi and Raiden are her worst matchups. There's just not much she can do against either. Kenshi zones her all day and she eats it. Up close, he's faster and deals more damage.
6-4 vs Kitana
- iAF is a HUGE part of Kitana's offensive. Shadow Flash takes that away and well-timed UpRangs knock her out of Square Boost. Kit does massive damage, but meter only needs to ge spent on EN Glow in this match. Kitana doesn't have many bad match-ups, but I really think this is one of them.
5-5 vs Kung Lao
- I strongly feel like Jade goes evenly with Lao. I know this match-up quite well, though. So if anyone has feedback on this, Id appreciate it.
5-5 vs Mileena
- No way its in Jade's favor. She takes away Mileena's zoning game, which is good, but I still don't think she has anything giving her a real advantage. Mileena has quite slow normals; however Jade struggles to capitalize on this because she is slow as well. EN Glow is interesting her because Mileena is already highly punishable and so slow that most things you Glow in reaction to, you could have just blocked and punished.
7-3 vs Noob Saibot
3-7 vs Raiden
- Lol. Or we can call it 1-9. I HATE to play this match-up. Her Flash is next to useless because Raiden wont be using projectiles. B+2 makes Superman fairly easy to punish, but that's about all she has going for her. This is just as bad for her as she is for Noob, Sindel, & Shang, imo.
7-3 vs Shang Tsung
7-3 vs Sindel
- I play this matchup A LOT. Dan is content to call it 6-4, but I really always feel like I have the upper hand here. Staff Overhead negates her best wake-up option (EN Low Fireball) and grants Jade 30%. She wont be using EN Glow here, so she had extra meter to use toward EN Shadow Kicks. 3, 4, 2 will snuff out Step Up, even on wake-up in the corner, and THAT is the major reason I lean toward 7-3. If Jade can corner her, it's over.
4-6 vs Smoke
- I have a lot of trouble with this one. I wanna call it a 3-7, even, but I will admit that Smoke and Ermac are two characters I have more trouble with than I should. I do NOT think this is a 5-5. She cannot Flash through his Smoke Bombs. He can't be zoned at all. He also gets more damage up-close and doesn;t feel as slow against Jade because she's getting about 15f on attacks.
5-5 vs Sub-Zero
- This match-up is ALL about reads. She takes away his fullscreen Ice Ball and Shadow Flash makes it very easy to dash block into his Ice Clones. She can even Flash --> Shadow Kick and hit him.

The ones I didn't comment on have been discussed

 

[Prinz]

My Jade Matchups:...

I wish Kenshi was like Noob. True about Smoke and Ermac. The only thing you need with Ermac is experience. Smoke, on the other hand, has the damn shake, bastard...

 

[Shaylan]

Kenshi is NOT 7-3 guys.
It's 5-5 just fine. All you need to learn is where his "blindspots" are on the long range stuff and how to lock him down. Once you corner him, you've got him.

Raiden: His vulnerability is his lack of options and lack of speed. I'm beating him more consistently now. I can't really give tips on that yet because I'm still just starting to feel this matchup but each and every time somebody picks him and starts to do the teleport+combo thing, I seem to get them right where I want them. So they start to zone, so I bf3 and rush them down. So they teleport and here we go again.
Bottom line is:
Rush Kenshi+Raiden don't let them live and you'll win.

 

[Thead]

I Have found that glow vs Noob Saibot and F+2,1,2. IS VERY GOOD.

Flash then F2 is also pretty decent against most projectiles when in range, as someone pointed out you can just hold Foward after Flash and press 2 and the attack comes out.

To maximize damage on hit:
F2,1~Shadow Kick, dash, 12/4 ~ Staff Grab - 21%

F2,1,2 - Shadow Kick, Shadow Kick - 19% and corner carry

4 is a little easier than 12, but I prefer 12 as if you're near the corner you can follow with repetitions of 12 for even more damage.

4-6 vs Cyrax
7-3 vs Noob Saibot
3-7 vs Raiden
7-3 vs Shang Tsung
7-3 vs Sindel
- I play this matchup A LOT. Dan is content to call it 6-4, but I really always feel like I have the upper hand here. Staff Overhead negates her best wake-up option (EN Low Fireball) and grants Jade 30%. She wont be using EN Glow here, so she had extra meter to use toward EN Shadow Kicks. 3, 4, 2 will snuff out Step Up, even on wake-up in the corner, and THAT is the major reason I lean toward 7-3. If Jade can corner her, it's over.
5-5 vs Sub-Zero

Very nice advice about the Sindel matchup, didn't know 342 stuffs Step-Up even on Wakeup. Thank you.

Cyrax isn't so bad, of course he can deal big damage whenever he does connect, but the entire cast have that problem. Staying away from him and using Flash+Pokes/Rangs is his bane, quite hard for Cyrax to get in. You don't need to spend a whole lot of meter in this match, so breakers should see you through if he ever does manage to catch you. His Nets are punishable too from just outside midscreen with Flash, dash and Shadow Kick if he decides to be foolish with them. A fairly even fight in my experience. Would be in Jades favour if he wasn't so damaging.
-5-5

I really dont think people give Noob and Shang enough respect as Jade. Soul Steal is lethal as it goes through Flash and has awesome range, and if Shang juggles just once that's a lot of life gone without being able to breaker.
Noobs Teleport grabs Jade out of Boomerang, and if Jade gets reckless with Flash (I.e not Flashing on Reaction) Noob can time it so his projectiles hit as Flash wears off. His Enhanced Clones/Slides hit Jade out of Flash (albeit at the cost of a meter) and Upknee stuffs Flash no matter what. Jade obviously has an advantage in these matchups but it's not 7-3 hopeless.
- 6-4.

The Sub Zero Match I still put ever so slightly in Jades favour. It is a lot about reads as you say, but Sub is reading more than Jade. Jade near enough fully negates his spacing game with Flash, you just have to be patient (as a lot of the cast do against Sub) and be wary of that stupidly good 22 pressure.
- 5.5 - 5


What's everyone major gripe with Raiden? Yet to fight a very very good one, but backdashing away from him leaves him little options. Teleport is pretty punishable now, his projectile is obviously Flashed through, and Superman can be punished on block with Dash B1~Full BnB. Up close he seems fairly slow and can be poked out of a lot of strings.

Kenshi is NOT 7-3 guys.
It's 5-5 just fine. All you need to learn is where his "blindspots" are on the long range stuff and how to lock him down. Once you corner him, you've got him.

Shaylan, if you aren't trolling, please explain these 'blindspots' (nice choice of words) Kenshi has and how Jade can capitalize on them, and also how you keep Kenshi 'locked down' in a corner. A good Kenshi (and hell even medi-ocre Kenshis) ruin me everytime.

 

[Arkayne]

I made some notes below.

Very nice advice about the Sindel matchup, didn't know 342 stuffs Step-Up even on Wakeup. Thank you.

Cyrax isn't so bad, of course he can deal big damage whenever he does connect, but the entire cast have that problem. Staying away from him and using Flash+Pokes/Rangs is his bane, quite hard for Cyrax to get in. You don't need to spend a whole lot of meter in this match, so breakers should see you through if he ever does manage to catch you. His Nets are punishable too from just outside midscreen with Flash, dash and Shadow Kick if he decides to be foolish with them. A fairly even fight in my experience. Would be in Jades favour if he wasn't so damaging.
-5-5

I feel cyrax is a 5-5 as well. You basically made all the solid points except, you can c.3 or uppercut teleport on reaction. For all who do not know. I would say to just space cyrax. It doesn't seem like cyrax really has anything to beat out jade rushing him down. As from what my experiences look like.

I really dont think people give Noob and Shang enough respect as Jade. Soul Steal is lethal as it goes through Flash and has awesome range, and if Shang juggles just once that's a lot of life gone without being able to breaker.
Noobs Teleport grabs Jade out of Boomerang, and if Jade gets reckless with Flash (I.e not Flashing on Reaction) Noob can time it so his projectiles hit as Flash wears off. His Enhanced Clones/Slides hit Jade out of Flash (albeit at the cost of a meter) and Upknee stuffs Flash no matter what. Jade obviously has an advantage in these matchups but it's not 7-3 hopeless.
[

- 6-4.

I actually play a really good noob saibot. Noob's D+1 stuff flash on reaction. I also agree about shang, I've never played a shang until the other day and it was a game of cat and mouse.

The Sub Zero Match I still put ever so slightly in Jades favour. It is a lot about reads as you say, but Sub is reading more than Jade. Jade near enough fully negates his spacing game with Flash, you just have to be patient (as a lot of the cast do against Sub) and be wary of that stupidly good 22 pressure.
- 5.5 - 5


What's everyone major gripe with Raiden? Yet to fight a very very good one, but backdashing away from him leaves him little options. Teleport is pretty punishable now, his projectile is obviously Flashed through, and Superman can be punished on block with Dash B1~Full BnB. Up close he seems fairly slow and can be poked out of a lot of strings.

I find the problem is that Raiden can trap Jade really well. I've played against a few good Raidens and they will not superman randomly. It's weird it always seems like it manages to hit. I find B+2 into a Juggle is the better option ebcause sometimes B+1 floats.

 

[TheChad_87]

Looking back and playing a few more matches, I can definitely agree on Shang. He can hold his own here. Jade's slow normals have a hard time dealing with his F434, and as stated Soul Steal grabs through Glow. The good news is, Very few players know what to do after the Soul Steal. LOL!

Maybe I just have yet to play a Noob that knows the matchup (We Jade players are few and far between), but the Noob match-up feels like one of the most lopsided in the game to me. She has no reason to come inside sweep range and get hit by the UpKnee. She can pressure his nuts all day from sweep with Overhead and U3. Even a step forward into 4, F3.

The thing Cyrax has to keep Jade from rushing him down is better rushdown. 121 is 9f on start-up and can be cancelled into Net. 33 is 10f and can be cancelled into Net. I don't really see how she can rush him down when all of her attacks are so slow. She can't do naked Staff Overheads from range either because he can Anti-Air throw on reaction every time. I'm not trying to argue the point. I legitimately have trouble on the Jade end and feel confident on the Cyrax end, so I'm just wondering what it is that I am missing. Thanks guys.

Concerning SubZ being a 5.5 - 4.5. That sounds about right, too. I DEFINITELY don't see it being a 6-4. We pretty much agree on this one.

 

[Prinz]

Looking back and playing a few more matches, I can definitely agree on Shang. He can hold his own here. Jade's slow normals have a hard time dealing with his F434, and as stated Soul Steal grabs through Glow. The good news is, Very few players know what to do after the Soul Steal. LOL!

Maybe I just have yet to play a Noob that knows the matchup (We Jade players are few and far between), but the Noob match-up feels like one of the most lopsided in the game to me. She has no reason to come inside sweep range and get hit by the UpKnee. She can pressure his nuts all day from sweep with Overhead and U3. Even a step forward into 4, F3.

The thing Cyrax has to keep Jade from rushing him down is better rushdown. 121 is 9f on start-up and can be cancelled into Net. 33 is 10f and can be cancelled into Net. I don't really see how she can rush him down when all of her attacks are so slow. She can't do naked Staff Overheads from range either because he can Anti-Air throw on reaction every time. I'm not trying to argue the point. I legitimately have trouble on the Jade end and feel confident on the Cyrax end, so I'm just wondering what it is that I am missing. Thanks guys.

Concerning SubZ being a 5.5 - 4.5. That sounds about right, too. I DEFINITELY don't see it being a 6-4. We pretty much agree on this one.

In my experience the thing about Cyrax is that if the player tries to get into big damage combos with nets and bomb setups and bombs it's pretty easy to deal, but if the player is playing using normals, no setups and baiting anti-air, as you stated, it is pretty hard.

I think Sub-Zero dropped by 0.5 just because of his armored en-slide

 

[Shaylan]

please explain these 'blindspots' (nice choice of words) Kenshi has and how Jade can capitalize on them, and also how you keep Kenshi 'locked down' in a corner. A good Kenshi (and hell even medi-ocre Kenshis) ruin me everytime.

I wish you had PS so I could show you. It's more a gut feeling sort of deal, as far as blindspots go there is one a step forward from full screen, there is one f212 distance from him, and one right in his face depending which spirit move he's using. The trick is, like I said, that you need to start to force him to respond to you because obviously trying to respond to spirit moves is troublesome. And then you can bait his moves.

Locking him down is a matter of frames, your 12df4 and 4df4/df2 is faster than anything he has so those will always stuff him upclose.
- Jump-ins are good vs him if done right, and he's really weak against crossups, weaker than Jade.
- Ex Overhead is splendid because it stuffs his wakeup game.
- Boomerangs, all three, are excellent to keep pressuring him and then even if he doesn't eat the combo you can sweep+ex overhead Or throw.

Corner game has three aspects.
1. When you move out to mid-range blindspot and
a. u-3 either forcing him to block and then anticipate,
depending on whether he turned passive - to land a df4 into an ex overhead/ex boomerang,
OR active - njp or b2. Possibly high boomerang.
b. b2 if you anticipate his jump or him trying to spirit charge because b2 hits him out of it.
c. jump right unto him with ex glow and pummel away.

2.When you stay there and ex glow his wakeup into a combo and start the scenario over and
3. Let him overjump you for psychology and either throw out an ex boomerang to catch him into a combo or df2 him the moment before he lands, right back into the corner to have him throw his controller.

 

[Prinz]

Will any of you Green feinds be at Seasons Beatings? If Not. I will rep for our Lady.

Hey, man. Great represent of Jade. I can feel the pressure on you there Hitoshura sure knows his character, good stuff from him. Gotta do more flash wakeups, maybe trying to stay away and bait his teleport. I see you play more of a rushdown Jade, like me, which I like But it did pay at the end there with that upknee. Shit, man, very hyped for Jade in tournament play!

 

[Arkayne]

Hey, man. Great represent of Jade. I can feel the pressure on you there Hitoshura sure knows his character, good stuff from him. Gotta do more flash wakeups, maybe trying to stay away and bait his teleport. I see you play more of a rushdown Jade, like me, which I like But it did pay at the end there with that upknee. Shit, man, very hyped for Jade in tournament play!

But see, I had that match won. I was using THTB's controller and the analog got stuck in down position. I don't even use the analog so I'm confused as to why.

 

[Prinz]

But see, I had that match won. I was using THTB's controller and the analog got stuck in down position. I don't even use the analog so I'm confused as to why.

I watched the replays so maybe I missed something...

 

[Arkayne]

I watched the replays so maybe I missed something...

Yeah it was the second match and I had a round and he had a round.


Oh, I also have discovered Reptile might be one of Jade's worst matchups due to the U3 nerf. Hell, anyone with a really good D+4. Because now you can just Down 4 and U3 will whiff.

 

[THTB]

My pad is an older model of the PS2 pads. Those pads had issues with the analog sticks in that slightly jarring them causes them to stick slightly off neutral. Only way I fix it is by pushing them in and rotating them. My bad, Quentin lol.

 

[Prinz]

Yeah it was the second match and I had a round and he had a round.


Oh, I also have discovered Reptile might be one of Jade's worst matchups due to the U3 nerf. Hell, anyone with a really good D+4. Because now you can just Down 4 and U3 will whiff.

Actually the nerfing of u3 changed my game. I get uppercuted from neutral ducking for abusing it. So it's really duckable without any inputs.

 

[BoysBoysBoys]

Oh, I also have discovered Reptile might be one of Jade's worst matchups due to the U3 nerf. Hell, anyone with a really good D+4. Because now you can just Down 4 and U3 will whiff.

Not even that, but from what I know her biggest punish on dash is 4 DF4 dash D1 DF2. Dash punishes DF2 meaning she can't do a standing 4 which is one of her best pokes. She also needs to time her glow to not get hit by either acid spit, or forceball. Lastly, Reptile can end combos in that far away kick (Yeah, lots of Reptile knowledge right hereღ) into forceball, giving him more than enough time to react if you wake up with en glow or not.

I kind of like the nerf to U3. It allows me to use B32 for those who duck it.

 

[Prinz]

...I kind of like the nerf to U3. It allows me to use B32 for those who duck it.

LoL Really horizon expanding right? I was abusing this move a lot before the patch, now I'll have to take advice

 

[Thead]

Noob's D+1 stuff flash on reaction

What do you mean by this?

Also could you share or point to a link to some of your recent footage?

The thing Cyrax has to keep Jade from rushing him down is better rushdown. 121 is 9f on start-up and can be cancelled into Net. 33 is 10f and can be cancelled into Net. I don't really see how she can rush him down when all of her attacks are so slow. She can't do naked Staff Overheads from range either because he can Anti-Air throw on reaction every time. I'm not trying to argue the point. I legitimately have trouble on the Jade end and feel confident on the Cyrax end, so I'm just wondering what it is that I am missing. Thanks guys.

Cyrax has little options to approach Jade and is chasing her, while Jade can pretty much dictate the momentum of the match. She can walk backwards away from him while still being a threat with her pokes. If Cyrax does get uncomfortably close you have D3 and such to interrupt him and space yourself again. Just my observations of course.

You've been AA Grabbed out of Overhead from the TIP of the pole? :O Haven't seen that happen yet.

Will have to try your Noob advice out more and see if it helps. Overhead seems to get screwed by Dash Upknee for me. If Noob is playing patient it doesn't feel like I steamroll him at all.


Concerning Reptile:- He shouldn't be able to pressure you with Forceballs at all. They can be reacted to with Flash and punished with Flash-Shadow Kick. On wakeup Flash virtually nullifies his Oki with Forceball too. Jade takes away a decent portion of Reptiles game with the use of Flash.

Whenever I have the chance to punish Elbow Dash, I end with Shadow Kicks for the full screen push, sacrificing a bit of damage for superior position (fullscreen).
This match feels very much like a game of reads to me, from full screen Reptile HAS to get in, and you have to guess how he will. His Dash Block is too slow so he's restricted to Elbow Dash (not much of a restriction ¬_¬).
Checking him with full screen Rangs helps control the dashing, along with the rare Staff Overhead at just under full screen (can be used to catch Elbow Dash in and Elbow Dash~Jump in). Can't get careless with the Rangs, he can jump~Elbow Dash at nearly all distances - Which is where Up Rang comes in handy as it will catch most of his jump attempts (distance depending) and will still hit an Elbow Dash.
Reptile is fairly easy to bait into Ex Glow, as it is very likely he will attack when he's in.
Jade is still working extremely hard 4.5-5.5, possibly 4-6.