Match-up Discussion Jade Matchup Discussion Thread

[GLoRToR]

I don't really play this game much now

Me neither anymore. It's too shit to bother. Waiting for DoA5, it's only 3 days later in Europe so it's going to be a hype.

 

[JustObserver]

GLoRToR, i've got a lot of experience with one of the best Sectors i've ever seen, he's the Russian champion, so all i can say - it's damn hard, you should be as safe and accurate as possible. But, damn, since you play Jade you should be used to...

 

[Espio]

Me neither anymore. It's too shit to bother. Waiting for DoA5, it's only 3 days later in Europe so it's going to be a hype.

Good luck buddy . I'm just over it, I'll play it here and there, but I'm not as focused on it now...

DOA5 looks promising.

 

[GLoRToR]

JustObserver Yeah, that's what Jade's game is about. And tbh I'm sick of working hard uphill for below average performance. Whoever designed Jade needs a Jade+Cage XRay treatment.

 

[BillStickers]

Having trouble with the Kano matchup. I only play online so that probably has something to do with it. Still:

• Every time I SF'd on reaction to his knife, he could still land a second one as I'm coming out of SF.
• I had no idea what to do about his F11 pressure.
• I couldn't get away from him once he was in on me.
• Kano gets in very easily. Throwing a single boomerang at full screen had me eating either an airball or dealing with immediate pressure after jump-over B112.
• Some of his normals beat her d3.
• I was getting crossed over like a bitch and having to deal with all of his mixups. Is there anything less committal than NJP for punishing crossup abuse?

I was glad to see that TaC at least had this at 4-6 at one point, but I want to know what the 5-5ers think about this MU and what you all do in it. STB Espio AestheticLove

 

[GLoRToR]

Having trouble with the Kano matchup. I only play online so that probably has something to do with it. Still:

• Every time I SF'd on reaction to his knife, he could still land a second one as I'm coming out of SF.
• BF3DF1BLK. BF3DF3BLK. You need to block after each of your own projectile.
• I had no idea what to do about his F11 pressure.
• D1,DF2, anticipate upball by backdash B2. If he catches on and charges in, DB2 into combo
• I couldn't get away from him once he was in on me.
• More info on that please. What were you trying to do?
• Kano gets in very easily. Throwing a single boomerang at full screen had me eating either an airball or dealing with immediate pressure after jump-over B112.
• You threw the boomerang at the wrong time and the wrong boomerang. Fullscreen you throw a low and bait his jump and throw a high. You can pretty much demolish Kano from fullscreen all he can do is armor in with the /\-ball and you can block and njp that.
• Some of his normals beat her d3.
• A lot of things beat D3 but it's true by mechanics that if you hit with D3, you get free pressure.
• I was getting crossed over like a bitch and having to deal with all of his mixups. Is there anything less committal than NJP for punishing crossup abuse?
• EnGLOW.

I was glad to see that TaC at least had this at 4-6 at one point, but I want to know what the 5-5ers think about this MU and what you all do in it.
I keep him out and make him beg for space. And when he tries anything other than stay out, I armor him for 35% + reset or blockstring, then back out nice and slowly again.

EDIT: What you need to understand is that Jade has a line in the sand with B2 and DB2. What I did to understand it is take a piece of paper, make a stickfigure of Jade and mark her hit levels. You'll soon understand that she has a "forcefield" that is the staff. The reason why this is not obvious is that people know this even instinctively and these moves are easy to blow up if not used spot-on.
Once you understand her keepout mixup, you're one step up.
When to use:
B2 - They jump in from full distance, cross the line trying to rush you down with a long range move, or are trying to footsie you. The response to a lot of stationary strings like cage's F3 is BB,B2.
DF4 - Keepout tool. Conditions them to duck or jump. Abuse the hell out of it and if they uppercut-savvy at you, delay it and still kick them through. It demoralizes most players.
DB2 - They try to rush you down and are afraid of DF4 so they keep ducking. You bait the ducking and even a jump can get caught in this. You enhance it with armor if there is a risk of being hit. It will be superior to even Sonya's cartwheel.
Boomerangs - This is the bait you bait them with to bait you. You toss a few, learn the recovery frames and be very careful with it, and when you see them inching forwards waiting for a jip, you draw that line in the sand.

 

[GLoRToR]

A quick note on delaying DF4:
You BF3 ALL THE TIME. It makes you green.
DF4 also makes you green. People react on the green color. And even when they learn not to, it's such a fast move in itself that it'll be impossible for them to tell.

 

[Espio]

I'm going to number your bullet points and go over them that way and Glortor offered some useful feedback.

Having trouble with the Kano matchup. I only play online so that probably has something to do with it. Still:
1. Every time I SF'd on reaction to his knife, he could still land a second one as I'm coming out of SF.
2. I had no idea what to do about his F11 pressure.
3. I couldn't get away from him once he was in on me.
4. Kano gets in very easily. Throwing a single boomerang at full screen had me eating either an airball or dealing with immediate pressure after jump-over B112.
5. Some of his normals beat her d3.
6. I was getting crossed over like a bitch and having to deal with all of his mixups. Is there anything less committal than NJP for punishing crossup abuse?
I was glad to see that TaC at least had this at 4-6 at one point, but I want to know what the 5-5ers think about this MU and what you all do in it. STB Espio AestheticLove

I suck at explaining match ups...though I will try my best.


My Kano experience comes from MoshpitPetey and Magicman who were very dedicated Kano mains, I usually went back and forth with them. If Kano's trying to zone with knives, I like to walk back, then throw a boomerang because you're adding distance that gives Jade enough time to get the rang out, while making Kano take longer to get to her. I use this info to establish a pattern and then deviate from it by flashing and walking forward feigning an aggressive attack(which I follow up on sometimes just to keep them on their toes upclose) or walk backward and do nothing to bait and punish cannonballs and other whiffed attacks.

1. When you're flashing, move around a bit too, change up what times you flash and what you do after you flash, whether that's throwing a rang, advancing forward to bait him, go on the offensive or walking back to make him whiff something.


2. That forward 1,1 pressure is neutral on block so you can either beat out his pressure, you have a a slightly faster jab at 9 frames versus back 1 being 12 frames. Down 4 staff grab is good to space the opponent out and put them in good range for an anti air of choice whether that's standing 1, back 2 etc.

Low pokes are an option as well as ex glow to blow up that pressure, pretty handily. As usual mix up how you get out of pressure to avoid glow waste and bait/punish upballs. If you're using 1,2 pressure on block, you can sometimes go into ex glow, that's something I'd like to see Jade players incorproating more is utilizing her neutral on block strings as a launch pad for bullying with ex glow.

3. Well what specifically was the problem with getting him off of you? A little bit more info will help clarify this a bit for me, I apologize.

4. Be patient and mix up how/when you zone him, he'll get in from time to time, but you can reduce it through patience and experience.

5. On that, some normals beat all low pokes, it's just a matter of timing pokes and learning when to counterpoke him and when to wait.

6.Cross ups are dumb online...what I actually like to do sometimes with cross up happy people is shadow kick because either it gets you away from the cross up or in some cases hits the opponent, knocking them down, I don't use this all the time, but it's an option for sure. Ex glow is an option like Glortor said, but you might not always have the meter for it or even want to use it, especially if they're crossing up that much, it might be hard to hit him.


TAC's guide is a bit out of date, I think he actually has it in Jade's favor although don't quote me on that, I still have it as 5-5 as many Jade mainers do, although Jade winning this match up offline isn't out of the question.


I suck at explaining things so again, I apologize if something is unclear, please ask for clarification or correct me.

 

[BillStickers]

Thanks for your help. Regarding my comments about getting him off of me, it was typical Kano shenanigans, f11~choke, d1~choke, f3b2 on knockdown, crossups, etc. My main problem was that he kept hopping right on in, usually by baiting out the b2, dashing out, and jumping in on recovery, then block strings for days. When he saw me let go of block, he would usually neutral duck to bait my 12 then punish with upball. Rinse and repeat until I backed myself into the corner. Another trick he was doing was crossing me up on wakeup to screw up my glow inputs, which had me whiffing a standing 3 and him landing a crossup punch into 40%. lol idk I was definitely outplayed, it just felt like I didn't have anything to make that matchup even, either.

 

[AestheticLove]

STB Espio
BillStickers, i haven't played too many kanos at top level, but it's probably 5-5 but i think Jade has the advantage because she has better tools.
anytime i play a kano it's normally trying to bait an wakeup/ any roll

 

[GLoRToR]

Thanks for your help. Regarding my comments about getting him off of me, it was typical Kano shenanigans, f11~choke, d1~choke, f3b2 on knockdown, crossups, etc. My main problem was that he kept hopping right on in, usually by baiting out the b2, dashing out, and jumping in on recovery, then block strings for days. When he saw me let go of block, he would usually neutral duck to bait my 12 then punish with upball. Rinse and repeat until I backed myself into the corner. Another trick he was doing was crossing me up on wakeup to screw up my glow inputs, which had me whiffing a standing 3 and him landing a crossup punch into 40%. lol idk I was definitely outplayed, it just felt like I didn't have anything to make that matchup even, either.

If you're getting punished for trying to punish, you're being baited. That's how this game works. You figure out what the opponent does and then fk'm'up with it. It took me a while to understand this and I'm still having trouble applying it to every situation. And yeah, jumping is stupid in mk unfortunately. There is such a thing as quickdash and punish but it's hard to pull off. You bait the jump by pretending to do what you usually do, ie d3 for me, and when they jump, you duckdash away and b1 or b2 for full combo. It works and is beautiful. But hard to do.

 

[Espio]

Thanks for your help. Regarding my comments about getting him off of me, it was typical Kano shenanigans, f11~choke, d1~choke, f3b2 on knockdown, crossups, etc. My main problem was that he kept hopping right on in, usually by baiting out the b2, dashing out, and jumping in on recovery, then block strings for days. When he saw me let go of block, he would usually neutral duck to bait my 12 then punish with upball. Rinse and repeat until I backed myself into the corner. Another trick he was doing was crossing me up on wakeup to screw up my glow inputs, which had me whiffing a standing 3 and him landing a crossup punch into 40%. lol idk I was definitely outplayed, it just felt like I didn't have anything to make that matchup even, either.

It sounds like you just need more match up experience , if he does that on knockdown, just block low and then he's at -4 so if he does anything, but block, you get a combo or anti-air into combo of choice if he jumps. If you read jumps, NJP, back 2, or anti-air standing 1 if you can walk back to do so. Those strings and enders you mentioned all leave him im at a small disadvantage.


He's reading your counter attack attempts with glow it sounds like.


If he neutral crouches your 1,2 pressure all the time, knee him in the mouth with standing 4 into staff grab/forward 3 whatever you prefer whether pushing him closer to the corner or if you want to change positions.

STB Espio
BillStickers, i haven't played too many kanos at top level, but it's probably 5-5 but i think Jade has the advantage because she has better tools.
anytime i play a kano it's normally trying to bait an wakeup/ any roll

Jade beating Kano is certainly a possibility, I have it as 5-5 for now, just based on my Kano experience. I'm open to it, but am not quite sure.

 

[GLoRToR]

STB Espio
BillStickers
AestheticLove

Kano feels weaker than Jade, to me. I've never feared Kano and I doubt I'm going to start to worry about him any soon. What the above problem boils down to in my opinion is both lack of matchup experience and BillStickers not being entirely comfortable with Jade just yet. And yes, if you glow too much as your go-to solution, it's going to get baited. Don't automate your reactions but know your tools instead and be variable to keep them guessing. This is advice for myself as well. I tend to become easy to read, yet.

 

[Espio]

Jade should never fear Kano, but she should respect his options and the player behind him, but this applies to any character/player in the grand scheme of things.


At this time, I will just say that it's not a losing match up, that much I am certain of for her.

I actually used to think Kano was a problem when I was new to fighting Kano players like Bill, so I know where he's coming from for sure.


I hate falling into patterns too, but it's just getting to used to what has worked against other oppponents in the past I guess.

 

[GLoRToR]

It's scrubbery to not adapt is all.

 

[Espio]

I agree completely, the same tactics don't always work and if you don't adapt, you cannot expect success.

 

[iutiashev101]

So I picked up Jade two days ago and have been doing pretty well on the Vita scene. It's great to know that practically nobody is familiar with the matchup.

I have some questions particularly to STB Espio since you use Jade in a tag match. What's a good matchup (don't say stryker) for a partner for Jade? I had some tragic experiences against a smoke player (the double parry) so I was think of going to Jax as a partner. Who else is good to fill in Jade's gaps?

 

[Espio]

So I picked up Jade two days ago and have been doing pretty well on the Vita scene. It's great to know that practically nobody is familiar with the matchup.

I have some questions particularly to STB Espio since you use Jade in a tag match. What's a good matchup (don't say stryker) for a partner for Jade? I had some tragic experiences against a smoke player (the double parry) so I was think of going to Jax as a partner. Who else is good to fill in Jade's gaps?

I don't honestly know...I only play Stryker, Jade, and Sheeva well enough to be well versed in their match ups. Maybe a rushdown character for the sake of variety? If you like Jax, play him as you mentioned.



Also, trying to use boomerang set ups against Smoke is an absolute no-no most of the time unless you catch him off guard doing something else.



I wasn't going to suggest Stryker....lol. I don't project my personal tastes onto other players.


I'd also like to add the true test of your Jade will come from people who do know how to fight her, not from those that don't, good luck .

 

[iutiashev101]

I don't honestly know...I only play Stryker, Jade, and Sheeva well enough to be well versed in their match ups. Maybe a rushdown character for the sake of variety? If you like Jax, play him as you mentioned.

Also, trying to use boomerang set ups against Smoke is an absolute no-no most of the time unless you catch him off guard.



I wasn't going to suggest Stryker anyway....lol. I don't project my personal tastes onto other players.


I'd also like to add the true test of your Jade will come from people who do know how to fight her, not from those that don't, good luck .

As an amateur player I keep her as a wild card for the "oh shit" moments. Just another thing I'll throw against PoliceBrutality.

Also, what's a good way to pressure people with Jade? In my case most people get hit immediately by either SO or en low sai (or both, heh). I never have the time to use 34 en SO as a combo starter o.o

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Aren't kano's strings supposed to be interruptable?

Plus Jade can make anyone's strings interruptable with ex flash! lol

 

[Espio]

As an amateur player I keep her as a wild card for the "oh shit" moments. Just another thing I'll throw against PoliceBrutality.

Also, what's a good way to pressure people with Jade? In my case most people get hit immediately by either SO or en low sai (or both, heh). I never have the time to use 34 en SO as a combo starter o.o

Oh this reminds you're that guy that was salty about Stryker lol.

I'll make sure PoliceBrutality is ready for Jade...we play from time to time.


1,2

3

3,4

4, forward 3

2,3, forward 2

ex glow

Some examples of pressure options with Jade...most are neutral or slightly negative. 4, forward 3 is -9, but has major pushback.


Much better detail and there's a video on using ex glow for offensive purposes with visual examples.
http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/espios-jade-video-guide.23462/

Aren't kano's strings supposed to be interruptable?

Plus Jade can make anyone's strings interruptable with ex flash! lol

Everyone has gaps in some of their strings, even Kabal and Kenshi do, but yes Kano is no exception.


Ex glow is deadly for forcing a whiff (and yes I had to change my text to ex glow colors lolol).

 

[iutiashev101]

Oh this reminds you're that guy that was salty about Stryker lol.

I'll make sure PoliceBrutality is ready for Jade...we play from time to time.


1,2

3

3,2

4, forward 3

2,3, forward 2

ex glow

Some examples of pressure options with Jade...most are neutral or slightly negative. 4, forward 3 is -9, but has major pushback.


Much better detail and there's a video on using ex glow for offensive purposes with visual examples.
http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/espios-jade-video-guide.23462/






Everyone has gaps in some of their strings, even Kabal and Kenshi do, but yes Kano is no exception.


Ex glow is deadly for forcing a whiff (and yes I had to change my text to ex glow colors lolol).

Don't play him with jade pls. I want to steal a win from him just onceee...

Yeah I'll try to see what's up with ex glow.

How about b1 ex low sai? I'm pretty carefree with my meter since I haven't tried using glow yet.

 

[Espio]

Don't play him with jade pls. I want to steal a win from him just onceee...

Yeah I'll try to see what's up with ex glow.

How about b1 ex low sai? I'm pretty carefree with my meter since I haven't tried using glow yet.

I already have....it's too late for that.


I corrected the annotation on one of the strings, please go check that out in my above post.


I don't use back 1 ex low rang unless the jump in punch combo connects and it creates enough stun for another jump in punch block string...otherwise I don't use it, not really an ideal way to pressure, just my opinion.

 

[PoliceBrutality]

As an amateur player I keep her as a wild card for the "oh shit" moments. Just another thing I'll throw against PoliceBrutality.

Also, what's a good way to pressure people with Jade? In my case most people get hit immediately by either SO or en low sai (or both, heh). I never have the time to use 34 en SO as a combo starter o.o

Hahaaa! Looks like you are out of luck my friend. I've played STB Espio pain in the ass jade and also STB TakeAChance. These two make me respect jade a whole lot now lol. Im sure you gonna give some problem as well. Just dont abuse glow and shadow kick lol. Well you can abuse glow if you see me spam gunshot hehe. If you have a PS3 I suggest you play Espio to pick up some tips. All Stars Battle Royale is stealing my attention at the moment (im spamming Radec sniper...he is my stryker). Let's get some games soon. I'll point out what you are doing good and wrong with Jade

 

[Espio]

Hahaaa! Looks like you are out of luck my friend. I've played STB Espio pain in the ass jade and also STB TakeAChance. These two make me respect jade a whole lot now lol. Im sure you gonna give some problem as well. Just dont abuse glow and shadow kick lol. Well you can abuse glow if you see me spam gunshot hehe. If you have a PS3 I suggest you play Espio to pick up some tips. All Stars Battle Royale is stealing my attention at the moment (im spamming Radec sniper...he is my stryker). Let's get some games soon. I'll point out what you are doing good and wrong with Jade

Stryker versus Jade= favorite match up <3. It's all about footsies, reads and spacing, one of the most fun and fair matches in the game .


Thanks for the shoutout, Jade deserves respect, one of the fiercest females in MK . We have to play again soon, I picked up Kano too .