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its been 17 months. lets solidify a top 5

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
What is it with people making up quotes? Where did I say she struggles? Where did I say that using meter for a more effective mixup was a struggle? God try less like fishing and more factual arguments. You still haven't answered me on which "very good anti-zoning tool" she has?

But you said his would "lead to lots of damage"? If it's similar damage fair enough then of course Batgirl has the superior vortex, but it's just that you said his "could lead to lots of damage" that I was hesitant.

Ok I understand you're not trying to start anything but I'd like to address something. This is to everyone who's ever misquoted me on that matter, I'm tired of this crap. I don't hate him and I've never uttered those words. I said I disagreed with what he does on stream sometimes and that's different. So leave it. Whether you're trolling, whether you're for some reason serious, you're misquoting me. I do not hate him. Stop with the crap, it's just abuse now since I've told people to stop with it already and have attempted, clearly uselessly, to correct them on the matter. Yes I would like to come over there and play out the BG matchup with you guys and it sucks that I can't but it doesn't mean I hate anyone that does get that opportunity.

G
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I AGREE! If this is supposed to insinuate that I think she's below top 5 I'm gon' kill a bitch.

At least half of her mu chart are 5-5s though...

That's just your opinion, you don't main the character. Just because you don't like fighting a character doesn't make them 7-3 most of the cast. The same way I don't like fighting Nightwing, but I'm not calling him top 5 I'm practising what I can to help in that matchup. Are the numbers you have for BG just Sonic's chart?
Most of them are from sonic fox and panic modes charts, none of them are 'my numbers' like you claim they are.theyre from bg mu charts or what non-bg players say about the bg mu(Which I also need to consider). Your previous arguement is now completely invalid... I'm not implying she 7-3s the whole cast or whatever, I'm just saying her mus are downplayed and she doesn't even beat sinestro overall even though everyone (including me) believes she's top 5.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I believe kabal 7 3s her. But yeah I believe she probably loses less matchups than reptile, but I can't say that for sure because scarlet just wasn't explored as much or represented that much in tournaments. She could have more winning matchups than many thought, maybe more losing.
She loses 4-6 against kabal and cyrax maybe, and that's it, kl and sonya are even.

The skarlet situation is complicated, she plays like a ibuki and batgirl mix, if she gets a knockdown she becomes the best character on than moment because her okizeme is just too good.

In fact since NRS game modeling can be OTG'd at any time they touch the ground, her meaty setups are mostly impossible to avoid, even without taking hit the goal is disabling wakeups 98% of the time which on consequence leads to her countless 50-50 games in combination with her armor.

That is why imo even those mu that are suposely to be heavier at disadvantge for her are incredibly manageable due the fact that she has the best meaty setups in the game as well as the best armor i the game, i noticed is a pretty big deal.
 

Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
She loses 4-6 against kabal and cyrax maybe, and that's it, kl and sonya are even.

The skarlet situation is complicated, she plays like a ibuki and batgirl mix, if she gets a knockdown she becomes the best character on than moment because her okizeme is just too good.

In fact since NRS game modeling can be OTG'd at any time they touch the ground, her meaty setups are mostly impossible to avoid, even without taking hit the goal is disabling wakeups 98% of the time which on consequence leads to her countless 50-50 games in combination with her armor.

That is why imo even those mu that are suposely to be heavier at disadvantge for her are incredibly manageable due the fact that she has the best meaty setups in the game as well as the best armor i the game, i noticed is a pretty big deal.
Sonya and kitana are pretty annoying
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
his worst matchup is sonya (7 3 but that is one of the better 7 3s in the game). I'd say others he loses to are kabal, lao, liu kang, cyrax. I've heard mileena, cage, and scarlet beat him as well but I'm not going to jump the gun that quickly on those matchups.
Cage loses to: kenshi, freddy, kabal, cyrax, sub zero, sonya, and I think that is it. ( I want to say noob possibly but I'd get scolded for that one :p)
Cage destroys noob. Stop it.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
no he doesnt lol. 5 5 if anything. Sonya doesn't beat noob that easily........ smh. How does Sonya only win 6 4 but cage just wrecks him? that doesn't add up
I don't know how sonya fights him but what does noob have to get out of pressure? His d3 doesn't lead to anything on standing hit so cage can just poke him back. Noob has to do another d3 to catch him crouching to get anything going. Effectively making it so that noob has to guess twice to get out of cage pressure. It isn't like noob can really zone cage out very well either. Cage also outdamages him, and because noob does absolutely no damage cage rarely has to break, leaving him meter to ex nut out of the corner (where noob admittedly does well) or even ex shadow kick through zoning to start pushing towards the corner.

Edit: This one of my most played matchups thanks to Ermacio but if there's something we are missing, please enlighten me good sir :)
 
I don't know how sonya fights him but what does noob have to get out of pressure? His d3 doesn't lead to anything on standing hit so cage can just poke him back. Noob has to do another d3 to catch him crouching to get anything going. Effectively making it so that noob has to guess twice to get out of cage pressure. It isn't like noob can really zone cage out very well either. Cage also outdamages him, and because noob does absolutely no damage cage rarely has to break, leaving him meter to ex nut out of the corner (where noob admittedly does well) or even ex shadow kick through zoning to start pushing towards the corner.

Edit: This one of my most played matchups thanks to Ermacio but if there's something we are missing, please enlighten me good sir :)
Oh I have ran this match multiple times sir, I am the master of the cast :), basically noob hella zones cage snd cage will need a read to close the gap. If cage messes up, he could get grabbed and set across the screen, hit by an upknee, etc. Only reason noob doesn't win is his lack of armor, other than that, it is fairly even. It is like sub zero, but no ice clone to really annoy cage. This is my opinion tho (which I have had for a while on this matchup). This is why nrs games need more time, we still can't agree on matchups :p
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Oh I have ran this match multiple times sir, I am the master of the cast :), basically noob hella zones cage snd cage will need a read to close the gap. If cage messes up, he could get grabbed and set across the screen, hit by an upknee, etc. Only reason noob doesn't win is his lack of armor, other than that, it is fairly even. It is like sub zero, but no ice clone to really annoy cage. This is my opinion tho (which I have had for a while on this matchup). This is why nrs games need more time, we still can't agree on matchups :p
How does he really zone him out? Cage can just dash block in really. He has to stop throwing stuff as cage gets closer to footsies range because his projectiles are so negative on block. Plus like I said, cage almost always can save meter to armor on reaction. Once cage gets into footsies range noob is at a heavy disadvantage, and obviously if cage gets his blockstrings going or gets a hit noob is in serious trouble.
 
How does he really zone him out? Cage can just dash block in really. He has to stop throwing stuff as cage gets closer to footsies range because his projectiles are so negative on block. Plus like I said, cage almost always can save meter to armor on reaction. Once cage gets into footsies range noob is at a heavy disadvantage, and obviously if cage gets his blockstrings going or gets a hit noob is in serious trouble.
we will agree to disagree, but I will never change my opinion on that matchup tbh.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Most of them are from sonic fox and panic modes charts, none of them are 'my numbers' like you claim they are.theyre from bg mu charts or what non-bg players say about the bg mu(Which I also need to consider). Your previous arguement is now completely invalid... I'm not implying she 7-3s the whole cast or whatever, I'm just saying her mus are downplayed and she doesn't even beat sinestro overall even though everyone (including me) believes she's top 5.
I think you might have Pan1c's old chart, his most up to date one is in this thread along with most of the rest of the BG community's. When I said 'your numbers' I meant the numbers from your image... you can say her matchups are downplayed all you want, you're entitled to your opinion, but you don't play the character so consider that when saying things like that. I don't think anyone disputes she's top 5 and people say Sinestro is below top 5 so the charts you're looking at must be outdated or something or the method you've used to calculate tier placement is off in some way.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Sonya and kitana are pretty annoying
Depend, there is countless way to play Skarlet indeed that has been proven, however there is only one way to guarantee success while playing her in every area.

A lot of ppl have tried to describe Skarlet as a Rushdown character, that can play average zoning and has good footies, so most of Skarlet players either throws a lot of daggers or perform lots of red dashes hoping to threat the opponent with mixups, its not a bad idea, the problem is that the mixup at situations like these isn't there, so dealing with Kitana that is really good at zoning or sonya that is a rushdown may become annoying.

I have lost against Russel's Kitana back then because i was trying to chase him and trying to trade daggers with Fans something i realized later that isin't something i should do on that MU, among the time of experience i got with her during all these years, in the later when i was at the top shape i realized that:

The most deadly skarlet is the one that will walk up back and forth without doing red dashes at all or randomly throwing daggers at all, because her neutral game is the core and the source of all other strenghts of hers it becomes particular hard to read or deal with whatever her next option will be.
 

daddydab32ho

KANO, KANO, KAY-NOOOOOO , KANO (DRAKES VOICE)
Who is the other top tier that demolishes him? I don't even think Cowboy has MMH as 3-7 anymore.

Sinestro gets bodied by Aqua but does well against Zod. LBSH asking for more than that is top 3 worthy.
MMH vs SIN has got to be a 7-3 MMH can do w.e he wants and takes risks with little consequence but sinestro has to take risks with huge consequences!!! But I feel at the highest level it could be 6-4 MMH!
 
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16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
MMH vs SIN has got to be a 7-3 MMH can do w.e he wants and takes risks with little consequence but sinestro has to take risks with huge consequences!!! But I feel at the highest lever it could be 6-4 MMH!

Don't let Cowboy see this. He will use it as downplaying ammo.
 

daddydab32ho

KANO, KANO, KAY-NOOOOOO , KANO (DRAKES VOICE)
Oh I have ran this match multiple times sir, I am the master of the cast :), basically noob hella zones cage snd cage will need a read to close the gap. If cage messes up, he could get grabbed and set across the screen, hit by an upknee, etc. Only reason noob doesn't win is his lack of armor, other than that, it is fairly even. It is like sub zero, but no ice clone to really annoy cage. This is my opinion tho (which I have had for a while on this matchup). This is why nrs games need more time, we still can't agree on matchups :p
YEAAAAAAP that the Truth Truth!!!! Lol and that's coming from experience with that dirty Flawed!!!!!
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
I think you might have Pan1c's old chart, his most up to date one is in this thread along with most of the rest of the BG community's. When I said 'your numbers' I meant the numbers from your image... you can say her matchups are downplayed all you want, you're entitled to your opinion, but you don't play the character so consider that when saying things like that. I don't think anyone disputes she's top 5 and people say Sinestro is below top 5 so the charts you're looking at must be outdated or something or the method you've used to calculate tier placement is off in some way.
I think sinestro is actually very underrated, he has several 7-3 mus and and does well against a solid portion of the cast. His zoning is very powerful and a position at 6-10 is suitable for him. Same as death stroke but to a lesser extent(11-15)