If you could balance patch MK9, what would you do? (NRS PLEASE READ!!!)

[Mr. Mileena]

I'm not saying to remove the Wake-Ups. Like I said, I understand the need for an escape route. I'm just saying that if they want full invincibility, they need to pay a price for it. That goes for every character in the game, not just a select few.

You could also bait the Wake-Ups and punish them, that is true. But do you think a smart player will be likely to fall for bait?

So I just got done being dealt a 45% combo by sonya, get knocked down by her f+1, then I have to spend 1 bar, thus not having breaker or close to breaker anymore, and if you bait my wakeup (which i wasted 1 bar to do), im going to eat another 45% combo and then die with her reset chip damage.

??? No god no

 

[rev0lver]

As far as the wakeups go, this is my problem with it - in MK9, you have some characters who have a really difficult time getting out of pressure, because they're zoning/spacing characters. One of the whole points of wakeups, as it seems to me, is to prevent mk from being completely rushdown-oriented. The way the system is now keeps it balanced.

 

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

Snip

Sub Zero - bullshit. Clone set duration is WAAAAY to short. 3 sec in between. One reason why Sub mirrors are a snore fest.
Reptile - offline Elbow Dash is HARDLY jab punishable. Where as Kabal's Nomad Dash on block is full combo punishable by all characters in the game off of most normals.
Kitana - fuck kitana lol
Cage - disagree
Kabal - disagree
Sheeva - SHE NEEDS IT!

 

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

If you want kitana's otg gone, Sonya's 4 otg's, Jade's 4, 3, 12, d3, d4, otg's off a b2, nightwolf's f3 otgs, sindel's fireballs otg, skarlets down knives otg, etc, either keep them all or eliminate them all.

Good get rid of them all IMO

No HIGH should ever OTG in any fighting game ever.

 

[RTM2004]

Another thing I would protest about is the jump-punch. Why exactly does it link into combos off a hit for higher damage scaling rather than a lower one? That's ridiculous. A better route to go would be for the jump-punch to either result in lower damage since all characters share this move, or just make it not link at all. But that's just me.

Also cross ups, especially online abusers, jip and cross ups should not be overheads in general against crouchers.

Just sayin'

*gets flamed*

 

[GamerBlake90]

So I just got done being dealt a 45% combo by sonya, get knocked down by her f+1, then I have to spend 1 bar, thus not having breaker or close to breaker anymore, and if you bait my wakeup (which i wasted 1 bar to do), im going to eat another 45% combo and then die with her reset chip damage.

??? No god no

You're too smart a player to fall for Wake-Ups being baited, LOL.

I guess I see where you're coming from, but what about when their Wake-Ups work consistently but yours will not?

 

[Enenra]

Sub Zero - bullshit. Clone set duration is WAAAAY to short. 3 sec in between. One reason why Sub mirrors are a snore fest.
Reptile - offline Elbow Dash is HARDLY jab punishable. Where as Kabal's Nomad Dash on block is full combo punishable by all characters in the game off of most normals.
Kitana - fuck kitana lol
Cage - disagree
Kabal - disagree
Sheeva - SHE NEEDS IT!

Dude, Sub isn't top 10 leave him alone with the tools he has please ;__;

 

[Playpal]

I don't understand the problem with wake up attacks. What's wrong with it? All you rushdown junkies don't like having to respect your opponent's wake up? Invincibility on wake up attacks adds more depth to this game. People like JC and KL would dominate in the corner given their infinite throw setups. Ex wake up attacks already have extra invincibility frames. Characters like Sektor and Sindel are pretty much forced to use meter on wake up anyways.

Increase recovery on D3s so they recover like D1s (not saying reduce hit advantage or make it more punishable on block). D3 pressure in this game is ridiculous.

Also make JC's f3 -10 and make standing 2 mid lol.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Also cross ups, especially online abusers, jip and cross ups should not be overheads in general against crouchers.

Just sayin'

*gets flamed*

LOL, good call, I forgot to add this one.

 

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

AU_IM_DIGIMON Am I the only one who thinks that NRS should've let Sub-Zero keep his Ice Puddle reset? I mean, it cost meter to do it. lol

Yes.

 

[rev0lver]

Sub Zero - bullshit. Clone set duration is WAAAAY to short. 3 sec in between. One reason why Sub mirrors are a snore fest.
Reptile - offline Elbow Dash is HARDLY jab punishable. Where as Kabal's Nomad Dash on block is full combo punishable by all

Sub - Increasing the clone set duration would leave him completely free to attacks at some points during matches. He's far from broken, I really think if you nerf any chars that aren't top tier or have obvious problems (i.e. hitbox issues) you risk a lot.

Reptile - I disagree. I only have a 4 frame window to punish but offline I can get it about 95% of the time. If you're having a problem punishing I don't think it's the game's problem. HOWEVER I will say that ex dash should be as punishable as regular dash.

 

[GamerBlake90]

I don't understand the problem with wake up attacks. What's wrong with it? All you rushdown junkies don't like having to respect your opponent's wake up? Invincibility on wake up attacks adds more depth to this game. People like JC and KL would dominate in the corner given their infinite throw setups. Ex wake up attacks already have extra invincibility frames. Characters like Sektor and Sindel are pretty much forced to use meter on wake up anyways

Reread my first post in this thread about the Wake-Ups.

 

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

So I just got done being dealt a 45% combo by sonya, get knocked down by her f+1, then I have to spend 1 bar, thus not having breaker or close to breaker anymore, and if you bait my wakeup (which i wasted 1 bar to do), im going to eat another 45% combo and then die with her reset chip damage.

??? No god no

Liked because...

YES GOD YES!

I wouldn't give a shit if NRS had to reroute the ENTIRE game's damage output.

Free wake ups are DUMB! They ruin momentum and make knowdowns meaningless.

Hell every character in the game should have a Cage nutpunch then, fuck it.

 

[RTM2004]

Jade

- u+3 does more damage

- u+3 hits mid (from 1.04)


Sheeva

- Can dash cancel Ground Stomp

- EX Teleport Stomp has armor through out the entire animation

- f+4 NOW BECOMES A NEW SPECIAL MOVE... "The Boot" (f,f+4) . New special move can be 2 in 1'ed from normals/special normals. And Enhanced version of "The Boot" has one hit armor.

I agree with Jade plus she needs her original damage restored. With Sheeva, she needs to be able to Ex Low Grab ALL crouched hitboxes including Sonya/Mileena's D4. Sheeva's F4 should be a direct overhead like Jax's F3 (I think).

 

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

Also cross ups, especially online abusers, jip and cross ups should not be overheads in general against crouchers.

Just sayin'

*gets flamed*

100% DISLIKE!!!

 

[RTM2004]

100% DISLIKE!!!

Deep/Crossover Jump Kick~D1/D4~Special

 

[Faded Dreams V]

Before they gave Wake-ups invincibility frames, I used to blow people up with Kenshi for even attempting them. F3 stuffed most teleports, and his regular Spirit Charge was just fucked up.

 

[Playpal]

Don't take this the wrong way, guys. But I completely agree with DIGIMON here.

I too find the concept of invincible Wake-Ups absolutely stupid, especially if they don't cost meter. It gets worse when your opponent's Wake-Ups will work against you every time, but when you try it yourself, the move either doesn't register or it works but you don't get your invincibility, resulting in you getting attacked out of the move. Too one-sided here.

If your wake up attack doesn't work, whose fault is that? If you keep falling for your opponent's wake up attacks, whose fault is it again?

Wake up attacks add another more complex aspect to this game. Many characters have shit wake up attacks (Kitana, smoke), many characters have shit no-meter wake up attacks (nightwolf, liu kang, sonya), characters have invincible, yet punishable wake up attacks (jc, sz, raiden, reptile) and there are characters that have safe on-block, invincible wake up attacks (can't think of one off the top of my head). This causes you to play MUs differently. Besides, not like wake up attacks render tech rolls, delayed wake up and delayed tech roll useless.

I want to be able to maintain pressure off a knockdown. I can understand why the Wake-Ups would exist as an escape route, but they should only be invincible with meter to even things out. You don't see specials outside of Wake-Ups having invincibility without meter, so why should it be any different here?

I want to keep wake up attacks the way they are. Agree to disagree.

 

[GamerBlake90]

If your wake up attack doesn't work, whose fault is that? If you keep falling for your opponent's wake up attacks, whose fault is it again?

Wake up attacks add another more complex aspect to this game. Many characters have shit wake up attacks (Kitana, smoke), many characters have shit no-meter wake up attacks (nightwolf, liu kang, sonya), characters have invincible, yet punishable wake up attacks (jc, sz, raiden, reptile) and there are characters that have safe on-block, invincible wake up attacks (can't think of one off the top of my head). This causes you to play MUs differently. Besides, not like wake up attacks render tech rolls, delayed wake up and delayed tech roll useless.



I want to keep wake up attacks the way they are. Agree to disagree.

Fine, we can agree to disagree. One big problem is that (link me to a source if I'm wrong on this) the exact timing for being able to gain invincibility off of Wake-Ups was never accurately pointed out. I know you do it off a knockdown, but I don't know the exact moment when to do it.

 

[Maxter]

we the people must help make this happen and also give some tips to help digimon fix this game,
I'll help a little bit with cyrax to make this cyborg a better character to beat.

Cyrax:

-Net size should be reduced by half and speed decreased so it can be easier to jump and punish on reaction.
-Cyrax can only have one bomb on the screen, so opponents don't step on one of these by mistake.
-Nets can't be be thrown if one bomb is on the screen, this will help to avoid being hit by any of these.
-Frame advantage on f2 should be reduce to neutral, and start up will be increased by 24 more frames.
-Air grab jump distance slightly reduced and 10 more frames added to start up.
-cyber beatdown AKA "command grab" will have 20 more frames added to start up and if they get you with it, you have 35 more frames to tech out of it, and if you don't tech out of it, don't worry there will be no stagger, because this move will be -15 on hit.
-Reverse kick won't advance forward, and will be -7 on block.
-Buzzsaw will go back to patch 1.02, that means 30 more recovery frames on block, and it wont hit overhead, also it can be avoided by crouching.
-Ex bombs will push opponents to the other side of the screen so high damage combos can't be landed.
-Ex Ragdoll won't hit low and 25 recovery frames added.
-Following Changes on the match intro will be applied: cyrax will say safeties enable doggy style mode engaged, will bend his knees and say you can rape my yellow sorry ass now.

If you need help trying to balance any other characters let me know, i have a list of changes this game need for more fun and balance, good night folks

 

[Espio]

Sheeva needs a damage buff, why in the world is the slowest characters in the game, who happen to be a powerhouse grappler have one of the lowest damage outputs in the game? Her low grab is far too situational to be factored into her standard bnb damage with combos such as 1,2 back 1, 4, grab n punch and 2,1,2,forward 1 grab n punch. Kitana and Cyrax get over 50% with one bar, yet Sheeva off of her standard bnb's struggle to break 40% off of one bar, she needs a jump in punch to get up there.

Compensate characters for their weaknesses is all I'm saying.

A speedy, small character's damage output should not be greater than a giant, slow, powerhouse grappler, that doesn't even make sense for balance or in real life.

 

[RTM2004]

Reptile - I disagree. I only have a 4 frame window to punish but offline I can get it about 95% of the time. If you're having a problem punishing I don't think it's the game's problem. HOWEVER I will say that ex dash should be as punishable as regular dash.

You can jump out of Reptile's Ex Dash, I saw CD Jr jumped out and angled his Jump Kick~Air Grab Reptile from it. This could be a very useful technique for Kitana players, Jump Kick~Fan Toss 40% combo punisher since MOST Kitana players struggle hard against Reptile's fast speed too fast for her to keep up with up close.

 

[rev0lver]

You can jump out of Reptile's Ex Dash, I saw CD Jr jumped out and angled his Jump Kick~Air Grab Reptile from it. This could be a very useful technique for Kitana players, Jump Kick~Fan Toss 40% combo punisher since MOST Kitana players struggle hard against Reptile's fast speed too fast for her to keep up with up close.

Yeah you can jump over it... as you can almost every attack in this game. The point is just that it shouldn't be a free way out of the corner or anything like that.

 

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

Sheeva needs a damage buff, why in the world is the slowest characters in the game, who happen to be a powerhouse grappler have one of the lowest damage outputs in the game? Her low grab is far too situational to be factored into her standard bnb damage with combos such as 1,2 back 1, 4, grab n punch and 2,1,2,forward 1 grab n punch. Kitana and Cyrax get over 50% with one bar, yet Sheeva off of her standard bnb's struggle to break 40% off of one bar, she needs a jump in punch to get up there.

Compensate characters for their weaknesses is all I'm saying.

A speedy, small character's damage output should not be greater than a giant, slow, powerhouse grappler, that doesn't even make sense for balance or in real life.

100% THIS

But also if wake ups were "dealt with" and Sheeva's BnB combos hit appropriately vs all characters. And Sheeva's universal attacks didn't fucking WHIFF against crouching opponents (which is the dumbest shit ever)....

Then sheeva would be fine.

Especially coupled with changes I mentioned in the OP.

I honestly believe the damage output for most characters in MK9 is kinda wonky. But it is what it is I suppose....that needs to be addressed too imo.

 

[RTM2004]

Yeah you can jump over it... as you can almost every attack in this game. The point is just that it shouldn't be a free way out of the corner or anything like that.

Yeah it's irritating if it hits you because he can add his Slide for an easy 23% 1 meter bar spent.