StevoSuprem0
I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
"I think you underestimate me!" ...it's like NRS knew....
Joker Matchup Discussion Thread
With the game and meta having evolved a lot since some of the older threads were made, I figured it's about time we make something a bit more relevant and really flesh out some of the matchups that we either disagree on or are simply uncertain of. I don't want this to be another match-up chart with numbers and an oversimplified sentence description, so I'm gonna throw MU charts for some of us at the bottom and we'll dedicate the bulk of the discussion to character-specific tech and how to deal with various situations that arise in these fights. Anyone interested in peoples matchup charts, feel free to check them out and comment.
Let's face it, we're all playing people at different levels and with different playstyles with their respective characters, and these things guide our opinion of matchups and which way the advantage goes. Generally, we talk about these things by laying out match-up charts, assigning numbers to things, and then argue whether a 5 is a 5, a 5.5, a 6, or a 2, and we get lost in the minutia instead of really breaking down the matchups. This is stupid. To avoid this, I'm gonna suggest a bit of a different format than we usually see in these forums. We'll walk through each character individually and spend a few days (you know, because we have lives and stuff) discussing matchup, the neutral game, how to punish pertinent situations, deal with zoning/spacing, character specific tech, etc. We'll go really in-depth and try to figure out where any disagreement stems from, and once we've come to a general consensus, I'll sum it up and add it to the OP with a synopsis for each character. Throughout the process, I'm gonna suggest we also tag other people in the community who are adept with the characters being discussed (well known players, sparing partners, etc) to contribute to the discussion.
Here are the matchup charts of some of the notable Joker players that shared their opinions at the onset of this thread, as well as the average across everyone and the standard deviation (which I'm using to identify the matches that we least agree on so that we can prioritize discussion on those).
Average
Variance/Deviation/Disagreement (in order of most contentious)
So let's get to work! And remember, @Qwark28 only SOUNDS like a douche... usually...
@Gilbagz
@Fromundaman
@AL Eevee
@Vengeance135
@oNe87_Kentucky
@The_PantyChrist
@OnlineRon91
@Notez4
@EMP Dark
@EMPR_FEAR
@ThaShiveGeek
@BrianTheBEAST
@rehti
@Rathalos - sticky please!
Old Threads for reference:
http://testyourmight.com/threads/joker-matchup-discussion.29838/
Joker Matchup Discussion Thread
With the game and meta having evolved a lot since some of the older threads were made, I figured it's about time we make something a bit more relevant and really flesh out some of the matchups that we either disagree on or are simply uncertain of. I don't want this to be another match-up chart with numbers and an oversimplified sentence description, so I'm gonna throw MU charts for some of us at the bottom and we'll dedicate the bulk of the discussion to character-specific tech and how to deal with various situations that arise in these fights. Anyone interested in peoples matchup charts, feel free to check them out and comment.
Let's face it, we're all playing people at different levels and with different playstyles with their respective characters, and these things guide our opinion of matchups and which way the advantage goes. Generally, we talk about these things by laying out match-up charts, assigning numbers to things, and then argue whether a 5 is a 5, a 5.5, a 6, or a 2, and we get lost in the minutia instead of really breaking down the matchups. This is stupid. To avoid this, I'm gonna suggest a bit of a different format than we usually see in these forums. We'll walk through each character individually and spend a few days (you know, because we have lives and stuff) discussing matchup, the neutral game, how to punish pertinent situations, deal with zoning/spacing, character specific tech, etc. We'll go really in-depth and try to figure out where any disagreement stems from, and once we've come to a general consensus, I'll sum it up and add it to the OP with a synopsis for each character. Throughout the process, I'm gonna suggest we also tag other people in the community who are adept with the characters being discussed (well known players, sparing partners, etc) to contribute to the discussion.
Here are the matchup charts of some of the notable Joker players that shared their opinions at the onset of this thread, as well as the average across everyone and the standard deviation (which I'm using to identify the matches that we least agree on so that we can prioritize discussion on those).
After Averaging:
Average
Aquaman------------- 4 - 6
Ares------------------- 4 - 6
Bane------------------ 4.5 - 5.5
Batgirl---------------- 4.5 - 5.5
Batman--------------- 4 - 6
Black Adam---------- 4.5 - 5.5
Catwoman----------- 4.5 - 5.5
Cyborg---------------- 6.5 - 3.5
Deathstroke--------- 4 - 6
Doomsday----------- 4 - 6
Flash------------------ 3 - 7
Green Arrow--------- 4.5 - 5.5
Green Lantern------- 4 - 6
Harley Quinn-------- 5 - 5
Hawkgirl-------------- 4 - 6
Killer Frost----------- 4.5 - 5.5
Lex Luthor------------ 5.5 - 4.5
Lobo------------------ 5 - 5
Martian Manhunter 4 - 6
Nightwing------------ 5 - 5
Raven----------------- 4.5 - 5.5
Scorpion-------------- 6 - 4
Shazam--------------- 5 - 5
Sinestro-------------- 3.5 - 6.5
Solomon Grundy---- 4.5 - 5.5
Superman------------ 4.5 - 5.5
Wonder Woman---- 4 - 6
Zatanna--------------- 4 - 6
Zod-------------------- 3.5 - 6.5
Advantage MUs 3
Even MUs 13
Disadvantage MUs 13
***I'm calling 4.5-5.5 even matchups for now because they are super close to even and the numbers are a little skewed due to the sample sizes and how I rounded the averages!
Ares------------------- 4 - 6
Bane------------------ 4.5 - 5.5
Batgirl---------------- 4.5 - 5.5
Batman--------------- 4 - 6
Black Adam---------- 4.5 - 5.5
Catwoman----------- 4.5 - 5.5
Cyborg---------------- 6.5 - 3.5
Deathstroke--------- 4 - 6
Doomsday----------- 4 - 6
Flash------------------ 3 - 7
Green Arrow--------- 4.5 - 5.5
Green Lantern------- 4 - 6
Harley Quinn-------- 5 - 5
Hawkgirl-------------- 4 - 6
Killer Frost----------- 4.5 - 5.5
Lex Luthor------------ 5.5 - 4.5
Lobo------------------ 5 - 5
Martian Manhunter 4 - 6
Nightwing------------ 5 - 5
Raven----------------- 4.5 - 5.5
Scorpion-------------- 6 - 4
Shazam--------------- 5 - 5
Sinestro-------------- 3.5 - 6.5
Solomon Grundy---- 4.5 - 5.5
Superman------------ 4.5 - 5.5
Wonder Woman---- 4 - 6
Zatanna--------------- 4 - 6
Zod-------------------- 3.5 - 6.5
Advantage MUs 3
Even MUs 13
Disadvantage MUs 13
***I'm calling 4.5-5.5 even matchups for now because they are super close to even and the numbers are a little skewed due to the sample sizes and how I rounded the averages!
Zod-------------------- 1.52
Solomon Grundy---- 0.95
Hawkgirl-------------- 0.89
Martian Manhunter 0.84
Cyborg---------------- 0.82
Green Arrow--------- 0.82
Aquaman------------- 0.8
Catwoman----------- 0.75
Nightwing------------ 0.63
Bane------------------ 0.61
Sinestro-------------- 0.58
Raven----------------- 0.55
Lex Luthor------------ 0.55
Batgirl---------------- 0.52
Black Adam---------- 0.52
Killer Frost----------- 0.52
Superman------------ 0.52
Wonder Woman---- 0.5
Lobo------------------ 0.45
Shazam--------------- 0.45
Harley Quinn-------- 0.41
Scorpion-------------- 0.41
Deathstroke--------- 0.41
Zatanna--------------- 0.41
Flash------------------ 0.2
Batman--------------- 0.2
Doomsday----------- 0.2
Green Lantern------- 0.2
Ares------------------- 0
Solomon Grundy---- 0.95
Hawkgirl-------------- 0.89
Martian Manhunter 0.84
Cyborg---------------- 0.82
Green Arrow--------- 0.82
Aquaman------------- 0.8
Catwoman----------- 0.75
Nightwing------------ 0.63
Bane------------------ 0.61
Sinestro-------------- 0.58
Raven----------------- 0.55
Lex Luthor------------ 0.55
Batgirl---------------- 0.52
Black Adam---------- 0.52
Killer Frost----------- 0.52
Superman------------ 0.52
Wonder Woman---- 0.5
Lobo------------------ 0.45
Shazam--------------- 0.45
Harley Quinn-------- 0.41
Scorpion-------------- 0.41
Deathstroke--------- 0.41
Zatanna--------------- 0.41
Flash------------------ 0.2
Batman--------------- 0.2
Doomsday----------- 0.2
Green Lantern------- 0.2
Ares------------------- 0
So let's get to work! And remember, @Qwark28 only SOUNDS like a douche... usually...
@Gilbagz
@Fromundaman
@AL Eevee
@Vengeance135
@oNe87_Kentucky
@The_PantyChrist
@OnlineRon91
@Notez4
@EMP Dark
@EMPR_FEAR
@ThaShiveGeek
@BrianTheBEAST
@rehti
@Rathalos - sticky please!
Old Threads for reference:
http://testyourmight.com/threads/joker-matchup-discussion.29838/
