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Match-Up Discussion - Johnny Cage I Need Serious Help With the Kotal Kahn Matchup.

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
So guys, if you ever talk to me/watch me play, you may know that I get absolutely BODIED by Kotal Kahn.

I'm asking if some serious Kotal Kahn players would mind teaching me the matchup, and have footage on it that really shows what Johnny can do.

I'd prefer to see Stunt Double but a-list will work too.

Thanks.
@Rampage254
@Qwark28
@Mr Aquaman
@GGA Fill Pops

I'm absolutely down to play, on any platform, (except vs you @Qwark28 lol Atlantic ocean).
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
I USED TO PLAY AGAINST KOTAL EVERYDAY, GETTING MOPPED UP BY A SUPPOSEDLY BAD CHARACTER!!!! THEN HE GETS BUFFED TO OBLIVION AND THESE KOTAL PLAYERS CONTINUE TO DOWNPLAY?? LIKE NOW....... I'M FUCKING MAD!!!!!
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I USED TO PLAY AGAINST KOTAL EVERYDAY, GETTING MOPPED UP BY A SUPPOSEDLY BAD CHARACTER!!!! THEN HE GETS BUFFED TO OBLIVION AND THESE KOTAL PLAYERS CONTINUE TO DOWNPLAY?? LIKE NOW....... I'M FUCKING MAD!!!!!
War god was mid.
 

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Which variation
All variations, I definitely struggle with war god more than others but, Its definitely the footsie game that I have the most problems with. He has god like tools and covers a lot of ground in literally a blink of an eye.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
All variations, I definitely struggle with war god more than others but, Its definitely the footsie game that I have the most problems with. He has god like tools and covers a lot of ground in literally a blink of an eye.
You can nutcrack through every sword but the overhead, it's a 50-50 way in your favor. Get hit by the overhead and you get sent back and roll, block it and he dies. Same thing with low if you expect the overhead, definitely practice your punishes to be 100% consistent.

In any string, always block low the second hit and high the rest, he can only go low or overhead and it's always the second hit that's low and last that's overhead as a rule of thumb.

There's a particular range slightly closer than 3/4 where throwing F2 is uncomfortable because of the slow startup, find that range and you force Kotal to B1/F1.

Learn the F2 punish, IIRC cage punishes pretty good, look up the F2 punish thread in the kotal forums.

Prepatch it was difficult for kotal to catch you when you disrespected his + frames because he didn't have anything safe to blow you up with. B1 alone is not a real punish, B12 is punishable, B122 as well, F1 wasn't a punish, F12 and F1B2 were punishable as well.

Now F12 is safe. VS war god you still go through hoops because he can do things like B12 derp swords.

In the footsie range you just accept that he has super fast movement but they're all 1 hit unless he wants to risk going with something unsafe in order to throw out something that hurts, outside of traditional footsie range he has F2 for that.

But if he wants to open you up he has 0 way without exposing himself. All the swords are punishable on block except the slow one, his low F3 is unsafe, his B2 is reactable with armour etc.

I think the proper way to play war god is punishing things on reaction with the ex overhead, so don't jump, don't throw slow projectiles or anything of that sort.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
You can nutcrack through every sword but the overhead, it's a 50-50 way in your favor. Get hit by the overhead and you get sent back and roll, block it and he dies. Same thing with low if you expect the overhead, definitely practice your punishes to be 100% consistent.

In any string, always block low the second hit and high the rest, he can only go low or overhead and it's always the second hit that's low and last that's overhead as a rule of thumb.

There's a particular range slightly closer than 3/4 where throwing F2 is uncomfortable because of the slow startup, find that range and you force Kotal to B1/F1.

Learn the F2 punish, IIRC cage punishes pretty good, look up the F2 punish thread in the kotal forums.

Prepatch it was difficult for kotal to catch you when you disrespected his + frames because he didn't have anything safe to blow you up with. B1 alone is not a real punish, B12 is punishable, B122 as well, F1 wasn't a punish, F12 and F1B2 were punishable as well.

Now F12 is safe. VS war god you still go through hoops because he can do things like B12 derp swords.

In the footsie range you just accept that he has super fast movement but they're all 1 hit unless he wants to risk going with something unsafe in order to throw out something that hurts, outside of traditional footsie range he has F2 for that.

But if he wants to open you up he has 0 way without exposing himself. All the swords are punishable on block except the slow one, his low F3 is unsafe, his B2 is reactable with armour etc.

I think the proper way to play war god is punishing things on reaction with the ex overhead, so don't jump, don't throw slow projectiles or anything of that sort.
Does the Kotal army get together and go, "That Johnny Cage cant anti air worth a shit, let's just Ji1 from full screen all damn day!"? I feel like that's what's going on over there.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
F1B2 on block gives a free ex nut punch that I believe kotal can't do anything about, so that's cool
You just made me find a bug. Sometimes sun ray appears to push back kotal after a F1B2

And F1B2 into ex DF2 beats nutcracker.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Does the Kotal army get together and go, "That Johnny Cage cant anti air worth a shit, let's just Ji1 from full screen all damn day!"? I feel like that's what's going on over there.
Yeah, J1 is super good and super deceiving, like zangiefs superman punch.
 

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
You can nutcrack through every sword but the overhead, it's a 50-50 way in your favor. Get hit by the overhead and you get sent back and roll, block it and he dies. Same thing with low if you expect the overhead, definitely practice your punishes to be 100% consistent.

In any string, always block low the second hit and high the rest, he can only go low or overhead and it's always the second hit that's low and last that's overhead as a rule of thumb.

There's a particular range slightly closer than 3/4 where throwing F2 is uncomfortable because of the slow startup, find that range and you force Kotal to B1/F1.

Learn the F2 punish, IIRC cage punishes pretty good, look up the F2 punish thread in the kotal forums.

Prepatch it was difficult for kotal to catch you when you disrespected his + frames because he didn't have anything safe to blow you up with. B1 alone is not a real punish, B12 is punishable, B122 as well, F1 wasn't a punish, F12 and F1B2 were punishable as well.

Now F12 is safe. VS war god you still go through hoops because he can do things like B12 derp swords.

In the footsie range you just accept that he has super fast movement but they're all 1 hit unless he wants to risk going with something unsafe in order to throw out something that hurts, outside of traditional footsie range he has F2 for that.

But if he wants to open you up he has 0 way without exposing himself. All the swords are punishable on block except the slow one, his low F3 is unsafe, his B2 is reactable with armour etc.

I think the proper way to play war god is punishing things on reaction with the ex overhead, so don't jump, don't throw slow projectiles or anything of that sort.

I feel that when I play against good Kotals though, they space themselves to a point where even f3 whiffs, this is a huge issue for me to wrap my head around.

I will take notes on this thanks

And thanks @GGA Dizzy thats good shit.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
You just made me find a bug. Sometimes sun ray appears to push back kotal after a F1B2

And F1B2 into ex DF2 beats nutcracker.
EX df2 being the safe mid sword in war god?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I feel that when I play against good Kotals though, they space themselves to a point where even f3 whiffs, this is a huge issue for me to wrap my head around.

I will take notes on this thanks

And thanks @GGA Dizzy thats good shit.
That's purely player vs player, his back walk speed is Abysmal -TM.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Give them props for doing a sun ray and being pushed out of nutcracker range because that happens really rarely and takes balls to do.
Nah. Anything involving sun ray awards no props. Already lost all props rights regarding sun ray from kotal players doing it at the start of the round and demanding props for first hit bonus.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Nah. Anything involving sun ray awards no props. Already lost all props rights regarding sun ray from kotal players doing it at the start of the round and demanding props for first hit bonus.
Then go back to raiden and blot out the sun.

Temporarily, until it expires.
 

lemmywinks

losing record
Indeed a tough matchup. Kotal seems beat me to the punch with his quick pokes and strings that it's hard to get anything going.